if output is for Film *AND* TV broadcast, what to do?

justmarvin

justmarvin

Well-known member
Ok, i shot footage on a dvx100b, 24P standard.

I hear that if the final output is meant for film, then go shoot for 23.97fps workflow. Right?

And if it's for the TV then go with 29.97fps workflow.

But what if you are planning to output the final project for both Film and TV?? What to do in this situation?

JM
 
It depends on your project, but I think I'd capture and edit in 24P and add the 2:3 pulldown on the export step. Search Avid's help file for "Pulldown" and "Export" for more information.

DV Film's Raylight MXFX can add or remove pulldown from MXF files losslessly.
 
24p, not 23.97fps right? I tried capturing on 24p but it wouldn't let me because I got an error message, something about the audio and pulldown, when trying to capture video from the tape deck.

Also, if I do your suggestion, I should shoot 24p advanced and not 24p standard?

Thanks,

JM
 
I'm told 24P is a relic, and that all 24 progessive footage is done at 23.976 in NLEs. So my bet is you always start with 23.976 anyhow. I just wonder whethe Michael P's link to that other thread suggests that you have to set the pulldown BEFORE you capture and edit so that you can export a 29.98 version at the end. I'm not sure. I'm curious though.
 
24p are 23.976 are specific and different frame rates. Very few video cameras shoot 24fps - You need to get into the F900 realm of camera to get that choice (Varicam can be set to 60Hz instead of 59.94). 24.000 is not going away anytime soon - it will be minimized in the US as far as a workflow is concerned, but Europe and Asia (PAL based countries) when doing 24, do not do 23.976. That is a 59.94 Hz issue.

Many of the primetime drama shows edit at 23.976/24 in order to create a 1080p/24-23.976 production master before making the 1080i master. This allows for the broadcast master to have continuous pulldown cadence making it easier to create the broadcast MPEG - it will also be of higher quality at cut points.

Michael
 
MichaelP, I'm curious, what do primetime dramas typically use (software and/or hardware) to make the 1080i conversion from a 1080p/23.976 master?
 
They edit at 23.976 native offline so there is no conversion from 1080i. The dailies masters are 1080p/23.976 so there is a 1:1 frame relationship between offline and online edit. When in a 23.976 or 24 frame project you just need to display 30fps DF on the timeline to manage show duration and deliverable. This is the same timecode as the 24p HD master creating a 1080i broadcast master.

There are cases where an offline is done at 29.97 (30i) and in those cases an EDL is created that is matched back from 30 to 24. When this happens, any one cut point will be +/-1 frame from original cut but overall duration will never be more than +/-1 frame - meaning it is not a .1% cumulative offset. The addition and removal of frames keeps it from being cumulative.

Once a 1080p/23.976 master is created, most decks can just set themselves up to play 1080i from that tape - even a JH-3 can take a 23.976 source tape and play it as 1080i with pulldown. Then it is a simple dub process to go 1080i etc. The higher end decks can also set the playback to be 1080p/25 - so all PAL countries deliverables can be created as well. This is why 24p is often referred to as the "universal mastering format."

In the case of interlace to interlace, or interlace to progressive, more processing power is needed to maintain quality - motion estimation and compensation, etc, are all used to create the new frame rate master - Teranex, Snell & Wilcox and others are all manufacturers who create these types of conversions. There are also software based conversions - I use Carbon Coder from Rhozet.

Michael
 
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