Z-Cam EVF HDMI input

S

Steel

Active member
Well, I really seem to be on here a lot when things don’t work/break…
I’ll have to contribute something useful sometime…!

Got the Z-Cam EVF in the other week and was hoping to connect it to my 1DC as we all know how useless that camera is when trying to monitor things.
Long story short, no go. It works with the EOS R. (Though not with the C500, but maybe that’s cause from the same era).

Here’s the email I sent to their ‘contact’ address, but I have the feeling they may take a bit to respond. I guess we’ll see…


I'm trying to connect my 1DC with the Z-Cam EVF, but I don't get an HDMI signal. I know the EVF accepts only a progressive signal, but the 1DC can output this, no? My EOS R works fine in 'AUTO' mode, although my C500 (original) must use the same system as the 1DC, as I don't get a signal from it either (although it doesn't give any options to change the HDMI output signal. The manual says ‘HD 8-bit 4:2:2 (YPbPr) 1920x1080: 60i/59.94i/50i, 1280x720: 60p/59.94p/50p’ - no 1080p/24 setting for the C500).

The Canon manual gives these HDMI output options for the 1DC:

'Signal Compatible with HDMI Output
1080: 60i/50i/24p, 480/60p, 576/50p'


...and these HDMI output options for the EOS R:

'Supported outputs:
4K UHD/29.97P, 4K UHD/25.00P, 4K UHD/24.00P, 4K UHD/23.98P, 1080/59.94P1080/50.00P, 1080i/50.00i, 1080i/59.94i, 1080/24.00P, 576p/50.00P, 480/59.94p'



I highlighted the 1080/24 option as they both offer that option. When connected, the EOS R reports 'HD 59.94,' and the C500, when connected via SDI, reports 'HD 23.98,' which should be the same signal as the 1DC, right? I tried the 1DC in 'AUTO,' '24p,' and '60i' modes, but nothing works.

Is the EVF expecting a UHD signal? Or something higher than 1080p/24?



I hope it’s not a bust, as I was looking forward to being able to properly monitor things outside in the bright sunshine here.
Thanks~
 
What rez/frame rate are you shooting in-camera?, because I think the HDMI just mirrors that. 1080/24.00 is not the same as 1080/23.98. So if you’re shooting 23.98(as most of us really do) and the VF can’t accept that(only true 24), that’s probably your issue.
 
Z-Cams offer 23.98 (and 29.97) so it'd be a bit odd if their own-brand EVF could handle them.

I would think the more likely culprit would be that the HDMI out from the C500 mki is SF/PsF (progressive segmented frame) rather than true progressive, which is what the EVF is looking for. I'd place a bet on the issue with the 1DC being the same. Atomos recorders and similar run conversions on the inputs from these older cams, but given the newness of the EVF in question I'd guess that it doesn't.

Of course, I could also be completely wrong!
 
I took a look at the EVF's B&H reviews (sometimes there are specific bits of information that are useful to know) and one of them does mention progressive-only (he/she neded PsF), so that's probably it, especially since it works in other cameras presumably with the same cable (and different resolutions and HDMI output settings were tried in the 1DC and C500).
 
PsF crossed my mind, but I wasn't sure if HDMI did PsF and couldn't remember is anyone besides Sony used PsF(I don't usually use HDMI for anything except at home). First time I encountered it was with the F900, which predated HDMI and obviously before HDMI started showing up on professional gear.
 
Thanks everyone!

Time, do you mean it would be odd if they didn’t handle those frame rates? Also, I think you’ve hit the nail on the head.

NorBro, that’s a good point, and just what I did even before I bought it. There are sometimes even useful tidbits hidden among the Q&A section, although some definitely warrant further investigation!
It was actually seeing the PsF comment on there that had me look up what the heck PsF was in the first place. I guess I’ve seen it pop up on the Odyssey before, but just assumed it was another way to write ‘interlaced.’

So here’s what I’ve discovered:

Yes, the C500 seems to just be PsF. The Odyssey 7Q has options for Progressive/PsF, Interlaced, and 3:2 Pulldown. Any HDMI signal from the C500 identifies as 29.97 PsF, but I can easily run 3:2 pulldown and get it to 23.98.

On the EOS R, every HDMI signal identifies as 29.97 PsF (this is just the 7Q and not the 7Q+, so no 4K HDMI input), which was curious, as the EOS R works fine with the EVF. (Also, this had me wonder what the ‘base’ video cadence is for the Odyssey - I’d assume it’s the Progressive/PsF option.) Switching to the EVF means the EOS R, in 4K mode, will send that same frame rate setting over - UHD 29.97, 23.98. But when in any other mode, be in FHD 29.97, 23.98, or HD 59.94, the EVF reports the HDMI signal as ‘HD 59.94.’ The EOS R only has ‘Auto’ and ‘1080p’ options for HDMI output. Nothing fancy.

Now for the fun part! As I mentioned, the 1DC has ‘Auto,’ ‘60i,’ and ‘24p’ HDMI frame rate modes. ‘Auto’ and ‘60i’ always, on every resolution and frame rate setting, identify as 29.97PsF on the Odyssey. But when I switch to ‘24p’ mode, I get good ol’ 23.98P from the Odyssey! So even if I’m in a 29.97 mode, the 1DC can output a 23.98P HDMI signal. It’s like it’s doing its own internal 3:2 pulldown, no? But alas, when I attach the EVF…nothing. Nada. Every frame rate, in every resolution. Zippo.

Just checked the manual again, and it says:
’If Movie Recording Size is set to frame rate 24, when HDMI frame rate 60i is set, 2-3 pulldown will be performed’ (p54 of 1DC manual).
So it is capable of doing internal 2:3 (and thus 3:2?) pulldown.



Anyway! Just a long ramble! It’s frustrating because with the 24p HMDI option, it seems like it really should work.

Now, I’m going to assume I can convert to SDI and get a usable signal. Anyone know a compact unit that I could use on-camera? I mostly see the Black magic stuff around.
 
It might work, but I wouldn't assume it...back then technology was a mess and there was a 50/50 chance there'd be some communication issue somewhere.

The following is obviously not the same and it's nice to have one EVF you can use on different cameras with proper features, but when some of us used the 1DC and company years ago, these loupes were amazing:

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ...for_Canon.html
 
Oh yeah, I’ve got one of those. It really is pretty comfy and useful for what it is.
I got the Z-Cam EVF to use with the C500 before it bonked out, and then thought it would be useful with the 1DC, too, for better focus and exposure tools.
 
Picked up a BlackMagic Micro HDMI to SDI 3G and it works when 1DC is set to 24p HDMI output. Requires USB-C power, but luckily I have that output on an FXLion Nano Two, so I still just need to use the one battery.
Elegant? Hardly. But it works.
 
Haha that’s a good question…
Yes, I do Ike the look, and the C500 and 1DC match quite well since they’re both from the same era.
That being said, I was definitely influenced by the ‘old pro gear for cheap years later’ thing, but would I have done things differently if I could go back in time? Yes and no…

I live in South Korea, and worked for just under 4 years at a company that made shows for some of South Korea’s largest broadcasters, as well as ads/promotional videos, etc. But I’m on Jeju Island, which is a far cry from Seoul, and budgets/quality/etc. here are very different than they are on the mainland. I started by own business here at the end of last year, and have slowly built up equipment when needed ever since (mostly lights/stands/etc.) I enjoy photo/video work as a hobby, too, so that helps with justifying some purchases.

The 1DC, being a 1.3x crop, gives me the widest 4K field of view I can get with what I have, and is still a great photo camera (I do both). The EOS R is good on a monopod for moving quickly around school events and conferences, etc. And its eye-AF breathes new life into photo lenses like the 85 1.2 and 200 1.8 that require AF adjustments all day long on the 1DC.

The C500 I got all-in with an Odyssey 7Q, power, drives for about 3200 USD, so it was tough to say no. And the image quality (which seems to have caused debate here since day 1) was great for me, especially as we would still shoot on 5D3s for TV broadcast here! (In addition to some Sony xxx-x70(?) camcorders and an FS7, which was always such a PITA to navigate and use). I did enjoy the XLRs on the C500, though. Having them on the top monitor was silly, but it was great having a proper audio connection.

But I’ve since seen that the C500, at least in the form in which I use it, is not suitable at all for handheld work, and really needs to be sat on a tripod. But that’s all in the past since it’s toast (3G SDI and MON BNCs fried/baked) and only usable as essentially a C300 Mark 1. I’m trying to unload it now. (And let’s see if the sensor really is going, as Canon suggested…)

Anyway, that was a long ramble…But in short:
- The EOS R works as a light and quick video rig and takes great photos.
- The 1DC gives me a wide 4K field of view and takes great photos.
- The C500 I bought on a bit of a lark, and well, look what happened.

I’d love to get a C70, but used C200s here are about half the price, so I’m leaning that route. I might also just see how long I can go with what I have, as I don’t get asked to deliver in 4K and don’t really need anything above 30fps for the mostly corporate and event work that I do. That’s probably the most sensible thing!
 
Thanks for sharing. What about cameras like the R5 and R6? Overheating keeping you away? (Because at least the R6 would make a lot of sense as it's full-frame so you'd get an even wider field of view plus you could use it for stills, it has a built-in VF, a ND adapter, tons of other features.)
 
I did look long and hard at both of those last summer…In fact I originally only bought the R as a stopgap at the end of 2019 (just before life got really interesting).
It gets hot hot hot here in the summer, so the overheating was definitely a factor. Also, not having built-in NDs (which can be solved with the adaptor, yes) and no XLR inputs were factors.

The run and gun shooting I do is all over the place; inside a windowless room (like a theatre) with terrible lights, sunlight and room lights mixed, then outside, then back in, etc. All within minutes of each other. Usually I just have a shotgun mic on top as that audio will only be used as atmosphere/room tone, and then the better interview audio will be used as a voiceover.

It was the pxw-x70s we used a lot, and having two XLR inputs was great for the Sony wireless mics we used.

Anyway, it might be worth pricing things out and revisiting the idea of (a couple) R6s!
 
You would love Sony's electronic-ND. Based on your description, it would change your life.

Lets you fine-tune and control ND like you would aperture...adjust as you please while you move around, aperture and shutter stay put.

Kind of like the variable ND filter adapter but better.
 
Yeah I’ve seen (with some envy) the eND - I wonder if other manufacturers will implement it sometime. Doesn’t Z-Cam or the like offer one?
Wow…I may have to think about the FX6, too. Mighty expensive over here, though. And impossible to find!
It’s 7500 USD equivalent here - mind you that’s tax included.
 
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