BrianBrook
Active member
I just wish the test would have included original footage for a few seconds before post work to REALLY compare/contrast the different cams, anyway I'm green to color correction and need to really educate myself.
Zacuto Shootout Part 3?
- Thread starter AKED
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j1clark@ucsd.edu
Veteran
I'm reminded of the on going exchange almost every time the Wife shoots her digital camera (haven't used film in about 3-4 years...)... the image is 'soft'... 'I focused on the eyelashes', 'the shoot is ruined'...
"Here dear, let's use a little unsharpmask' ey walla... 'sharp images'...
"umpf" is about the extent of an acknowledgement I get...
Cant be more than 7D!
Cant be more than 7D!
OK, if you like to call a non mirror camera a dslr, fine, whatever.
Just to prove my point, this guy carried out a nice test, more besides if you visit his vimeo site.
http://www.vimeo.com/7301752
Shows that a 17mm kit on 7d is not as wide as a 14mm kit on GH1, on this I hope we agree as viewed here. He also found the 7d soft, hmm.
Cant be more than 7D!
OK, if you like to call a non mirror camera a dslr, fine, whatever.
Just to prove my point, this guy carried out a nice test, more besides if you visit his vimeo site.
http://www.vimeo.com/7301752
Shows that a 17mm kit on 7d is not as wide as a 14mm kit on GH1, on this I hope we agree as viewed here. He also found the 7d soft, hmm.
Chris Light
Veteran
why is an "UNsharp mask" used to sharpen images? just a question. i've wondered about this.
Essami
Well-known member
Here is a crop ratio comparison with GH1 (darker image) and 7D, both cameras side by side with 50mm lens.
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philiplipetz
Veteran
the idea that light is invariant by distance is just an approximation that is very convienient. Look at distant light sources, stadiums and stars. The light intensity does vary by distance, even without haze. Actually there are many things that can absorb photons. In my physiological optics classes we talked about how different parts of the perceived density spectrum varied more than others by distance. Shadows suffer more quickly, and that is what we saw in the first test - GH1 with shadow problems.
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Does look wider, yes, am not disputing that a 7d 1.6x crop will be wider, but it aint much, plus the aov is not consistant here, overall though, people will now get the idea, not much in it and when dealing with stock Pana lenses they are usually wider for a 2x crop, in actual fact the GH1 makes them feel a bit wider much closer to a 7d with stock(typically zoom) lenses. On a 50mm with the correct aov
, as you can now see theres not a lot in it.
, as you can now see theres not a lot in it.
Ian-T
Veteran
Not trying to stir any trouble here but my take on it is the GH-1’s sharpness is very artificial (in camera). I’ve always thought this and it became clearly evident in the last series when blown up and compared to the others. Even in the first series when they compared the film vs the other cameras by the time they got to the GH-1 it was even sharper than the film footage. I’m surprised more folks are not commenting on that. It seems like you can’t dumb it down like say the 7D which in comparison looks soft. But with the 7D you have so much more control in post by adding your own sharpening filter to where you like it. Film has very soft looking edges also….yet it is more detailed (obviously because of higher resolution).
I really do not like Unsharp Mask…because of the rough edge it leaves in the images (no matter how much you manipulate the ratio). The GH-1’s images have that same rough look around the edges (outlines of peoples face, hands, straight lines, etc.). But it (GH-1) still makes good looking videos.
I really do not like Unsharp Mask…because of the rough edge it leaves in the images (no matter how much you manipulate the ratio). The GH-1’s images have that same rough look around the edges (outlines of peoples face, hands, straight lines, etc.). But it (GH-1) still makes good looking videos.
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Ian-T
Veteran
There is a big difference on the top bottom and sides. The 7D’s image looks like someone threw a wide angle on the GH-1 and opened up the iris a bit more. When you compare both you can see areas that are equally in sharp focus (the glass on the back cabinet). But as you start to move out more towards the counter things start to get out of focus on the 7D (look at the cash register and card swiper etc.). No doubt a result of the larger sensor.
He looks as if he stood in a different place for each
He looks as if he stood in a different place for each
image, angles are very different, I think there's a little bit of bias here. Needs to be flat, horizontal and verticals.
Image sensor of 7d is about 3.5mm larger horizontal, 1.4mm in vertical in 16:9 format roughly 19%!
However, Panasonic pixels are larger than 7d and am not sure how they scale the 3:2 to deliver 16:9, am lead to believe it may not be a 1080p size, hence the softness.
So you cant soften the GH1 image? lol.
He looks as if he stood in a different place for each
image, angles are very different, I think there's a little bit of bias here. Needs to be flat, horizontal and verticals.
Image sensor of 7d is about 3.5mm larger horizontal, 1.4mm in vertical in 16:9 format roughly 19%!
However, Panasonic pixels are larger than 7d and am not sure how they scale the 3:2 to deliver 16:9, am lead to believe it may not be a 1080p size, hence the softness.
So you cant soften the GH1 image? lol.
The frustrating thing about these camera tests is that even when you get a bunch of pros together to donate their time and money to test these out the peanut gallery will always look for a way to discredit the results when they find that their camera doesn't quite stack up in one form or another. People should be flattered they took the time to put this camera next to film, instead of looking for conspiracy theories. If you think you can do better, please, corral together a group of people and put down the thousands of dollars of money and man hours it takes to pull something like this off.
You're not sure how they scale but you're led to believe? You're just making an assumption and there's nothing really substantive or concrete about this statement. Please, you obviously like your GH1 and that's fine, but we are trying to avoid threads that just stir up the DSLR bad blood here.
You're not sure how they scale but you're led to believe? You're just making an assumption and there's nothing really substantive or concrete about this statement. Please, you obviously like your GH1 and that's fine, but we are trying to avoid threads that just stir up the DSLR bad blood here.
stoneinapond
Veteran
I have to take issue with your comment. Comming from an audio background where converter/preamp/microphone tests/comparisons are frequently setup and disected, the issue of bias and an absence of double blind testing always surfaces. So if you are going to call something a test, then make sure it is that, and not an informal gathering.
The other two highlights speak for themselves.
Ian-T
Veteran
I totally agree!! +1
:thumbup:
OK, Take it easy, am not complaining about the test
OK, Take it easy, am not complaining about the test
Yes, I am lead to belive its like this, knowbody except Canon seems to know how you get to their final HD image. Unlike GH1 which has a native 16:9 sensor format and scales perfectly down, the 7D is 3:2 native, so things need to be chopped and cut away, hey GH1 is probably the same to some extent but starts from a better aspect ratio.
Anyway, if your interested talk to Barry he has a good handle on bayer filters etc, skipping, binning, aliasing etc.
BTW, I havent once complained about the test actually, I was just pointing out some flaws in peoples assumptions about the GH1, which are inaccurate, so go and point your finger somewhere else. Knowbody's Knocking Canon 7d in actual fact, you are misreading the situation.
OK, Take it easy, am not complaining about the test
Yes, I am lead to belive its like this, knowbody except Canon seems to know how you get to their final HD image. Unlike GH1 which has a native 16:9 sensor format and scales perfectly down, the 7D is 3:2 native, so things need to be chopped and cut away, hey GH1 is probably the same to some extent but starts from a better aspect ratio.
Anyway, if your interested talk to Barry he has a good handle on bayer filters etc, skipping, binning, aliasing etc.
BTW, I havent once complained about the test actually, I was just pointing out some flaws in peoples assumptions about the GH1, which are inaccurate, so go and point your finger somewhere else. Knowbody's Knocking Canon 7d in actual fact, you are misreading the situation.
j1clark@ucsd.edu
Veteran
One of the things to process an image to increase 'edge' information at least for how humans perceive things, is to 'blur' then add/subtract (depending on what you want to do...) that blurred image from a multiple of the original image...
It is a form of contrast enhancement that takes the local neighbors of a pixel into account, rather than a global contrast enhancement.
The 'mask' has to do with how many neighboring pixels are used in the filter process, as well as the shape. In digital processing the 'shape' is often a square region around a pixel. in more theoretical works, often a circle is used...
The 'unsharp' means using the blurred pixels in the neighborhood for the calculations. One could use values for the mask that has an arbitrary set of numbers...
Well, your posts say something totally different. I know because I've had to delete a couple that fell into the trolling category. You don't like the 7D, that's fine, but you are skating very closely to the trolling category and we have pretty much exhausted our patience for those who just want to sit around all day bashing cameras. That's not what this forum is for.
A friendly reminder of what I'm talking about.
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=185426
Lumix Line: More Prime lenses and Professional HD features:
Panasonic Development Planning Staff Officer on user requests for Professional HD features on the Lumix M43 GH line: ( machine translation, so grammar is off )
the market response to that many users have requested more focal length wide aperture fixed focus lens, we have heard the needs of customers, and actively introduce more models of fixed focus lens.
...the market has a lot of users would like to join the GH system update function and shooting professional HD format, we will respond to their demands, we will be adding more professional-grade HD video feature(s) ....
http://translate.google.com/transla...2010/05/18/panasonic-interview/&sl=auto&tl=en
Panasonic Development Planning Staff Officer on user requests for Professional HD features on the Lumix M43 GH line: ( machine translation, so grammar is off )
the market response to that many users have requested more focal length wide aperture fixed focus lens, we have heard the needs of customers, and actively introduce more models of fixed focus lens.
...the market has a lot of users would like to join the GH system update function and shooting professional HD format, we will respond to their demands, we will be adding more professional-grade HD video feature(s) ....
http://translate.google.com/transla...2010/05/18/panasonic-interview/&sl=auto&tl=en
j1clark@ucsd.edu
Veteran
Well, I have seen some mention about HD features... but wide aperture, fixed focus lenses.... wonder who's been clamoring for that...
philiplipetz
Veteran
there is also a hint about making professional editing easier. Codec change, software, native 24p? Probably just 24pn but can hope for more.