Wireless Feed

LiamR

LiamR

Well-known member
G'day,

First let's start off with, I am way in over my head and have no idea, which is why I am posting this here.

I want to place cameras at a sporting event, up and down this hill, then send a live feed back to a screen at the bottom of the hill for the audience to watch.

I planned on doing this with GoPro's (unless someone has a better option, money is not a barrier), but I have seen it done before with them, so I thought it would be alright.

I basically just need someone to run me through what I need to purchase, how to set it up properly and get it running, can anyone help out?
 
Thanks for the reply, it doesn't HAVE to be wireless, but there will be around 10 GoPro's that run up a 3km + hill, so I figured it would be easier to do it wireless.
They will be running into a projector, so I have no idea what connection it will be. Can the GoPro's send a wireless signal to that Peerless device?
 
The HDS100 has HDMI, component, and composite ins and outs. There is a special GoPro housing that allows access to the connectors on the side of the camera (power and TRRS for component.) CBS Sports used them in a recent NHL game: http://www.twitvid.com/CAGNX. Bear in mind if you have 10 cameras, you will need 10 HDS100s, which is a lot of money. I also doubt they will reach 2 miles/3km. Do you need to see them all at once, or could you put a switcher of some sort between all the cameras and the projector? This would save you cable or wireless boxes.
 
This Peerless device seems to be one transmitter to 4 receivers. I don't know how you expect to run 10 at a time on the same frequency without interferring with one another. It is not meant for multi transmitter use. I don't thnk you have a budget to do what you want to do with live feeds. Broadcast Link systems are 10K+ each. Triax/coax or let alone fibre is not cheap.
 
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Yeah, you're not going to find wireless that'll work for 3km. Not under $10k per camera, if not more. All of the consumer-like solutions are pretty much useless past 150 feet. Even cabled HDSDI runs break down over more than 300 feet or so. If you're willing to work in composite SD, you might be able to make that go farther, but still not 3km, at least not without repeaters every few hundred feet.

How will you be switching the 10 cameras?

Potentially, with enough budget, you could get Blackmagic HDMI (or component HD) to HDSDI converters, and then run them into Rattlers ( http://www.telecast-fiber.com/rattler-hd-sdi-link/ ), and then run fiber down the hill, but you're looking at a TON of money to put that together. At that point, the GoPros will cost less than anything else in the signal chain, so it would make sense to use better cameras too.

Quite frankly, this might be something you should go to someone with more experience for. This is the kind of challenge Outside Broadcast (OB) companies are familiar with dealing with, and will have the equipment for. It won't be cheap, but it'll be done right.
 
Ok, thanks for all the reply's guys, it's really helping me figure some things out. Let me just say that I have NO CLUE what so ever about what I am doing which is why I came here for advice, the 3km situation would be the maximum length they would go, on some tracks it would be less than 1km - around 400-500m, I don't know how I will be switching between cameras, does anyone have any ideas?

Can you explain more about the rattler idea, I literately have no idea what I am talking about, so you basically have to treat me like i'm completely stupid, because with this I am. I may start off with just 4-5 GoPro's? and run it down a track length of about 500m with some cables, into a small screen and see if it works / I can change between cameras. Money is not the biggest issue as I have a lot of organizations backing me, I just put forth the idea thinking why not and now there ready to push it forward.

Thanks, Liam
 
What is the location and goal of this project? That would help us on recommending equipment I think. If it's for broadcast, you will probably want a real video switcher. If it's for analysis or something "utility" you can probably get away with a glorified A/B switch (although it would be more like an A/B/C/D/E/F/G switch.) The video won't look as pretty, but it's a lot cheaper.
 
Alright, it is for a downhill mountain biking event, the hill's range in size, the longest one would ever get is 3km, the smallest I think is 200m in height. All we want is GoPros trackside running a live feed down to the bottom of the hill to a screen/projector so that the audience down the bottom can watch all the action. Wire's would not be a problem to run, I just thought that wireless would be more convenient, either way I can do it. I have no experience with this at all, so I am going in completely blind.

The video quality doesn't have to be optimum, most of these people will just be stoked on what's happening and won't worry about quality.

I hope this gives a better insight into what we're trying to achieve, I plan to have this up and running by March/April/May next year, so plenty of time to purchase/test/conquer

Thanks, Liam
 
Regardless of the image quality you need at the bottom of the hill, you still need to get the signal there, and just GoPro's alone wont cut it. You need to send SDI, UTP, or video-over-IP, and that means encoders, decoders, hubs, power supplies and more at every camera position plus a switcher and monitors at the end. And speaking of the end, do not think that boardroom data projector pinched from your mate's office for the weekend will cut it in daylight. Not to mention how precarious a screen can be at the base of a mountain with regards to wind. Notice all outdoor sporting events seem to use LED walls for video foldback?

Since you mentioned you have some budget for this–and it seems you are sticking your neck out for this initiative, good on ya–why not go to a mobile production house and tell them what you want to do? Mention the image/switching quality can be "utilitarian/archival." They'll set you up with the proper equipment and you will be the event's video producer/director/hero. Because of the cable runs involved, anything DIY will be nerve-wracking and thoroughly un-enjoyable. Even if you plan to do more of this sort of thing in the future, renting/hiring first to see how it's done, and with what, is a great start.

My experience is with live event productions like tradeshows, festivals, and concerts. Even in these controlled environments, video feeds are no place for bodged kit, so imagine on the side of a mountain!

Hope this helps,
Craig
www.interlocutor.ca
 
If there is Wifi available on the site (doesn't sound likely from the description of the event, but just in case), you might consider using video conferencing software of some kind to feed a live stream across the network to another computer where you could monitor the feeds and send the output to the monitor.

I've helped do something similar before somewhere; granted it was only one feed...

Quality may not be as good, of course.
 
DadinWestchester said:
This Peerless device seems to be one transmitter to 4 receivers. I don't know how you expect to run 10 at a time on the same frequency without interferring with one another. It is not meant for multi transmitter use.
Click to expand...

The HDS 100 system comes in 1:1, 1:2, 1:3, and 1:4 versions. I'm pretty sure you can have two 1:1 systems working in close proximity, because I think our Peerless rep did that at a trade show, but I don't know the upper lmit on simultaneous systems. Its max range of 131' feet disqualifies it from this application, but I have seen it in operation, both on Blu-Ray video and XGA computer signal with an interactive whiteboard, and I have to say it is easily the best wireless video I've ever seen in its price range.

Pickthorne said:
And speaking of the end, do not think that boardroom data projector pinched from your mate's office for the weekend will cut it in daylight. Not to mention how precarious a screen can be at the base of a mountain with regards to wind. Notice all outdoor sporting events seem to use LED walls for video foldback?
Click to expand...

Quoted for truth. :)
 
Projectors during daylight hours will simply not work, period, you will need either plasmas or LED screens. It sounds like youre way in over your head as to what a DIY can do. I would contact a sports broadcast company to bid on doing this. some one like ESPN or the like. ITs not going to be cheap as what you're proposing is basically exactly what is done during the televising of such an event, only not broadcasting over air.

As there many here that work in sports event production know this will take a small army of people to pull off successfully as well.
 
edinc90 said:
But since it's WiFi, couldn't you just use a WiFi router as a repeater? My friend with an HDS100 said he was going to try this very thing, but I'm not sure if he ever did.
Click to expand...

The way I understand it, although it's using a version of Wireless-N, it's not using it to the usual data standards, so that the system can be used at the same time as Wi-Fi. I know that the transmitters and receivers are "paired," and that a transmitter paired to one receiver won't talk to a receiver paired to another transmitter, because I've seen it--after that two-system show I was talking about, our rep wound up with a transmitter from one system and a receiver from the other, so his first attempt at a demo here was, let's say, unsuccessful. :)
 
Pickthorne said:
Regardless of the image quality you need at the bottom of the hill, you still need to get the signal there, and just GoPro's alone wont cut it. You need to send SDI, UTP, or video-over-IP, and that means encoders, decoders, hubs, power supplies and more at every camera position plus a switcher and monitors at the end. And speaking of the end, do not think that boardroom data projector pinched from your mate's office for the weekend will cut it in daylight. Not to mention how precarious a screen can be at the base of a mountain with regards to wind. Notice all outdoor sporting events seem to use LED walls for video foldback?

Since you mentioned you have some budget for this–and it seems you are sticking your neck out for this initiative, good on ya–why not go to a mobile production house and tell them what you want to do? Mention the image/switching quality can be "utilitarian/archival." They'll set you up with the proper equipment and you will be the event's video producer/director/hero. Because of the cable runs involved, anything DIY will be nerve-wracking and thoroughly un-enjoyable. Even if you plan to do more of this sort of thing in the future, renting/hiring first to see how it's done, and with what, is a great start.

My experience is with live event productions like tradeshows, festivals, and concerts. Even in these controlled environments, video feeds are no place for bodged kit, so imagine on the side of a mountain!

Hope this helps,
Craig
www.interlocutor.ca
Click to expand...

Thanks for the detailed post.

The reason I listed GoPro's, is because I have seen it done that way at events exactly like this, I have no idea how they did it though.

I used projectors as an example of the sort of sized screens we need, what ever works best, works best.

We will definitely look into a production company coming and helping out, that'll most likely be the route we end up taking. But I would love to give it a go, budget is no issue.

fde101 said:
If there is Wifi available on the site (doesn't sound likely from the description of the event, but just in case), you might consider using video conferencing software of some kind to feed a live stream across the network to another computer where you could monitor the feeds and send the output to the monitor.

I've helped do something similar before somewhere; granted it was only one feed...

Quality may not be as good, of course.
Click to expand...

There is WiFi, the timing is ALL done wireless. We will have a look into that, thanks.

recordingwhiz said:
Projectors during daylight hours will simply not work, period, you will need either plasmas or LED screens. It sounds like youre way in over your head as to what a DIY can do. I would contact a sports broadcast company to bid on doing this. some one like ESPN or the like. ITs not going to be cheap as what you're proposing is basically exactly what is done during the televising of such an event, only not broadcasting over air.

As there many here that work in sports event production know this will take a small army of people to pull off successfully as well.
Click to expand...

Yeah, we are definitely in over our head, which we don't doubt, but we're just trying to learn. A projector will not be ideal, although I have seen them used at these events before, Looking into multiple LEDs might be better.
 
A couple of years ago i purchased an 8' by 14' LED daylight viewable screen with a 10mm pitch and it cost about $300k for that one screen, not to mention the video production control room. we were doing Cricket matches in the Caribbean. You can run single-mode fiber up to 10k but then you're looking at substantial cost, MIcrowave video links that can do those kind of distances are also extremely expensive. A video production company rents all this stuff per event since the technology changes fairly quickly. you might want to start a conversation with a production company who does sport events, so they can give you real world solutions.

good luck
 
Interesting concept and a big "wow" on trying to do it yourself. I have done quite a bit of work doing sporting events on OB trucks. There are specialty companies that do the "tour de france" type races that have portable cameras with high quality streaming, I would start looking in the credits and seeing who is doing those in your area. If these events are going to be happening on a regular basis, and you want to go pretty "cheap" ($20-30k), you could do a high quality surveillance "IP Camera" attached to something like an Engenius Wireless Bridge ($100 ea. +/-). The bridges in optimal conditions can reach up to about 25 km so they say, but we have used them up to about 2 miles (4km give or take) with acceptable results for fixed point to point cameras. You would need to find some sort of pole or mast to get them above any tree line and have a few on the receiving end to make sure you can carry the bandwidth. Then find a surveillance IP software that will allow you to full screen each camera and switch between them. It would be VERY basic but could work on a smaller budget. Obviously, conditions would have to be right and you need someone who knows how to configure the network, and you need power at each location, but it would be worth a shot if you need a system you can use over and over again. You're either gonna pay a lot of money hiring someone or a lot of money to make it happen on your own.
 
Kit Hannah said:
Interesting concept and a big "wow" on trying to do it yourself. I have done quite a bit of work doing sporting events on OB trucks. There are specialty companies that do the "tour de france" type races that have portable cameras with high quality streaming, I would start looking in the credits and seeing who is doing those in your area. If these events are going to be happening on a regular basis, and you want to go pretty "cheap" ($20-30k), you could do a high quality surveillance "IP Camera" attached to something like an Engenius Wireless Bridge ($100 ea. +/-). The bridges in optimal conditions can reach up to about 25 km so they say, but we have used them up to about 2 miles (4km give or take) with acceptable results for fixed point to point cameras. You would need to find some sort of pole or mast to get them above any tree line and have a few on the receiving end to make sure you can carry the bandwidth. Then find a surveillance IP software that will allow you to full screen each camera and switch between them. It would be VERY basic but could work on a smaller budget. Obviously, conditions would have to be right and you need someone who knows how to configure the network, and you need power at each location, but it would be worth a shot if you need a system you can use over and over again. You're either gonna pay a lot of money hiring someone or a lot of money to make it happen on your own.
Click to expand...

Ah, will have to have a look at this option as well, it's good we have a range of ways to do it.

Thanks!
 
Which ever way you decide to go, please keep us informed. I am sure most people who contributed to this thread would be very interested in what you find on your search for a solution.

Good luck

GG
 
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