Batutta
Major Contributor
And then we will have fully immersive virtual porn and that will be the end of mankind. No teenage boy will ever leave his room. Marriages will stop. Humans will stop having real sex and the species will die.
worst decade for movies?
- Thread starter Steve Laramie
- Start date
And then we will have fully immersive virtual porn and that will be the end of mankind. No teenage boy will ever leave his room. Marriages will stop. Humans will stop having real sex and the species will die.
Hawk Teflon
Veteran
Why not? I'm not talking about "like" or "dislike." Not the same thing.
Pretty much every aspect of a film can be good or bad, and taken by itself, it's usually pretty clear which way it falls. Aggregate it, and you get a good or a bad film.
HorseFilms
Look ma no hands
The 1970s were pretty awful.
Is the plane of focus on the subject of the shot? Was there background hum in the audio? Was the shot exposed for latitude? Easily answered and technically unambiguous: yes or no.
Was that line of dialog good? Was that expression convincing? Was that composition satisfying or unsatisfying? All subjective.
CaptainMench
Carbonite Member
Das Boot
Aliens
Raging Bull (Duh)
Cinema Paradiso
Amadeus
Back to the Future (mentioned)
Blade Runner (DUH DUH)
Ran (OMG DUH)
Platoon (maybe)
Stand by Me
Princess Bride
Brazil
The Killing Fields
Paris Texas
Hannah and her Sisters (gotta throw that in)
And those were just the ones I skipped college classes for!
CaptM
Aliens
Raging Bull (Duh)
Cinema Paradiso
Amadeus
Back to the Future (mentioned)
Blade Runner (DUH DUH)
Ran (OMG DUH)
Platoon (maybe)
Stand by Me
Princess Bride
Brazil
The Killing Fields
Paris Texas
Hannah and her Sisters (gotta throw that in)
And those were just the ones I skipped college classes for!
CaptM
Are you saying there's no such thing as clunky or stilted dialogue, bad acting, or bad composition, and that in all cases it's completely in the eye of the beholder?
I'm saying that all the arguments in the world as to what constitutes good dialog or poor acting, fine plotting and lousy pacing resolve to a matter of opinion on the part of the viewer. If someone enjoyed the heck out of Rob Schnieder's The Animal and argues based upon his experience of the film that it was just the best thing ever, no one can demonstrate that he's mistaken as a matter of fact, once technical considerations are put aside.
I said I wasn't talking about "like" or "dislike." That isn't the same thing. People are perfectly capable of liking bad films. I freely admit I do in some cases, and one of them is Buckaroo Banzai. And there are some films I consider good which I can't stand, like Natural Born Killers or Requiem for a Dream.
People are also perfectly capable of arguing until sundown that their judgment of a film's quality is 'objective' when really what they mean is the degree to which they liked or disliked it. Again, there are certain aspects of a work where people can tell themselves that their judgment is objective when - lacking universal standards for what is or isn't baseline - it can't possibly be.
Yeah, and for the third time, that's not what I'm talking about.
I'll ask the question again -- is there such a thing as bad dialogue? Bad editing? Bad composition? Bad acting? Or is it up to the individual viewer in every single case?
nouou
Well-known member
I hope that is sarcasm
I think it is. The difference is that you think that there exists such a thing as 'objective' judgment of dialog, acting, etc, and I don't. So I don't actually believe in the existence of the thing about which you say you are talking.
Objectively, no, there can't be. And yes, the individual judgment is up to the individual viewer.
If there is an objective set of metrics based upon inflexible, quantifiable, universally applicable judgments of story, plot, etc I'd sure be interested in reading it.
CaptainMench
Carbonite Member
Max --
The argument you are pushing is just flat wrong. You are confusing function with art. BIG difference. YES, art is objectively non objective. Once you get past that... all you are left with is like vs dislike.
My son can make a chair... does that make it on the same level artistically as a Niels Diffrient?? Functionally - yes.
As a set designer, I'd hope you wouldn't let my son come and dress your sets for you.
CaptM
The argument you are pushing is just flat wrong. You are confusing function with art. BIG difference. YES, art is objectively non objective. Once you get past that... all you are left with is like vs dislike.
My son can make a chair... does that make it on the same level artistically as a Niels Diffrient?? Functionally - yes.
As a set designer, I'd hope you wouldn't let my son come and dress your sets for you.
CaptM
I never said anything about "inflexibility." It's not a 1 or 0. And given your argument, even the "objective" technical standards you pointed out may not be as universal as you're saying (there are people who may not mind or notice a mic hum -- heck, someone might actually like it).
In any case, it looks like we're going to have to agree to disagree. The matter of whether or not there's a universal beauty is a matter of debate well outside this topic, and has been raging for quite a long time.
Batutta
Major Contributor
Sounds like a job for J. Evans Pritchard, Ph.D.
CaptainMench
Carbonite Member
HA! Another 1980s pop culture movie reference!!! From an artistic quality movie? Hmmm... Best ask Peter's mom.
CaptM
Not the same thing at all. I'm not the one talking about quantification.
In fact, I'd imagine Mr. Keating would be sympathetic to the idea of a universal beauty; most of the professors/teachers I've ever had who were remotely like him were. But being a fictional character, we can't exactly ask him.
Batutta
Major Contributor
I think once you get past a basic level of technical competence, then yes, it's all subjective. The problem is that different people have different levels of what they consider to be technical competence. This is why I talk differently about movies with people who aren't in the business. All they care about is mainly one thing, how entertained they were. They are oblivious to the craft, so long as it isn't grossly incompetent. Somebody like myself might see shoddy craftsmanship in the writing of a film that others don't, which will lessen my experience, or be bothered by a certain stylistic choice in the directing or cinematography.