Workflow (good) News

EL_STUPIDO said:
II'm bettin the farm*

El Stupido
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Hmm, Graeme told me at IBC that native support in FCP wasn't something that Red, Apple or any end-users had any interest in at all.

And I'm certain that everything Graeme said to me was completely honest and open.

:Drogar-Dum(DBG):
 
My understanding of what Graeme said to me at IBC was that neither Red nor anyone else could influence Apple as to which codecs are on what Mike Curtis has referred to as the "blessed" list, ie RT effects available.

However, presumably as long as RedCode is available as a QuickTime codec then FCP will allow you to make a time-line preset to edit it, as you can with any other codec.

Whether you can view the output of eg RedCode 2K on an external display will be up to 3rd party hardware manufacturers. Since Red have pretty good links with AJA, I'm betting you will at the very least be able to work with RedCode 2K media, and view it on a 1080p display using a Kona 3.

Nick Shaw
Red #462
 
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JackFoley said:
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For people who haven't used Cineform yet I must say that the 500 bucks for Aspect have been the best we spent on software in a long time. Realtime color correction and editing of 1080p even on my old 2.6GHz machine works like a charm.

We just ordered a killer Mac Pro with 4x 2.66GHz cores, 1.33GHz frontside bus and 4GB ram just to be used in Bootcamp and with Cineform.

Two questions for David. Do you think that this specification is getting close to what is needed for Cineform RAW 4k? (I can just imagine what current hardware configurations will be September next year when I hope to hold Red One #379 in my hands). Second, do you think it is reasonable to have an upgrade option for current Aspect users to Cineform RAW like there currently is for Prospect?

I really would like to see close cooperation between Red and Cineform.

I consider offline editing to be dead.
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Yes the 4 cores of a Woodcrest Intel system (like the Mac Pro) has plenty for horsepower for decoding 4K CineForm RAW in real-time, we think enough extra CPU bandwidth for color correctors and a dissolves -- certainly under Prospect HD with Premiere Pro. Under FCP we have all of Apple's codec restrictions (like everyone else,) so we may be limited to RT cuts only.

You can upgrade your Aspect HD to Prospect HD Edit, however it is not worth adding CineForm RAW to Aspect HD as CineForm RAW benefits from Prospect HD's 32-bit HDR processing, which Aspect HD doesn't have.

Yes, offline is dead to me also. :)
 
...Okay so maybe it's lucky I put that disclaimer then. I couldn't face tellin the animals that I'd blown them all for some magic beans. The cute little looks on their faces would have broken my heart.

That's pretty annoying though. I don't so much care for RT effects to be perfectly honest in FCP. I mean how many effects do people use anyway? Who the heck is going to use a spinning cube transition if they've got a Red camera anyway? I never grade in FCP anyway so that's moot.

But I would just love a world where I can import Red footage at the rez I've shot at and be able to edit it.

I've had a Mac since the Mac SE came out (Which I still had at uni in 1998 and was running System 7.1 on it) and I still think the OS (even then) and computers are just awesome. FCP was the big sealer for me after i finished uni. It's a shame that all the success is changing their attitude a bit.

Surely the community can make a hack for it????

Graeme isn't that the ideal eventually?

Like how easy it is to import P2???

I am over my head but I think I know what I want

(and it's not a pony)


E.S
 
EL_STUPIDO said:
I've had a Mac since the Mac SE came out (Which I still had at uni in 1998 and was running System 7.1 on it) and I still think the OS (even then) and computers are just awesome. FCP was the big sealer for me after i finished uni.

E.S
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Hey, me too!

I wouldn't worry about native support in FCP, I'm sure Apple have an eye on Red. How quickly they'd implement something like that might be questionable, but I'd be surprised if it didn't turn up in a future version.
 
Question for Graeme

Question for Graeme

I was just wondering, is the REDCODE 4:2:2 codec resolution independent, ie could it be used in standard def? Since the majority of films I work on end up being shown in SD, it might be very useful to be able to use REDCINE to downconvert to eg DV for offline, and then online by using REDCINE to match-back to the original 4K and stay in a RED format for the SD online.

Nick
 
Well if you're not coding it, I guess nobody else will be!

I am wondering what the implications of this are for native REDCODE editing in FCP – not that this has ever been explicitly promised. You spoke to me at IBC about two workflow options, one analogous to film using REDCODE RAW and REDCINE, and one analogous to traditional video using other 'flavours' of REDCODE.

I know that Apple do not support RT in FCP for 3rd party codecs, but if say AJA added REDCODE as a supported codec, then REDCODE 2K or HD could presumably be played out of FCP through a Kona 3. However as I understand it (and correct me if I'm wrong) although FCP can do cut-only edits on a 10-bit RGB timeline, any colour correction etc is only rendered at 8-bit precision.
 
Nick_Shaw said:
However as I understand it (and correct me if I'm wrong) although FCP can do cut-only edits on a 10-bit RGB timeline, any colour correction etc is only rendered at 8-bit precision.
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No you are right. RGB is 8 bit only...Motion does supports 32 bit RGB rendering.
 
Graeme_Nattress said:
2k and 1080p will be lower data rates. I guess 100GB of REDCODE RAW 4k would last about an hour. That's the goal, as we have said for quite a while - about an hour's recording.

If you shoot 4k RAW, and downconvert to 1080p for edit, then yes, there should be a way to go back to 4K in the future.

Graeme
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on the subject, jim added here:

http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showpost.php?p=693803&postcount=2

Jannard said:
The big announcement was that you can record visually loseless 4k on a small drive. Archiving your 4k digital cinema negative can be done without "refrigerator drives". Pretty incredible in our book.

Jim
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and it is possible to downconvert to 1080p only for edit following the graeme nattress post.. i believe to edit 4k it isn't affordable yet, correct?.. and is it proper to edit 2k?
 
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"is it proper to edit 2k?"

comes down to your system ...
if it can't handle 2k then it would not be proper to edit 2k ..

if you have Cineform 2k (10bit wavelet) then you could edit 2k pretty easy on a newer PC without hardware .. Cineform will be adding QT by end of year .. playback & CC real time ..workflow is all 2k = proper to edit 2k
 
finally, an answer, thx don.. you are a good man! (graeme i know you have been busy but you forget me! :crybaby:)

okay.. so i need to buy a cineform 2k solution.. is it suitable with the redcode? any inconvenience? or is there any other better alternative?

what's better? pc or mac?

any thoughts about configurations and prices?.. we will buy new

thx don
you're one of my fav posters here.. dvinfo.. wise ALways! :)
 
thx graeme for your answer.. pc? or only mac? (i know the nattress plug-ins are available but just for fcp)

2k?

affordable 4k not by now correct? 2008? 2009? 2010?

in the case of non-availability:

even if i don't know why not? if it is available from your redcode to a simple 2.5" red drive correct?..

is it easy to have a 2k master now and latter a 4k (when available) with the cc/grading but automatically? that is: don't i need to restart all my editing work from the beginning?
 
Everyone here talks about FCP and that's great. But, whether we like it or not, the majority of high-end film and TV is still cut and finished on some flavour of Avid. And Avid has always been their own empire making their own hardware and not being necessary very open or friendly to third party product. Hence the question; is Red talking/working with Avid and developing workflows with Avid in mind?
 
filmmaker1977: almost no edit systems can do 4K at the moment. As indicated the RED software is still in development so no numbers are available yet.

It's a bit early to talk about hardware requirements in the same light.

As indicated by Graeme software will be multi-platform.
 
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