YEAH no more H.264 for us...

This is Great News Because I have Invested Loads of Money On my 7d and I realy love it. Hope we see this update
 
Interesting. I wonder if the writing hardware on the 7D could handle the much larger files. As I understand it, H264 is used in the 7D to compress the sensor's data so it can then be efficiently written to the card. The forthcoming Canon professional video camera (yet to be named, I guess) which will record in MPEG-2 4:2:2 will also enable up to 50Mbps data recording. If a 7D does end up with such capabilities, I'd imagine it would come in the form of a 7D markII. I'm guessing at this. I don't really know. Just learning some of the seemingly endless tech stuff. But my guess is, such a software update is beyond the capabilities of the existing 7D hardware.
 
Perry Wilson said:
because I hate H.264...
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Why?

I mean, keep in mind there are lots of different flavors of h.264, but properly implemented, h.264 is the most sophisticated codec in use in professional video.

h.264 in the GH1, not so much. In the 7D, it's still pretty weak, and I would expect 50mbps of properly-implemented MPEG-2 4:2:2 to look better than it.

But fully-implemented h.264 could look better at half the bitrate. And AVC-Intra is h.264, as is HDCAM SR. 21 megabits of PH-mode h.264 outperforms 35 megabits of MPEG-2.

So, do you empirically hate ALL h.264, or are you saying you hate the 7D's particular implementation of h.264?
 
Not to be Debby Downer here but...

Really? Do you think the company that can't do a 24P firmware update (strictly because of marketing reasons I should add) until nearly 18 months after the camera's release despite overwhelming demand from customers is going to implement it's latest announced Pro Video codec in aConsumer SLR camera? And don't kid yourself thinking that Canon would do anything for us because It's a "Pro" camera. The corporate moguls are still scratching their heads over why these cams are so popular with us, and planned obsolesence is just getting warmed up now.

Personally I think it's farfetched that we'll ever see any major feature upgrades in the 7D, and if the 5DII gets an update before April 1st I'll be SHOCKED.
 
It seems extremely highly unlikely that any such codec change would happen via a firmware update. MPEG-2 and MPEG-4 are implemented at the chip level, and it would be very surprising if they included both on the same chip. Possible, I guess, but it would be surprising.

Personally I think it's farfetched that we'll ever see any major feature upgrades in the 7D, and if the 5DII gets an update before April 1st I'll be SHOCKED.
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With this, I agree.
 
I wonder if we Could All Chip in to Buy a RED and have it shipped to China to get s Knock off version Instead for less.. Just saying its Possible, we can Call it Blue! lol
 
Barry_Green said:
Why?

I mean, keep in mind there are lots of different flavors of h.264, but properly implemented, h.264 is the most sophisticated codec in use in professional video.

h.264 in the GH1, not so much. In the 7D, it's still pretty weak, and I would expect 50mbps of properly-implemented MPEG-2 4:2:2 to look better than it.

But fully-implemented h.264 could look better at half the bitrate. And AVC-Intra is h.264, as is HDCAM SR. 21 megabits of PH-mode h.264 outperforms 35 megabits of MPEG-2.

So, do you empirically hate ALL h.264, or are you saying you hate the 7D's particular implementation of h.264?
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Barry,

I'm just learning this stuff, and I'm encouraged to hear that such an upgrade would do little to enhance quality since it seems that it won't happen.

One of the few things about h264 that have stuck in my head is that it requires further transcoding in order to be efficiently used in most NLEs (I'm just now learning Premiere Pro CS4). So maybe people were hoping that editing in a codec native to the camera might have some advantages? I don't know. Seems most people say that converting from h264 to a NLE-friendly codec is relatively "lossless" and nothing to think about. Your opinion?

btw, I have not yet downloaded transcoding software. I run an iMac 3.06 core 2 Duo w/ 4 GB DDR3. I have the Premiere, and that's pretty much it. No AE, and no other video-related software. What do you recommend I use to transcode, and into what (is the term "package"?) for efficient editing? I will be editing footage from my not-yet-purchased 7D and my friend's 5D mkII.

Thanks!
 
Barry_Green said:
Why?

I mean, keep in mind there are lots of different flavors of h.264, but properly implemented, h.264 is the most sophisticated codec in use in professional video.

h.264 in the GH1, not so much. In the 7D, it's still pretty weak, and I would expect 50mbps of properly-implemented MPEG-2 4:2:2 to look better than it.

But fully-implemented h.264 could look better at half the bitrate. And AVC-Intra is h.264, as is HDCAM SR. 21 megabits of PH-mode h.264 outperforms 35 megabits of MPEG-2.

So, do you empirically hate ALL h.264, or are you saying you hate the 7D's particular implementation of h.264?
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Is the h.264 implementation in the 7D limited by internal camera processing power?
 
Boy are we getting spoiled - lest we forget, the Red IS cheap. Before Red, you had the viper, F35, etc. as the only cameras in that category, and they're arguably not as good! And they're triple, quaduple, quumpoop... um whatever the next one, the price!

You can't honestly expect Canon to turn a $1,700 camera into a full fledged high-resolution, no-compromise, cinema-standard machine. They'd be cannibalizing their own market in video cameras, for one thing.

Unless they really get pushed by another SLR company, their camera is really at the top of the HD-SLR food-chain right now. What incentive do they have to change it?
 
speedjunkie said:
I wonder if we Could All Chip in to Buy a RED and have it shipped to China to get s Knock off version Instead for less.. Just saying its Possible, we can Call it Blue! lol
Click to expand...

My goodness, how quickly we forget what anything close to the Red One's quality cost before the One came along. Now it's viewed somehow as overpriced.

**EDIT**
oops looks like someone beat me to it.
 
steventimothy said:
You can't honestly expect Canon to turn a $1,700 camera into a full fledged high-resolution, no-compromise, cinema-standard machine.
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hey you might be able to expect that over the years

get the spec from a $100k IBM corporate computer from 1990 and compare it to your $1000 laptop

I bet that laptop looks pretty much like a 1990 corporate computing solution

IBM needed to canibalize or die - I cant remember which happened

S
 
steventimothy said:
Boy are we getting spoiled - lest we forget, the Red IS cheap. Before Red, you had the viper, F35, etc. as the only cameras in that category, and they're arguably not as good! And they're triple, quaduple, quumpoop... um whatever the next one, the price!
Click to expand...
steventimothy said:
You can't honestly expect Canon to turn a $1,700 camera into a full fledged high-resolution, no-compromise, cinema-standard machine. They'd be cannibalizing their own market in video cameras, for one thing.

Unless they really get pushed by another SLR company, their camera is really at the top of the HD-SLR food-chain right now. What incentive do they have to change it?
Click to expand...

All good questions. But I wouldn’t speculate on anything. If it were a year and a half ago right now and folks kept screaming “we want bigger sensors to make our videos etc” people would still speculate that Canon wouldn’t dare do that because it would eat into their own video market etc. But who knew the 5Dll would come out with a huge sensor like it did? Lot’s of folks…and I mean it seems LOT’S of folks jumped ship to get their hands on this camera (even when they couldn’t afford it). I still don’t think that bothered Canon’s video sales (IMO…or maybe it did…I can’t say). But then they released the 7D with 24p…and THEN made the 5Dll fully manual to appease to a specific group of videographers…and now are planning to update its firmware to 24p. Really…what were they thinking?

I think they have lots of incentive to change right now… (Carpe Deim) and open up to a whole new group of videographers. In this economy I don’t think they (or other manufacturers) can afford to stick with the same old thing. There are folks on both sides of the coin who want these types of features in their cameras/camcorders. Canon (and really all the other manufacturers) can easily do it….and can do it more affordably. Even your example of the Red One and how it’s much much cheaper than the competition (at a fraction of the cost) and arguably much much better shows me that if a starter camera company (Red) can cut costs like how they did to make a spectacular camera like the Red One then how much more could a giant like Canon do the same. After all, these giants have been around a long time while Red has only been in existence for the last 4 years or so. How did Jannard do it? Investing his own money…yes…but he is one man whose budget can’t even scratch the surface of these giants.

Canon/Panasonic/Nikon showed us their potential with these DSLRs…so now there is no excuse for their future cameras. Like general Motors they need to change their bad habits to survive in this economy. It’s time for them to give us what we want and not what they think we want. Am I spoiled? Maybe. But the state of this economy is pushing me to hold off on spending my good earned money on products that can be better right now. Especially now since I work for the space industry and the announcement the other day coming from Obama will not only be cutting the Space Shuttle..but a whole bunch of other programs I’m attached to. 8 months from now…who knows where I (or the thousands of folks who will be losing their current jobs) will be. Canon…give me something worthwhile that I can hang on to.
 
Wait a minute....You work for the Space industry? :happy:


Ian-T said:
All good questions. But I wouldn’t speculate on anything. If it were a year and a half ago right now and folks kept screaming “we want bigger sensors to make our videos etc” people would still speculate that Canon wouldn’t dare do that because it would eat into their own video market etc. But who knew the 5Dll would come out with a huge sensor like it did? Lot’s of folks…and I mean it seems LOT’S of folks jumped ship to get their hands on this camera (even when they couldn’t afford it). I still don’t think that bothered Canon’s video sales (IMO…or maybe it did…I can’t say). But then they released the 7D with 24p…and THEN made the 5Dll fully manual to appease to a specific group of videographers…and now are planning to update its firmware to 24p. Really…what were they thinking?

I think they have lots of incentive to change right now… (Carpe Deim) and open up to a whole new group of videographers. In this economy I don’t think they (or other manufacturers) can afford to stick with the same old thing. There are folks on both sides of the coin who want these types of features in their cameras/camcorders. Canon (and really all the other manufacturers) can easily do it….and can do it more affordably. Even your example of the Red One and how it’s much much cheaper than the competition (at a fraction of the cost) and arguably much much better shows me that if a starter camera company (Red) can cut costs like how they did to make a spectacular camera like the Red One then how much more could a giant like Canon do the same. After all, these giants have been around a long time while Red has only been in existence for the last 4 years or so. How did Jannard do it? Investing his own money…yes…but he is one man whose budget can’t even scratch the surface of these giants.

Canon/Panasonic/Nikon showed us their potential with these DSLRs…so now there is no excuse for their future cameras. Like general Motors they need to change their bad habits to survive in this economy. It’s time for them to give us what we want and not what they think we want. Am I spoiled? Maybe. But the state of this economy is pushing me to hold off on spending my good earned money on products that can be better right now. Especially now since I work for the space industry and the announcement the other day coming from Obama will not only be cutting the Space Shuttle..but a whole bunch of other programs I’m attached to. 8 months from now…who knows where I (or the thousands of folks who will be losing their current jobs) will be. Canon…give me something worthwhile that I can hang on to.
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