C200: Yes, a pretty nice visitor for the rest of the Summer

[puredrifting]

Well look who showed up today, it's a new visitor to play with the C200.
Will definitely post some grabs from this weekend.
Any questions, concerns, requests while I have this sexy Minx in-house?
Canon included not only the ZSG-C10 grip but also the much appreciated Zacuto right hand power cable
and some cool, funky lens controls I have never seen before, the Canon FPD-400D Focus Demand Digi and the Canon ZSD-300D focus control unit

 

[DLD]

What's your "normal" focal distance on a long shoot?

 

[puredrifting]

They also shipped us the CN-E 18-80 T4.4, will probably use that more for some interviews (I want to show all of the activity around and behind the racers) but also shooting some footage of racers entering and leaving the surf from shore, I normally use my 70-200 2.8 IS II for that or have rented the 100-400 F4.5-5.6 on occasion. Will be nice to try some servo moves though. So to answer your question, kind of all over the map, at least for documentaries.

 

[fhammond]

Nice! What's the weight like, particularly in comparison to the 70-200? Do you think it'll need some type of lens support on the C200?

 

[Spartacus]

I have the 18-80 and love it! I didn't get the ZSG-C10 so I would be interest in how you like it.
BTW I'm not using a shoulder mount, but cradle the cam in front of my chest for handheld.
I wonder why there isn`t a grip that has the zoom lever and the joystick.

 

[puredrifting]

Nice! What's the weight like, particularly in comparison to the 70-200? Do you think it'll need some type of lens support on the C200?

I am packing for the shoot, have to leave in an hour but just from grabbing it, it feels the same as the 18-80.

 

[puredrifting]

I have the 18-80 and love it! I didn't get the ZSG-C10 so I would be interest in how you like it.
BTW I'm not using a shoulder mount, but cradle the cam in front of my chest for handheld.
I wonder why there isn`t a grip that has the zoom lever and the joystick.

Just a guess but Canon sells a TON of the 18-80 to BMD, Panasonic Varicam LT and Sony FS7 owners, wouldn't be used on non-Canons so why build it in? But who knows? Wish they did but I have ran into that conundrum of moving from the camera grip to ZSG-C10 when I last had the 18-80 in January when it came out. It is a bit awkward.

 

[Jon Roemer]

They also shipped us the CN-E 18-80 T4.4, will probably use that more for some interviews (I want to show all of the activity around and behind the racers) but also shooting some footage of racers entering and leaving the surf from shore, I normally use my 70-200 2.8 IS II for that or have rented the 100-400 F4.5-5.6 on occasion. Will be nice to try some servo moves though. So to answer your question, kind of all over the map, at least for documentaries.

Wow, nice!

With the CN-E 70-200 I'd be curious to know how it is on focus breathing.

I have the 18-80 - and overall it's great. Some barrel distortion at 18mm but little to no breathing throughout the range. T4.4 is consistent, it's parfocal, etc.

I have compared it directly to the 18-80 to the 16-35 f/4, the 24-70 II, 24-105 v1 and the 70-200 II. It's much better than all of them on all of the above. it's also slightly warmer, is sharper, and has better local contrast.

I had one project where the breathing issues on my 70-200 II ruined some shots.

So, how does the CN-E 70-200 compare to the 70-200 II and the 100-400 II and is it on par with the 18-80 in terms of image quality? Now, get to it!

Thanks....

 

[puredrifting]

Wow, nice!

With the CN-E 70-200 I'd be curious to know how it is on focus breathing.

I have the 18-80 - and overall it's great. Some barrel distortion at 18mm but little to no breathing throughout the range. T4.4 is consistent, it's parfocal, etc.

I have compared it directly to the 18-80 to the 16-35 f/4, the 24-70 II, 24-105 v1 and the 70-200 II. It's much better than all of them on all of the above. it's also slightly warmer, is sharper, and has better local contrast.

I had one project where the breathing issues on my 70-200 II ruined some shots.

So, how does the CN-E 70-200 compare to the 70-200 II and the 100-400 II and is it on par with the 18-80 in terms of image quality? Now, get to it!

Thanks....

All in good time, I have these lenses to play with for a few weeks. No tests yet but did shoot with the 18-80 T4.4 on my C200 all day today, shot about three hours of interview standups down in Oceanside on the beach. Some quick, random observations...

1. The 18-80 doesn't play very well with the C200 mounted on the Zacuto VCT Pro Baseplate. I had to remove the camera from the baseplate to be able to mount the lens because the built-in servo hits the 15mm rods. I have the front rods on my VCT Pro flipped to raise them, can't recall exactly why I flipped them but I was trying to mount a FF or a lens support or something where it was too low and couldn't reach the lens so I flipped the front rod mount. It was a PITA to remove the camera to mount it but I shot with the 18-80 all day so it's not like I was doing lens changes.

2. One cool thing was once I mounted the 18-80, in the lens control page in the C200 menus, I could switch the grip joystick to zoom the 18-80 with the little joystick. That was pretty cool and allowed me to keep my hand on the grip and not have to move it back and forth constantly from the camera grip to the ZSG-C10 all of the time.

3. One maddening thing, still haven't figured it out, once I mounted the 18-80 to the C200, on my grip, the record and iris were still working but the joystick menu control STOPPED DEAD! I couldn't figure out why the grip was allowing me to stop and start recording and control iris but the joystick, which is essential for run & gun shooting to quickly change and tweak white balance, ISO, and to select menu items, etc. just stopped working. I disconnected and reconnected the grip cable several times, to no avail. It was so frustrating. What's even stranger was, when I returned to the office to drop off gear, I unmounted the 18-80 lens and replaced it with my cheapo 50mm 1.8 STM and instantly, the grip joystick was working again?!?!? I was ready to order a spare grip, take the camera and grip to Canon and complain but now it is apparently working again. I am going to have to remount the 18-80 to see if this issue is repeatable. But I have a shoot tomorrow so I am not taking the 18-80 in case this issue crops up again. Weird.

4. Looking at the footage we shot today and the 18-80 makes beautiful images.

5. We were going to use the CN-E 70-200 T4.4 on the C300 MKII today and we did. But Canon didn't ship us the Arri Rosette plate that allows you to mount the ZSG-C10 to the lens so we only had the kind of not so effective, built-in servo controls. After using the ZSG-C10 on tbe 18-80 all day, I feel the grip is super important to successfully using either of these lenses. Jon, I'll try to get to your questions next week when I have a moment to breathe from non-stop shooting and can sit down and experiment and play with the 70-200. Fortunately I own the 70-200 2.8 IS II so that will be easy to compare to it, I may rent the 100-400 F4.5-5.6 IS II but I may not because I feel that the lenses are for totally different purposes.

The non-fratenal twins at the office today...

 

[Eric Coughlin]

2. One cool thing was once I mounted the 18-80, in the lens control page in the C200 menus, I could switch the grip joystick to zoom the 18-80 with the little joystick. That was pretty cool and allowed me to keep my hand on the grip and not have to move it back and forth constantly from the camera grip to the ZSG-C10 all of the time.

As I've mentioned before, you should set it up so you can have your hands on both the C-series grip and the lens grip at the same time. Well, at least for shoulder mounted work. You then have full control of auto-focus and other functions from the C-series handgrip.

By the way, does the C200 joystick do anything when you press it in; in other words, can you select white balance, ISO, etc., by pressing in the joystick, which you can't do on either of the C300s, but can do on the C100s? It really bugs me that that feature is not on the C300. Someone said you'd get used to it over time, but I haven't.

 

[Spartacus]

2. One cool thing was once I mounted the 18-80, in the lens control page in the C200 menus, I could switch the grip joystick to zoom the 18-80 with the little joystick. That was pretty cool and allowed me to keep my hand on the grip and not have to move it back and forth constantly from the camera grip to the ZSG-C10 all of the time.

So you reassigned the joystick of the body grip and it worked?

3. One maddening thing, still haven't figured it out, once I mounted the 18-80 to the C200, on my grip, the record and iris were still working but the joystick menu control STOPPED DEAD! I couldn't figure out why the grip was allowing me to stop and start recording and control iris but the joystick, which is essential for run & gun shooting to quickly change and tweak white balance, ISO, and to select menu items, etc. just stopped working. I disconneted and reconnected the grip cable several times, to no avail. It was so frustrating. What's even stranger was, when I returned to the office to drop off gear, I unmounted the 18-80 lens and replaced it with my cheapo 50mm 1.8 STM and instantly, the grip joystick was working again?!?!? I was ready to order a spare grip, take the camera and grip to Canon and complain but now it is apparently working again. I am going to have to remount the 18-80 to see if this issue is repeatable. But I have a shoot tomorrow so I am not taking the 18-80 in case this issue crops up again. Weird.

Now you say it didn't?
English is a foreign language for. me, so please excuse me, if I misunderstood you.
This will be my primary setup once the C200 arrives, so I#m ver interested in this working...

4. Looking at the footage we shot today and the 18-80 makes beautiful images.

THIS is what I needed to hear

 

[puredrifting]

Eric, that's a cool way of doing it. I'll have to try that.

No, the C200 doesn't activate the quick menus on the bottom of the screen. I know, it's a bummer, I really like that feature on the C100s.

 

[puredrifting]

Sorry Spartacus, what I meant was, yes, I could remap the lens servo zoom control to the camera grip joystick, it worked, which is neat. But whether that re-mapping was activated or not, the joystick on the grip would not access or respond to the menu pages, which it normally does. When you are operating handheld especially, it is crucial to have the grip joystick access the menus as it is too difficult to reach the small joystick on the rear of the camera body when the camera is up on your shoulder. The C200's touchscreen has menu buttons and a small joystick, but I was not using the touchscreen since we were in bright sun on the beach which would have made the touchscreen too difficult to see.

 

[Run&Gun]

1. The 18-80 doesn't play very well with the C200 mounted on the Zacuto VCT Pro Baseplate. I had to remove the camera from the baseplate to be able to mount the lens because the built-in servo hits the 15mm rods. I have the front rods on my VCT Pro flipped to raise them, can't recall exactly why I flipped them but I was trying to mount a FF or a lens support or something where it was too low and couldn't reach the lens so I flipped the front rod mount. It was a PITA to remove the camera to mount it but I shot with the 18-80 all day so it's not like I was doing lens changes.

If it makes you feel any better, it's the same way with the 17-120. I have my 300 on the Zacuto, as well.

I put one rod in on the operator side of the baseplate, mount the lens, support it with one hand while inserting the second rod, tighten them down, THEN do a little dance with the lens support with one hand WHILE still supporting the lens with the other hand until it's all 'locked down'.

It's a simple, straightforward procedure on my F55 with the PL mount, but feels like some sort of dexterity test/"am I being punk'd" on the C300.

 

[puredrifting]

If it makes you feel any better, it's the same way with the 17-120. I have my 300 on the Zacuto, as well.

I put one rod in on the operator side of the baseplate, mount the lens, support it with one hand while inserting the second rod, tighten them down, THEN do a little dance with the lens support with one hand WHILE still supporting the lens with the other hand until it's all 'locked down'.

It's a simple, straightforward procedure on my F55 with the PL mount, but feels like some sort of dexterity test/"am I being punk'd" on the C300.

Yeah, I guess that's the price we pay for using a mounting system made for DSLRs on pro video cameras. If it weren't for all of the DPAF, IS, etc. I would much prefer the PL Mount.

 

[Run&Gun]

Yeah, I guess that's the price we pay for using a mounting system made for DSLRs on pro video cameras. If it weren't for all of the DPAF, IS, etc. I would much prefer the PL Mount.

Or if they would have just decided to use the locking EF mount like on the 500...

 

[puredrifting]

Or if they would have just decided to use the locking EF mount like on the 500...

That would certainly help too. Maybe the C300 MKIII will have that?

 

[Jon Roemer]

Sorry Spartacus, what I meant was, yes, I could remap the lens servo zoom control to the camera grip joystick, it worked, which is neat. But whether that re-mapping was activated or not, the joystick on the grip would not access or respond to the menu pages, which it normally does. When you are operating handheld especially, it is crucial to have the grip joystick access the menus as it is too difficult to reach the small joystick on the rear of the camera body when the camera is up on your shoulder. The C200's touchscreen has menu buttons and a small joystick, but I was not using the touchscreen since we were in bright sun on the beach which would have made the touchscreen too difficult to see.

This sounds like a bug.

On the C300 Mark II with the 18-80 if you set the camera grip's joystick to control zoom then that is all it will do when that lens is mounted to the camera.

When a different lens is mounted then it works normally (e.g. you can select menu items.) Similarly, if the option to have the camera grip's joystick control the lens zoom is not activated in the menu then it will work as it normally does.

A side note:

There is a difference between using the camera grip's joystick to control the zoom and using the lens' optional servo grip.

The lens' servo grip has a zoom rocker which can finesse the speed of the zoom while you are using it via how hard you press the zoom rocker.

If you use the grip's joystick to zoom the lens you can set the speed in the menu but it's either working or not. There's no changing the speed mid-zoom and no ramp-up or ramp-down to the speed.

 

[Eric Coughlin]

On the C300 Mark II with the 18-80 if you set the camera grip's joystick to control zoom then that is all it will do when that lens is mounted to the camera.

How do you set it to do that?


I don't believe I have the latest firmware so I may need that do that to get that capability. I've heard from a couple people that the latest firmware had issues; one person said he didn't think the image quality was as good, and another said they were experiencing problems with both Lexar and Sandisk CFast cards with the latest firmware.

 

[Jon Roemer]

All in good time, I have these lenses to play with for a few weeks. No tests yet but did shoot with the 18-80 T4.4 on my C200 all day today, shot about three hours of interview standups down in Oceanside on the beach. Some quick, random observations...

1. The 18-80 doesn't play very well with the C200 mounted on the Zacuto VCT Pro Baseplate. I had to remove the camera from the baseplate to be able to mount the lens because the built-in servo hits the 15mm rods. I have the front rods on my VCT Pro flipped to raise them, can't recall exactly why I flipped them but I was trying to mount a FF or a lens support or something where it was too low and couldn't reach the lens so I flipped the front rod mount. It was a PITA to remove the camera to mount it but I shot with the 18-80 all day so it's not like I was doing lens changes.

2. One cool thing was once I mounted the 18-80, in the lens control page in the C200 menus, I could switch the grip joystick to zoom the 18-80 with the little joystick. That was pretty cool and allowed me to keep my hand on the grip and not have to move it back and forth constantly from the camera grip to the ZSG-C10 all of the time.

3. One maddening thing, still haven't figured it out, once I mounted the 18-80 to the C200, on my grip, the record and iris were still working but the joystick menu control STOPPED DEAD! I couldn't figure out why the grip was allowing me to stop and start recording and control iris but the joystick, which is essential for run & gun shooting to quickly change and tweak white balance, ISO, and to select menu items, etc. just stopped working. I disconnected and reconnected the grip cable several times, to no avail. It was so frustrating. What's even stranger was, when I returned to the office to drop off gear, I unmounted the 18-80 lens and replaced it with my cheapo 50mm 1.8 STM and instantly, the grip joystick was working again?!?!? I was ready to order a spare grip, take the camera and grip to Canon and complain but now it is apparently working again. I am going to have to remount the 18-80 to see if this issue is repeatable. But I have a shoot tomorrow so I am not taking the 18-80 in case this issue crops up again. Weird.

4. Looking at the footage we shot today and the 18-80 makes beautiful images.

5. We were going to use the CN-E 70-200 T4.4 on the C300 MKII today and we did. But Canon didn't ship us the Arri Rosette plate that allows you to mount the ZSG-C10 to the lens so we only had the kind of not so effective, built-in servo controls. After using the ZSG-C10 on tbe 18-80 all day, I feel the grip is super important to successfully using either of these lenses. Jon, I'll try to get to your questions next week when I have a moment to breathe from non-stop shooting and can sit down and experiment and play with the 70-200. Fortunately I own the 70-200 2.8 IS II so that will be easy to compare to it, I may rent the 100-400 F4.5-5.6 IS II but I may not because I feel that the lenses are for totally different purposes.

No rush! Was just curious.

The only negative I have found to the 18-80 in terms of image quality was some barrel distortion on the wide end. Other than that it is stellar.

I replied to your #2 and #3 in another post.

At this point I have used the lens many times with and without the ZSG-C10. The need to use it, for me, just depends on what I am shooting and my camera setup.

I have done a setup similar to Eric's, using both the camera grip and the ZSG-C10. In my case I put the ZSG-C10 on the left and kept the camera grip on the right (I'm right handed.) I'm still testing this setup. The servo grip is more comfortable to me reversed than the camera's grip and I'm more likely to need the camera grip's controls, shot to shot, than the servo grip's controls.

I have a Wooden Camera baseplate and I can mount/unmount the lens from the C300M2 as long as the accessory grip is not attached to the lens.