C100: Zacuto C Shooter?
- Thread starter deanoise
- Start date
indiawilds
Veteran
A simplistic design from wooden camera: http://woodencamera.corecommerce.com/Canon/Shoulder-Rigs-Canon/Cruiser-Black-Leather.html
I have their dovetail. Wondering if they sell that shoulder pad and handle separately. Incidentally, that handle looks like the two pushup bars I used during my college days.
I am sure some guys will get inspiration from this. 
I have their dovetail. Wondering if they sell that shoulder pad and handle separately. Incidentally, that handle looks like the two pushup bars I used during my college days.
I am sure some guys will get inspiration from this. 
Nate Haustein
Well-known member
I have the c-shooter and its wonderful. The baseplate is made for the camera (correct height) and the ENG grip relocator is fantastic. If you're buying the studio baseplate and ENG grip relocator anyways, you might as well just get the C Shooter.
Yeah, it's just that, if you stay in the Zacuto family, adding an EVF takes the price from $1,000 to about $2,400 (EVF Pro and mount).
Erik Naso
Veteran
That system will add up as well to more than $1000 in hardware before you could actually get it to a full rig.A simplistic design from wooden camera: http://woodencamera.corecommerce.com/Canon/Shoulder-Rigs-Canon/Cruiser-Black-Leather.html
I have their dovetail. Wondering if they sell that shoulder pad and handle separately. Incidentally, that handle looks like the two pushup bars I used during my college days.
I have this:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/841122-REG/Zacuto_Z_CSR_C300_Striker_Camera_Rig.html
It's ok except with long lenses (and an external recorder and the sound thingy) it gets very unbalanced and is tiring and difficult to hold steady. For shorter lenses I like it.
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/841122-REG/Zacuto_Z_CSR_C300_Striker_Camera_Rig.html
It's ok except with long lenses (and an external recorder and the sound thingy) it gets very unbalanced and is tiring and difficult to hold steady. For shorter lenses I like it.
anatusa
Veteran
from my pov tilta http://www.creativevideo.co.uk/index.php?t=product/tilta_bs-t03 is very close to eng if it used with c300.... since the cam sits exactly on your shoulder and monitor could be rotated to the right position so that its exactly in front of your eyes! i did a shoot this way yesterday.... really cool! the only thing is i would suggest to add - relocator for the grip - http://www.creativevideo.co.uk/index.php?t=product/zacuto_z-ergc
and the manfrote cam plate instead of original - http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=orderHistory&A=details&Q=&sku=553894&is=REG
if u shoot outside get - https://www.hoodmanusa.com/prodinfo.asp?number=HC300
and u really covered! that is why c300 is kind of a perfect cam....... u have all u need in small pac and its easy. cant even say how much i love ISO wheel , instead of 3 iso setups... like on most cams.
and the manfrote cam plate instead of original - http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=orderHistory&A=details&Q=&sku=553894&is=REG
if u shoot outside get - https://www.hoodmanusa.com/prodinfo.asp?number=HC300
and u really covered! that is why c300 is kind of a perfect cam....... u have all u need in small pac and its easy. cant even say how much i love ISO wheel , instead of 3 iso setups... like on most cams.
I'm actually more interested in a rig for the C100, which is ergonomically kind of unique. The C300's flexi-screen being more forward gives it more options for rigs, I think. So far the most appealing solution is the C shooter. I'll probably get one soon, rig it up, and post pics. Thanks, all!
Hi Nate. How are you getting on with that C Shooter? Anyone else using one? Buyer's remorse - or a keeper?
Cheers,
Ben.
The questions behind the question:
If we took the Zacuto Target Shooter (TS) vs the C Shooter (CS) -
Agility/small size (TS) vs Weight/inertia/easier on the body/muscles and more like the easy ergonomics of ENG (CS)
Usefulness of C100 Z Finder which needs forward mounted setup (TS) vs Monitor/NB/AC7 on arm, as the Z Finder pokes out too far at the back (CS) Or does it?
Fully functioning on-board LCD/Z Finder EVF combo (TS) vs Better quality monitor/EVF on arm, but with consequential loss of 2 x punch-in (CS)
Lots of trade-offs - anyone feel they've cracked it?
Cheers,
Ben.
nedcam
Well-known member
If you can make it to NAB that would be the best place to try every rig there is. Contact me if you need to learn how to get in free. Best to go on the next to last day and try them all, then pop in for the last few hours of the LAST day and get their "Show Special" for the model you want. Many of the booth people don't want to pack and ship the stuff back so they will sell it at wholesale. I've gotten goodies that way. I don't know if the show management will let you in with your camera without a media pass though.
IF you may need on some days to add a: NINJA, ON CAMERA LED LIGHT, WIRELESS RECEIVER, EVF, BOOM SHOCK MOUNT, then read on:
I have not yet figured this dilema out, I thought I had it solved, having pimped out my Tilta Rig and customizing details, but every day I go out shooting I come up with more PROBLEMS that need to be solved. This whole issue has slowed down my shooting and the only way I can really solve it is to have TWO C100s, one pimped out on the Franken Rig and the other very stripped down to do unobtrusive, fast hand held doc work, both with the exact settings. Or, and this is how I'm leaning, have the closely matched 70D for my unobtrusive unit?
As a freelance videographer for me every day is a little different but for the most part it's: Interviews, B-Roll, Establishing Shots, Repeat. All day long. So I need a rig that is perfectly balanced on the tripod including when the heavy f2.8, 70-200 talking head lens is on making it front heavy, but I can throw on my shoulder in a second and there too it is perfectly balanced. I also have an Anton Bauer on the back to run everything if need be and also provide back ballast. That way I am not constantly keeping track of various small batteries and their chargers. I have attached a photo of my rig for a "Lite Day". I have also included a shot from a shoot last week where it had become a Franken Rig with bad cable management, the Chicago soundman in the shot is Bill Laing. And what if I add a Ninja soon? Must have room for that. The bummer about these rigs is I need to stop and tighten every day thing after about every fifteen minutes of hand held work.
AUDIO: A big factor is what happens on days when I have to do my own audio and I need a place for the audio wireless receiver on the rig. That receiver needs power from the AB batt because it does not run on 9v or AA, hopefully your receiver does? You do NOT want to gaffer tape your receiver on your handle. Or when I do have my soundman and must break away to do solo work I need a decent boom mic coming off the handle so that needs an isolation mount better than what comes from Canon on the handle or you hear your hands on the body.
LIGHT: Some situations I need my LED on top to provide a little front light for the eyes, even if we have enough "exposure" it is flattering to have some frontal fill. Or it may be night exteriors and I need some pop. That also powers off the AB batt.
EVF: Everyone has their favorite, I own the DP4 because it's bigger but it's problem is it does NOT have a threaded hole on it's top so it has to be supported underneath using a Zacuto EVF arm, so when my left hand tries to reach the zoom and focus barrel it is BLOCKED by the vertical Zacuto upright. The Zacuto Tornado focus handle doesn't play well with the Tilta Rig dimensions or I would have bought one. I have attached a photo of a shoot last week that shows the vertical upright I just mentioned. If anyone has a work around please call me! I do not want it to attach to the handle because that is too wobbly. I spoke with Wooden Camera about their cheeseplate that goes between the camera and handle but since the DP4 does not have a top hole this would not help. So if you have not yet bought an EVF buy one with a threaded hole on top! But there's no getting around: On a bright day you have to have your eye up against a rubber cup or you will kick yourself in post...You have no idea what you are really getting on a bright exterior day even with a Hoodman on the LCD.
So in sum, all I can say is, unless you do the same type of shooting every day none of the rigs out there, and solutions all of us offer that may have worked for us, will work for you perfectly every day. Don't buy anything unless you have tried it first, perhaps borrow from a buddy? And always try to buy used, these things are built fairly tough. The more you can do good shooting without a rig the better off you will be.
I have joined Rigs Anonymous, I am trying to go back to basics and not need a rig. I have become addicted to this rig and need to get back to slimming down and being nimble.
My two cents.
IF you may need on some days to add a: NINJA, ON CAMERA LED LIGHT, WIRELESS RECEIVER, EVF, BOOM SHOCK MOUNT, then read on:
I have not yet figured this dilema out, I thought I had it solved, having pimped out my Tilta Rig and customizing details, but every day I go out shooting I come up with more PROBLEMS that need to be solved. This whole issue has slowed down my shooting and the only way I can really solve it is to have TWO C100s, one pimped out on the Franken Rig and the other very stripped down to do unobtrusive, fast hand held doc work, both with the exact settings. Or, and this is how I'm leaning, have the closely matched 70D for my unobtrusive unit?
As a freelance videographer for me every day is a little different but for the most part it's: Interviews, B-Roll, Establishing Shots, Repeat. All day long. So I need a rig that is perfectly balanced on the tripod including when the heavy f2.8, 70-200 talking head lens is on making it front heavy, but I can throw on my shoulder in a second and there too it is perfectly balanced. I also have an Anton Bauer on the back to run everything if need be and also provide back ballast. That way I am not constantly keeping track of various small batteries and their chargers. I have attached a photo of my rig for a "Lite Day". I have also included a shot from a shoot last week where it had become a Franken Rig with bad cable management, the Chicago soundman in the shot is Bill Laing. And what if I add a Ninja soon? Must have room for that. The bummer about these rigs is I need to stop and tighten every day thing after about every fifteen minutes of hand held work.
AUDIO: A big factor is what happens on days when I have to do my own audio and I need a place for the audio wireless receiver on the rig. That receiver needs power from the AB batt because it does not run on 9v or AA, hopefully your receiver does? You do NOT want to gaffer tape your receiver on your handle. Or when I do have my soundman and must break away to do solo work I need a decent boom mic coming off the handle so that needs an isolation mount better than what comes from Canon on the handle or you hear your hands on the body.
LIGHT: Some situations I need my LED on top to provide a little front light for the eyes, even if we have enough "exposure" it is flattering to have some frontal fill. Or it may be night exteriors and I need some pop. That also powers off the AB batt.
EVF: Everyone has their favorite, I own the DP4 because it's bigger but it's problem is it does NOT have a threaded hole on it's top so it has to be supported underneath using a Zacuto EVF arm, so when my left hand tries to reach the zoom and focus barrel it is BLOCKED by the vertical Zacuto upright. The Zacuto Tornado focus handle doesn't play well with the Tilta Rig dimensions or I would have bought one. I have attached a photo of a shoot last week that shows the vertical upright I just mentioned. If anyone has a work around please call me! I do not want it to attach to the handle because that is too wobbly. I spoke with Wooden Camera about their cheeseplate that goes between the camera and handle but since the DP4 does not have a top hole this would not help. So if you have not yet bought an EVF buy one with a threaded hole on top! But there's no getting around: On a bright day you have to have your eye up against a rubber cup or you will kick yourself in post...You have no idea what you are really getting on a bright exterior day even with a Hoodman on the LCD.
So in sum, all I can say is, unless you do the same type of shooting every day none of the rigs out there, and solutions all of us offer that may have worked for us, will work for you perfectly every day. Don't buy anything unless you have tried it first, perhaps borrow from a buddy? And always try to buy used, these things are built fairly tough. The more you can do good shooting without a rig the better off you will be.
I have joined Rigs Anonymous, I am trying to go back to basics and not need a rig. I have become addicted to this rig and need to get back to slimming down and being nimble.
My two cents.
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Thanks Ned.
NAB - that would be nice. Unfortunately, I'm not heading to the USA until August.
The Tilta looks interesting - assume it's the BS-T03.
I think, deep down, I want to make the C100 ergonomically as much like an ENG camera as I can. It's what I'm used to - and there are years of wisdom behind that design. "Cinema" camera ergonomics seem to be ill-thought through, solid bricks rushed through by manufacturers, caught out by the DSLR craze.
I do like that V mount tripod plate capability that the Tilta has, too. Do you have the C100 Z Finder loupe? If so, can you use it with the Tilta?
Alternatively, I'm thinking about something like the Tilta plus a Zacuto grip relocator, with the NB/Edelkrone combo we've just bought (the hanging LCD makes it operationally more like the C300):
The NB is actually sharp enough for nailing focus, so it may be that I don't actually need the C100 focus punch-in, while shoulder mounted. Dunno.
Ben.
NAB - that would be nice. Unfortunately, I'm not heading to the USA until August.
The Tilta looks interesting - assume it's the BS-T03.
I think, deep down, I want to make the C100 ergonomically as much like an ENG camera as I can. It's what I'm used to - and there are years of wisdom behind that design. "Cinema" camera ergonomics seem to be ill-thought through, solid bricks rushed through by manufacturers, caught out by the DSLR craze.
I do like that V mount tripod plate capability that the Tilta has, too. Do you have the C100 Z Finder loupe? If so, can you use it with the Tilta?
Alternatively, I'm thinking about something like the Tilta plus a Zacuto grip relocator, with the NB/Edelkrone combo we've just bought (the hanging LCD makes it operationally more like the C300):
The NB is actually sharp enough for nailing focus, so it may be that I don't actually need the C100 focus punch-in, while shoulder mounted. Dunno.
Ben.
nedcam
Well-known member
I highly recommend the Zacuto Grip Relocator if you do have front rods.
The reason I went with the Tilta is that I like the old V mount quick release base. I use it on my Sachtler 20 and I felt it spread out the load so balancing will be easier, slides back and forth a good distance and this is important when you have heavier front lenses or start adding accessories to the back. I also have one on the bottom of my 17" teleprompter so I figured keep it all the same. When I slide the base plate in I hear a very loud click so I then know I am safe to remove my hands, I haven't found that with any other plates I have tried.
I don't know what model Tiilta I have, can't find the receipt, I do like it and the price was right. It's too easy to pour a lot of money into the rig and a rig doesn't make you any money, it just makes your shooting day more comfortable. I have not used the Z Loupe. I would have gotten the Edelkrone holder but the DP4 has no top threaded hole so it won't help me.
I didn't mention in my post because it became lengthy but here's what caused me to join Rigs Anonymous last week:
At end of day with sun setting the client asks me to film out the passenger side window in a very rough, dangerous, Chicago gun heavy neighborhood to establish poverty. A fairly common request although the last few years it is becoming more dangerous. Soundman is driving the mini van and I realize I am drawing stares, after all, the rig looks like an automatic weapon, also it's unwieldy sitting sideways trying to deal with it. I have the soundman pull the car over and now the Franken Rig is on my lap and I need to quickly strip it down to just the body with lens and get the grip back on the camera, all this in my lap: IMPOSSIBLE, cables everywhere, and the sun is going down. This is what forced me to rethink how complex and bulky I have now made my rig. Yes, it's perfect for controlled situations and days when it needs to be on my shoulders perfectly balanced for hours, but when things need to go nimble the body of my camera, and it doesn't matter if it's a C300 or whatever, the body is ENTOMBED in the rig. Hard to disconnect everything quickly. I also learned the need for IS with the Chicago pot hole epidemic but that's for another post...
The reason I went with the Tilta is that I like the old V mount quick release base. I use it on my Sachtler 20 and I felt it spread out the load so balancing will be easier, slides back and forth a good distance and this is important when you have heavier front lenses or start adding accessories to the back. I also have one on the bottom of my 17" teleprompter so I figured keep it all the same. When I slide the base plate in I hear a very loud click so I then know I am safe to remove my hands, I haven't found that with any other plates I have tried.
I don't know what model Tiilta I have, can't find the receipt, I do like it and the price was right. It's too easy to pour a lot of money into the rig and a rig doesn't make you any money, it just makes your shooting day more comfortable. I have not used the Z Loupe. I would have gotten the Edelkrone holder but the DP4 has no top threaded hole so it won't help me.
I didn't mention in my post because it became lengthy but here's what caused me to join Rigs Anonymous last week:
At end of day with sun setting the client asks me to film out the passenger side window in a very rough, dangerous, Chicago gun heavy neighborhood to establish poverty. A fairly common request although the last few years it is becoming more dangerous. Soundman is driving the mini van and I realize I am drawing stares, after all, the rig looks like an automatic weapon, also it's unwieldy sitting sideways trying to deal with it. I have the soundman pull the car over and now the Franken Rig is on my lap and I need to quickly strip it down to just the body with lens and get the grip back on the camera, all this in my lap: IMPOSSIBLE, cables everywhere, and the sun is going down. This is what forced me to rethink how complex and bulky I have now made my rig. Yes, it's perfect for controlled situations and days when it needs to be on my shoulders perfectly balanced for hours, but when things need to go nimble the body of my camera, and it doesn't matter if it's a C300 or whatever, the body is ENTOMBED in the rig. Hard to disconnect everything quickly. I also learned the need for IS with the Chicago pot hole epidemic but that's for another post...
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Ned, are you happy carrying that rig, day in - day out, with the standard C100 handle? Any concerns?
I'm wondering about the same Tilta shoulder plate in a slightly lighter configuration, using existing SWIT 8845s to power the cam and NB. I figure it's cheaper and lighter to try those in the first instance - and then consider a V-Lock kit of batts and charger if I need the extra counter-balance at the back.
Cheers,
Ben.
I'm wondering about the same Tilta shoulder plate in a slightly lighter configuration, using existing SWIT 8845s to power the cam and NB. I figure it's cheaper and lighter to try those in the first instance - and then consider a V-Lock kit of batts and charger if I need the extra counter-balance at the back.
Cheers,
Ben.
nedcam
Well-known member
Hello Ben,
I come from a background of lugging heavy betacams and varicams with full brick batteries so no matter how heavy I was to make my C100 rig it is still light to me, although I am now 60 years old. As to the top handle, I find the handle incredibly convenient although it does get wobbly and I have to often tighten it. When I pass the rig to a crew member or client I don't need to worry much because the handle is what they will grab. Even if I was to not be doing any sound I'd probably keep the shotgun on unless I was sneaking under security's radar.
For something made by the Chinese I have been impressed by Tilta, well made.
I am not into SWITT batteries but my modus operandi is to try to get EVERYTHING to use the same one damn big battery, even the DP4. That way I am not having to carry around all these little batts and chargers. We tend to leave a location with them plugged in behind a sofa, etc. It bothers me that the NB would need a Sony battery.
Here's what's happened since yesterday's post: I may now have to begrudgingly buy a Ninja Blade which means I couldn't slim down the rig, I need the room for the NB. I got a call yesterday from the Animal Planet, don't know if you have them in the UK, and the prod manager said their post "doesn't want AVCHD". If I turn the gig down or perhaps rent a camera, this would be the forth situation where the client wanted 4:2:2. I am trying to move away from TV shows, after all, if I really wanted to compete I'd have gotten a F3, F5, C300, etc. but I want to do more producing where AVCHD is just fine. I would put the NB on the back so the client can see what's up. When they make a real loupe for it I will then move it up front as an EVF and sell the DP4. Or, just rent a C300 for TV requests.
Lastly, when you say counterweight in terms of a bigger battery, it's hard to balance these things, they will always be more front heavy, especially with something like a 70-200 on. When I see a rig that has a dumb weight on the end for ballast I can't fathom that logic. That's why I like the AB on the back.
I have found it is really important that your handles are so close that you can tuck your elbows into your lower ribs or else fatigue sets in. If my right elbow isn't anchored to my chest then the audience will notice when I release my left hand to focus or zoom. BTW, the Zacuto Tornado won't work with a Tilta. The distance from the rods to the lens barrel is too great. I had bought one and went to their Chicago showroom so they could help install it properly. They were very friendly and helpful but I needed various items to make it work. By that time my big fingers had a hard time adjusting it and it would slow down lens swaps. Fast lens swaps have priority over everything since my niche is documentary. So if you want a Tornado don't buy the Tilta Rig.
Here's a shot of me with the Tilta Rig, C300 and notice how close I brought the Relocator so my elbow is anchored to my ribs. Also, the Tokina 11-16 will see your right knuckles if you don't bring it up close. Chicago soundman Greg Quedens in the photo interviewing cops shot by AK47s during a bank robbery for crime show. So when considering the rig figure out if you can anchor your elbows!
Best,
I come from a background of lugging heavy betacams and varicams with full brick batteries so no matter how heavy I was to make my C100 rig it is still light to me, although I am now 60 years old. As to the top handle, I find the handle incredibly convenient although it does get wobbly and I have to often tighten it. When I pass the rig to a crew member or client I don't need to worry much because the handle is what they will grab. Even if I was to not be doing any sound I'd probably keep the shotgun on unless I was sneaking under security's radar.
For something made by the Chinese I have been impressed by Tilta, well made.
I am not into SWITT batteries but my modus operandi is to try to get EVERYTHING to use the same one damn big battery, even the DP4. That way I am not having to carry around all these little batts and chargers. We tend to leave a location with them plugged in behind a sofa, etc. It bothers me that the NB would need a Sony battery.
Here's what's happened since yesterday's post: I may now have to begrudgingly buy a Ninja Blade which means I couldn't slim down the rig, I need the room for the NB. I got a call yesterday from the Animal Planet, don't know if you have them in the UK, and the prod manager said their post "doesn't want AVCHD". If I turn the gig down or perhaps rent a camera, this would be the forth situation where the client wanted 4:2:2. I am trying to move away from TV shows, after all, if I really wanted to compete I'd have gotten a F3, F5, C300, etc. but I want to do more producing where AVCHD is just fine. I would put the NB on the back so the client can see what's up. When they make a real loupe for it I will then move it up front as an EVF and sell the DP4. Or, just rent a C300 for TV requests.
Lastly, when you say counterweight in terms of a bigger battery, it's hard to balance these things, they will always be more front heavy, especially with something like a 70-200 on. When I see a rig that has a dumb weight on the end for ballast I can't fathom that logic. That's why I like the AB on the back.
I have found it is really important that your handles are so close that you can tuck your elbows into your lower ribs or else fatigue sets in. If my right elbow isn't anchored to my chest then the audience will notice when I release my left hand to focus or zoom. BTW, the Zacuto Tornado won't work with a Tilta. The distance from the rods to the lens barrel is too great. I had bought one and went to their Chicago showroom so they could help install it properly. They were very friendly and helpful but I needed various items to make it work. By that time my big fingers had a hard time adjusting it and it would slow down lens swaps. Fast lens swaps have priority over everything since my niche is documentary. So if you want a Tornado don't buy the Tilta Rig.
Here's a shot of me with the Tilta Rig, C300 and notice how close I brought the Relocator so my elbow is anchored to my ribs. Also, the Tokina 11-16 will see your right knuckles if you don't bring it up close. Chicago soundman Greg Quedens in the photo interviewing cops shot by AK47s during a bank robbery for crime show. So when considering the rig figure out if you can anchor your elbows!
Best,
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