XA10 vs HF G10 vs DSLR What do you lose?

E

Exact

Veteran
Ignore the 'shallow DOF' argument for a moment.... (in fact sometimes shallow DOF is not wanted)........

I'm looking for some b-roll cameras for DSLR video and I'm looking at the HF G10 an XA10. Would anyone like to comment on how well they can be mixed in post ? I'm hoping Canon Camcorder vs Canon DSLR would be closer in colour space than (say) Panasonic TM900 vs Canon DSLR. Is this correct?

DSLR vs HF G10/ XA10 - Low Light Noise
There are times I want MORE DOF than a DSLR will give me (think zoomed in @ f2.8 or f4 when the DOF becomes only a few inches instead of 3 or 4 feet than I need), but I still need to be able to interchange the footage with (say) a front camera. I'm also looking for more unattended (small) cameras.

I know the picture quality won't be so great in low light (the camcorders will have more noise) but how much worse are they than (say) a 7D at ISO1250 f4 when you NEED to have the 7D at that ISO AND you need the DOF of f4 and not f1.4?

HF G10 vs XA10
Thinking about the HF G10 vs the XA10, other than the handle and XLR input, what else do you lose? We'd get an XA10 for the XLR, but if we wanted more unattended cameras where audio was only going to be a scratch track for syncing, what else do you lose?

Any sample videos comparing either of these camcorders to a DSLR in lower light (I don't mean dark - but inside a church for instance!) would be appreciated. I can't find any local stores with either model in stock, otherwise I'd go test it myself.
 
Exact said:
I know the picture quality won't be so great in low light (the camcorders will have more noise) but how much worse are they than (say) a 7D at ISO1250 f4 when you NEED to have the 7D at that ISO AND you need the DOF of f4 and not f1.4?
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picture from XA10 is sharper and has slightly less noise in low light from what ive seen so far ... cant find this particular compare, but check out youtube, theres many lowlight footage, even such as u can compare (1 candle, etc) ... maybe it was just wrongly set dslr, what do i know ... in any case ive checked every single footage out on web from XA10/HF G10/XF100/XF105 and theyre amazing as far as sharpness goess ... that weird weak bokeh is a real bummer though
 
Thanks.

Well, given the lack of specific comparisons I've ordered a HF G10 to do some comparisons with. We'll see how it does in the next couple of days.
 
More in-depth compare of DSLR and HF G10 would be very very appreciated ... hope ur be satisifed with HF G10, see ya.
 
Hmmm..... did some initial tests today..... looking promising..... but I've a lot more to test yet.... :)
 
Wow! Just got an XF100 on rental over the weekend. I really wasn't prepared for how small this thing is. Even next to the HF-G10, it's really not that big!
 
Got an XA10 - very happy with the image quality, a little bummed about having to surf a menu for every other camera function. Still, it's a much better thing to shoot on than a 7D.
 
I'd like to know if there are ANY differences between the G10 & XA10, other than the handle and XLR inputs.

We've been running for the last 10 months or so with a mix of DSLR, XF100 (x2) and HF G10. The G10 has proved to be an excellent hand holdable camera and with a little help from Warp Stabilizer has basically meant we no longer use any steadycam stuff most of the time.

However, the G10 does have a couple of problems. The first is that the shots are a lot more saturated than the XF100, which is supposed to have the same sensor and lens. The first thing we do in post is turn saturation down on the G10 (usually -15 or -20) and bring the mids up as well.

The second problem (for me at least) is there is no timecode in Canon's AVCHD on the HF G10, so trying to get things in chronological order is much harder when shooting with multiple cameras. Does the XA10 have timecode?

The XF100 cameras have proved to be rock solid work horse cameras, and we're considering buying another.

DSLRs are great for the aesthetic, but often they are not sharp enough (certainly not as sharp as the XF100) and we're short of DOF (i.e. we can't get 'enough' in focus in low light).

Would I buy another G10? Possibly. If the XA10 had timecode and was more like the shots from the XF100 SOOC then I would probably spend the extra cash. However, I do prefer the G10 for hand held shots because for some reason the optical stabilizer just seems 'better'.
 
In response to this thread, I've had the likes of Panasonic DVX100b, HVX200, HMC150 cameras, then Canon XH-A1s, HV40, and I can say this, to replace the use of the Canon HV40 (mini dv tape) we purchased the HF M40 (was told it was the same "everything else" as the HV40 except for digital file based and we fell in love with it. And, just recently purchased the HF G10 instead of the XA10 because of the 1099 price at no less than BestBuy, and all I can say is WOW.

The G10 is kickin' major the low light of all the digital cameras I've had before. That's right; major! Also, relative to XA10 vs G10, with the XA10 just slightly bigger really other than the handle thing and the XLR, I would say that the "pluses" on the G10 outweigh that look and feel, let alone the lighter weight is a plus in this old man's book.

I have sold all my other gear and today use two G10's in place of the XH-A1s's and the M40 for that B roll 3rd camera on talking heads filming and amazed at how soft I can set the light with panels or just plain ole aluminum hood clamp on work lights with low to medium wattage CFC bulbs that are cool to the touch and even run off a 12v battery with a 110V converter. Moreover, for the price of an XA10 (around 1800) I can have almost TWO G10's. Also, since I use exclusively Sennheiser EW100's a simple stereo Y cord that splits CH1 and CH2 (left & right) I just put an accessory mount on the G10 fit up with a Lanc cord for zoom control, and I have two channel audio, zoom control, and a set that is awesomely HD quality and all fits into one large roller case if I want, or like usual, 6 smaller cases (I can personally carry all of them except I opt to have a helper carry four and I carry one) and three small lightweight tripods, a shoulder rig, and a Manfrotto FigRig and . . . YIPPEE I'm on the road for weddings, event, and broadcast with Auto/Manual/Iris/Focus/Shutter/Etc. professional functions and images as needed with 100% satisfaction.

Yeah, would love to hear back from the original poster how the G10 is working out at this late date and see if it confirms our findings?
 
drdimento said:
In response to this thread, I've had the likes of Panasonic DVX100b, HVX200, HMC150 cameras, then Canon XH-A1s, HV40, and I can say this, to replace the use of the Canon HV40 (mini dv tape) we purchased the HF M40 (was told it was the same "everything else" as the HV40 except for digital file based and we fell in love with it. And, just recently purchased the HF G10 instead of the XA10 because of the 1099 price at no less than BestBuy, and all I can say is WOW.

The G10 is kickin' major the low light of all the digital cameras I've had before. That's right; major! Also, relative to XA10 vs G10, with the XA10 just slightly bigger really other than the handle thing and the XLR, I would say that the "pluses" on the G10 outweigh that look and feel, let alone the lighter weight is a plus in this old man's book.

I have sold all my other gear and today use two G10's in place of the XH-A1s's and the M40 for that B roll 3rd camera on talking heads filming and amazed at how soft I can set the light with panels or just plain ole aluminum hood clamp on work lights with low to medium wattage CFC bulbs that are cool to the touch and even run off a 12v battery with a 110V converter. Moreover, for the price of an XA10 (around 1800) I can have almost TWO G10's. Also, since I use exclusively Sennheiser EW100's a simple stereo Y cord that splits CH1 and CH2 (left & right) I just put an accessory mount on the G10 fit up with a Lanc cord for zoom control, and I have two channel audio, zoom control, and a set that is awesomely HD quality and all fits into one large roller case if I want, or like usual, 6 smaller cases (I can personally carry all of them except I opt to have a helper carry four and I carry one) and three small lightweight tripods, a shoulder rig, and a Manfrotto FigRig and . . . YIPPEE I'm on the road for weddings, event, and broadcast with Auto/Manual/Iris/Focus/Shutter/Etc. professional functions and images as needed with 100% satisfaction.

Yeah, would love to hear back from the original poster how the G10 is working out at this late date and see if it confirms our findings?
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As i am thinking of moving from a Pana GH2 and thinking of getting a G10/xa10 or even a XF100 you may help me,one thing i would realy miss is not having on cam control of aperture iris etc,the large cam has but i dont realy want a cam as large as it.Why the XA10 that is now going for a reasonable price in the uk does not have them is strange.How do you find having to use the lcd for different controls.
New models are due out http://www.engadget.com/2013/01/07/canon-vixia-camcorders-ces-2013-hfg20/ and i find it beyond belief that the cheap models have bitrate increases while the G20 does not.Can you tell me how you find the color performance of the G10 compared to other cams and cameras you may have owned.Thanks
 
flinty said:
As i am thinking of moving from a Pana GH2 and thinking of getting a G10/xa10 or even a XF100 you may help me,one thing i would realy miss is not having on cam control of aperture iris etc,the large cam has but i dont realy want a cam as large as it.Why the XA10 that is now going for a reasonable price in the uk does not have them is strange.How do you find having to use the lcd for different controls. . . .
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actually iris control can be assigned to the hot button and rotating thumb dial as can shutter speed or a number of other similar options. like you i almost can't live without iris since i never use auto gain (disastrous) on most any camera.

as far as the lcd for camera control sure its a compromise BUT for one the lcd is very responsive and secondly there is almost an unlimited amount of things you can do . . PLUS . . the last task completed always remains on the lcd screen in the lower right corner which enables one to quickly click it again and visit that move.

now one feature you might really LOVE (which i do without a doubt) is that when you rotate the focus ring, instantly the screen zooms WAY in for ease in identifying focus on the lcd. i mean that is awesome. of course the image doesn't zoom in but the focus screen does and that makes it much easier to get the focus right on. in fact, i find myself using manual MORE often than i did on any of my larger cameras just because it is so much easier and very functional.

for now i've only gotten to use rented g10/xa10 cameras or loaners (the g10 i actually owned for a couple weeks when i realized i wanted the xlr's AND real hot shoe not canon exclusive cold shoe) so while my knowledge is limited on the operation but i have had some experience and all of it was awesome.

i think the two most favorable elements of the camera are how responsive the lcd controls are (compared to most cameras with lcd controlled screens that ive worked with before) . . AND . . how amazing canon optics are on the camera. i mean the images will literally make your socks fall off. i was so shocked at how gorgeous the cinema look is in 30p and how effectual the 60i is in motion that i can't stop WOW'ing over it. i sold all my mini DV gear and added an HF M40 as my "camera 3" b roll - wide shot which gives me an amazing lightweight 3 camera gig that all fits in one case AND i have less money in all of it as i would in one regular footprint HD camera.

i can't speak for the xf100 maybe someone else can but i can assure you for this run n gun, 5dm2/7d cinema, documentary, commercial, broadcast, shooter . . this new arrangement is the berries :-) hope all this helps? feel free to pm me or keep it here for others to add to or comment.

BTW, are you aware that the G10 and XA10 also have LANC ?? added to all the rest that the XA10 has, that feature was the deal maker for me :-)
 
drdimento said:
actually iris control can be assigned to the hot button and rotating thumb dial as can shutter speed or a number of other similar options. like you i almost can't live without iris since i never use auto gain (disastrous) on most any camera.

as far as the lcd for camera control sure its a compromise BUT for one the lcd is very responsive and secondly there is almost an unlimited amount of things you can do . . PLUS . . the last task completed always remains on the lcd screen in the lower right corner which enables one to quickly click it again and visit that move.

now one feature you might really LOVE (which i do without a doubt) is that when you rotate the focus ring, instantly the screen zooms WAY in for ease in identifying focus on the lcd. i mean that is awesome. of course the image doesn't zoom in but the focus screen does and that makes it much easier to get the focus right on. in fact, i find myself using manual MORE often than i did on any of my larger cameras just because it is so much easier and very functional.

for now i've only gotten to use rented g10/xa10 cameras or loaners (the g10 i actually owned for a couple weeks when i realized i wanted the xlr's AND real hot shoe not canon exclusive cold shoe) so while my knowledge is limited on the operation but i have had some experience and all of it was awesome.

i think the two most favorable elements of the camera are how responsive the lcd controls are (compared to most cameras with lcd controlled screens that ive worked with before) . . AND . . how amazing canon optics are on the camera. i mean the images will literally make your socks fall off. i was so shocked at how gorgeous the cinema look is in 30p and how effectual the 60i is in motion that i can't stop WOW'ing over it. i sold all my mini DV gear and added an HF M40 as my "camera 3" b roll - wide shot which gives me an amazing lightweight 3 camera gig that all fits in one case AND i have less money in all of it as i would in one regular footprint HD camera.

i can't speak for the xf100 maybe someone else can but i can assure you for this run n gun, 5dm2/7d cinema, documentary, commercial, broadcast, shooter . . this new arrangement is the berries :-) hope all this helps? feel free to pm me or keep it here for others to add to or comment.

BTW, are you aware that the G10 and XA10 also have LANC ?? added to all the rest that the XA10 has, that feature was the deal maker for me :-)
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great info thanks very much,i now have to decide whether to get a G10 or to wait for the G20 or go for the XA10 or even if there is an XA20 in the pipeline.
One thing with my GH2 i have no problems making Blu Rays as the pal 25P is in an interlaced wrapper,i dont know how the G10 frame rates work and if i could do the same.Cheers
 
flinty said:
great info thanks very much,i now have to decide whether to get a G10 or to wait for the G20 or go for the XA10 or even if there is an XA20 in the pipeline.....
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i spoke with B&H this morning and i read the engadget article (link posted above) and there appears to be no representation of an XA20 in the works at least not for CES which i believe is like next month? however, ive seen nothing written up for NAB in vegas which is in april. as i mentioned earlier, i can't wait that long because it is just too dangerous for me to not be ready so im waiting on funding and once funded i will either rent two xa10's now for a couple weekend three camera gigs and then schedule a rental for the may wedding already in place . . however . . if i could get the funding in place at the right price i might go ahead and make the move now . . after all . . 35mbs isn't a sure thing . . i think that's up to 35mbs which B&H said is more like 24 to 27 most of the time . . so it won't be a LOT better AND the 35x zoom is prob a digital zoom which is not a pro feature at all. so, if funded in time, i'll go ahead with the xa10's and if not, then i'll rent . . then if the xa20 comes out, then groovy, and if not, when funded i'll make the move and put two xa10's in my arsenal :-)
 
Great help here,what i want to know is what does the XA10 have the G10 does not discounting the XLR inputs,the carry handle would be useful but not worth the extra for me and i dont need XLR input,are there other gains in having the XA10,i need to know the recording frame rates,is the footage from the cams free from moire and alising.
 
i think internally the G10 and XA10 are pretty much the same maybe someone else could jump in here and clarify. but the big advantage of the XA10 is the XLR, two different zoom rates (handle and camera) two record buttons (and lock on handle) REAL hot shoe instead of the accessory shoe (non standard shoe on the g10) mic mount WITH a shoe and having the shoe on the front of the camera where it should be instead of on the back (which is weird) and finally . . audio volume controls instead of what it is is what it is take it or leave it. might be other features but those are the dealmakers for me.
 
drdimento said:
i think internally the G10 and XA10 are pretty much the same maybe someone else could jump in here and clarify. but the big advantage of the XA10 is the XLR, two different zoom rates (handle and camera) two record buttons (and lock on handle) REAL hot shoe instead of the accessory shoe (non standard shoe on the g10) mic mount WITH a shoe and having the shoe on the front of the camera where it should be instead of on the back (which is weird) and finally . . audio volume controls instead of what it is is what it is take it or leave it. might be other features but those are the dealmakers for me.
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Thanks again,so the G10 has no volume control at all ?,and having used them you must know the recording frame modes,my old HV 30 could record in 50i or 25P and the camera i am useing now has 720P 50i 24 and 25P but the video has bad moire and alising unless a tripod is used.Thanks again
 
flinty said:
Thanks again,so the G10 has no volume control at all ?,and having used them you must know the recording frame modes,my old HV 30 could record in 50i or 25P and the camera i am useing now has 720P 50i 24 and 25P but the video has bad moire and alising unless a tripod is used.Thanks again
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i don't actually recall seeing volume control of any kind on the g10 but it wouldn't surprise me that it has some LCD type of control. however, if you've ever done much shooting you know that very quickly sound can change from one level to another and a dial is a real PLUS :-)

as far as formats i think this is what i saw . . 1920 x 1080 at 60i, 30p, 24p and there was one other i believe. there might have been more but that was all that i was interested in for our purposes. hope that helps. perhaps another g10 - xa10 user could jump in here. as i say, ive only had them in my hands to work with a few times, the g10 for like 3 days, and therein i am waiting to see if there will be a xa20 or whether to just go ahead and get the xa10's once i hear all the reviews of the g20 and see if the wait would even be worth considering. :-)
 
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