Zacuto Shootout (GH1 specific)

The comment made about the GH1 shots sharpness on the bathtub shot is interesting, because of course it would be sharper overall as f4 on a smaller sensor means more of the frame is in focus. You can clearly see the 5D shot the wall is slightly soft because it has a larger sensor and hence a shallower depth of field.

On top of that, I agree that the contrast-yness , and some of the sharpness of the GH1 on the bathtub shot must be to do with the way the camera has been set up as i think its very easy to get a flat image out of this camera using Smooth mode and -2 contrast , and it really doesn't look like they did that.
 
PappasArts said:
Here's the GH1 and just the 35mm film grabs.
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I wonder how all the HDSLRs would have ended up looking if this set-up had been exposed like reversal film: protect the highlights and bring up gamma in post. In a real project I've would have set down ISO to 100 here. What still impresses me though is how well GH1 colour rolls off from near white into blown out - it really looks like reversal stock with a neutral white and next to no added yellow at the last steps as most digital cameras are prone to do.

nobbystylus said:
The comment made about the GH1 shots sharpness on the bathtub shot is interesting, because of course it would be sharper overall as f4 on a smaller sensor means more of the frame is in focus. You can clearly see the 5D shot the wall is slightly soft because it has a larger sensor and hence a shallower depth of field.
Click to expand...

On the other hand here one can really see how well GH1 mimics the DOF from a 35mm movie camera by just a 1/3 step more open aperture.

On top of that, I agree that the contrast-yness , and some of the sharpness of the GH1 on the bathtub shot must be to do with the way the camera has been set up as i think its very easy to get a flat image out of this camera using Smooth mode and -2 contrast , and it really doesn't look like they did that.
Click to expand...
If I recall correct B_Ben has already reported that Bloom said on Facebook that he set the GH1 to Smooth mode, -2 Contrast and -2 Sharpness.
 
Ok, I'm a little late to the game here, but I finally got to watch the shootout. Full disclosure, I turned the volume down skipped over all the discussions and ruminations about the footage and blah blah blah - I just wanted to see the comparison clips. I didn't really care about anybody's opinion of the comparison except my own (for the first time watching it through, at least).

And honestly, the number one thing I walk away with after seeing this is: film is bad-ass. I mean, just awesomely bad-ass. In my personal opinion, both the Kodak and Fuji films just mopped the floor with these DSLR's. I'm not saying the DSLR's are no good, and yes, I can certainly see how they are "good enough" and yes they are the future and do amazing things for the price.

But man... did you see how much latitude was in those film shots? Unbelievable! The glass bricks behind the bathtub, the light bulb, the roll-off, the smoothness of the gradations... To my eye, film is unequivocally still the king, and by a looooooooong shot!

As far as the DSLR's go, they were all pretty comparable to each other. I've always thought of the 5DII as giving the best-looking video picture, and while in these test I think it still did, it was by a much smaller margin than I expected. The GH1 more than held it's own - I love it's "sharp and contrasty" look in the bathtub scene, although I feel like it was not set up to it's optimum. Any of the cameras will produce breathtaking results in the right hands.

So what does all this test really mean for filmmakers? It's simple: no more excuses. The tools are here to make unbelievably good-looking films at even the most modest of budgets. But really, did we need Zacuto and Philip Bloom to tell us any of this? No. If you read DVXuser, you already knew it.
 
Ok, I had to do a Canon 5D and Panasonic GH1 comparison side by side for the latitude test so here it is after lining them up as close as possible in Photoshop.

One question I have on this latitude test, is it ok to blowout the white steps in order to get more steps in the darker regions and do all the steps count when you do this? Seems like they blew out the first 3 white steps on the 5D whereas the GH1 only had the first 2 steps blown out. The darker region seems to end at the same level between the GH1 and 5D.

I wonder how the GH1 would have performed at 160 ISO instead of 320? Do you generally get more latitude with a lower ISO?

Randy

GH1_5D_Latitude.jpg
 
Facebook exchange with Philip Bloom regarding the chart test strangeness.

Me (Wall Post to a friend):
"Random interesting thing. Philip Bloom says the GH1's chart test was weird because the lens they were using on the GH1 had a minimum focus distance that was too far to get the chart right. If they were using the same lenses on all the cameras then that should mean that the GH1 should actually be further back, not closer...so it looks like maybe they were using a different lens...which probably isn't a good idea in a scientific test."

Philip Bloom via Comment:
zeiss lenses were used across the board. we used a four thirds zeiss on this camera. i love this camera! it goes everywhere with me.

Me via Comment:
Ok, so it was a different Zeiss lens than the others? Hmmm...I had assumed that you would have just adapted the lens you used with the Canons or the Nikon to m4/3, especially if there was a minimum focus distance problem.
Doesn't matter anyway because we all know the GH1 has a banding problem in areas 3 stops under-exposed anyway...so its dynamic range just has to be better than 6 stops and we're done. :)

Philip Bloom via Comment:
all i did was the low light test. I was not doing the latitude test. the zeiss ZF were used for the nikon and canons. THe film cams had their own Zeiss lenses as did the GH1.

Like any test, errors can be made. I am sure if we did this again we could learn from our mistake. I still stand by the GH1 as an awesome camera. As I have said, that and the GF1 are my go everywhere cameras.

Me via Comment:
Got it. Thanks for the response!
 
Cavemandude said:
I wonder how the GH1 would have performed at 160 ISO instead of 320? Do you generally get more latitude with a lower ISO?

Randy
Click to expand...

In film, no. Typically faster ISO films have greater latitude. Panatomic-x, ASA 32, Plus-x, ASA 125, one definitely had to have a 'right on exposure'. Tri-x ASA 400 (nominal...) much more latitude.

The problem for some people is that the 'wider latitude' seems 'flatter', and thereby perceived as less sharp...

I've not tried to construct a 'gamma' curve for a digital camera, and run through the various ISO settings.

The 'real' problem with the higher ISO values for digital cameras, is the attendent noise, which does not look as aestheically pleasing as say, ISO 6400 film shot in low light, and push processed... People don't seem to get all swarmy over digital noise the size of golfballs dotting the image...
 
Just to get rid of any color tint, especially in the GH1 chart, I converted the same comparison image above to black and white.

Randy

GH1_5D_Latitude_BW.jpg
 
Its all a bit meaningless really

Its all a bit meaningless really

Those with GH1 know that he was doing everything wrong, and this is by a guy that knows his stuff! why would you need to shoot at f4.5? surely the zeiss glass was faster than this, there are PL 25mm 1.4 and PL 20MM 1.7's around and loanable(am sure) as well. To shoot some of the cameras at iso160 and the GH1 at iso320, probably equivalent to iso600 on the 5d is laughable. As we all know, if he'd shot f2(or better) on the GH1 and with the flat response settings I cannot belive for one minute he would of needed to be above iso100, if thats all that was needed on the 5Dmk2! but hey who cares, what it proves more and more is that the GH1 is exceptional for the money! small, light and very capable. Just think what it can do when done right?
 
Martti Ekstrand said:
I wonder how all the HDSLRs would have ended up looking if this set-up had been exposed like reversal film: protect the highlights and bring up gamma in post. In a real project I've would have set down ISO to 100 here. What still impresses me though is how well GH1 colour rolls off from near white into blown out - it really looks like reversal stock with a neutral white and next to no added yellow at the last steps as most digital cameras are prone to do.
Click to expand...


The GH1 has a very good roll off to it. It has a nice Smooth curve to it. The GH1 is also very clean. The senor under 800 ISO ( which is higher when compared to Canons I believe )
is amazing. I believe that attributes to some of the banding issues. Taking such a clean image and shoving it in a 8bit container will do this. If it had a dithering function, it would reduce that. Even on the shootout, it was mentioned ( I can't remember at what point ) that the GH1 had a very clean image.



pharpsied said:
Way to go man! This is the test know I wanted to see. You're a rock star, Pappas!
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Welcome.... "rockstar" LOL... It's amazing how this little cam performs in the company of amazing 35mm film negs like those. These are very low ASA/ISO films too.. That's some hard Sh*t to even think of going up against. That's state of the art film stocks of 2010.




Michael Pappas
http://www.pbase.com/Arrfilms
http://www.PappasArts.com
http://SumeriusChronicles.com/
http://TheOrbisTerrarum.com/
 
I really liked my GH1 but after I sold it and got another 7D I realize why the Canons rule. They work very good in situations where a GH1 would fall flat.
But sometimes the GH1 could shine brighter just not frequently enough to be a pro camera. That's what the Zacuto test highlights.
 
Hello editman. Haven't seen you in the gh1 forum in awhile. Could you give some insight as to what the 7d has over the gh1 and where the gh1 falls flat? I'm just curious because I'm also thinking of purhasing a canon as well. Thanks!
 
editman said:
I really liked my GH1 but after I sold it and got another 7D I realize why the Canons rule. They work very good in situations where a GH1 would fall flat.
But sometimes the GH1 could shine brighter just not frequently enough to be a pro camera. That's what the Zacuto test highlights.
Click to expand...

Really? How would the Zacuto test highlight where the GH1 falls flat against the Canon if the point of the test is to weigh these cameras against film?
 
EricTheBody said:
Am I taking crazy pills, or did the GH1's lightbulb banding disappear at 1250 iso during part 2 of the test?
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i wish i knew...i don't like how the video streams on Zacuto's site...what the hell kind of internet connection does one need to watch it? it'd be cool if they let you pause while it loads like Vimeo, YouTube, etc...

ahh well. that's my complaint for the day. carry on...
 
Chris Light said:
i wish i knew...i don't like how the video streams on Zacuto's site...what the hell kind of internet connection does one need to watch it? it'd be cool if they let you pause while it loads like Vimeo, YouTube, etc...

ahh well. that's my complaint for the day. carry on...
Click to expand...

If you use the Safari browser you can download any video embedded on any web page. Just go window->activity, and option (alt) click the biggest file loading :)
 
Ben_B said:
If you use the Safari browser you can download any video embedded on any web page. Just go window->activity, and option (alt) click the biggest file loading :)
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stupid question...i can grab Safari for PC, right? sux to get a new browser just to watch this thing haha
 
Chris Light said:
stupid question...i can grab Safari for PC, right? sux to get a new browser just to watch this thing haha
Click to expand...

Yeah there is a PC version and I believe this feature works...really convenient to download just about any damn thing from the web.
 
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