C300: Will the FS7 finally knock the C300 off it's perch? What will Canon's response be?!!

It was in 2013. But the laptop they sent me had older versions of the NLE's on it. It only had one USB 2 port on it and honestly I wasn't impressed that
they were using it for a DIT machine (older, slower, small screen Macbook Pro) but of course I did the best I could with what they gave me.
I guess I wasn't really thinking about playing back directly off the cards, because I was most concerned that the files on the external drives
were there with both audio and video. Of course, it's also possible that the USB 2 port was part of the culprit, trying to play back HD video
off an external drive through USB 2? I dunno, but I couldn't for the life of me figure out any way to preview the files after I had transferred
them to the external drives. I tried everything I could think of, and I am pretty good with Mac computers, but I was definitely handicapped
by not having high speed internet. I would have probably just downloaded a trial version of Premiere CC or Avid if I had high speed internet
as they give you a 30 trial and this was about 10 days of work. I even asked them if I could take the laptop home at night to do this, but no
go. Such is the life when you are shooting pilot shows I guess (lower budgets and so on.)

Not trying to dis on the C300 because it gives an awesome picture. On the American Eagle shoot, We got some amazing looking stuff. We would
be back in the PO at night viewing the rushes from the C300 and the Epic on a big screen. Obviously the Epic was superior, but the C300 looked
awfully freaking good as well. I've just been unlucky and had some bad experiences with it (probably because they have always been rental
units, whereas my FS700 is my personal camera that I baby.) For example, on the American Eagle shoot, the top handle literally broke on us.
I never did like that 'one screw holding on the handle' design (which is a little reminiscent of the FS100), but I wasn't expecting it to break.
The Epic team was really giving us a hard time about our 'toy' camera after that happened. And to be fair, on the AE shoot we also had issues
with a GoPro Black which was also a rental cam. So my general takeaway is that rental gear gets treated 'less than optimally' in many cases.
 
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It's like Christmas morning and getting the hottest toy.
I like this camera a lot. It checks all the boxes for me and I want one. In fact I'm 99% sure i'm buying one. However I also know how this crazy world works and trust me bookmark this post.

Canon is going to come out with a camera that IS GOING TO COMPETE with the FS7. Canon isn't dead. Canon will have a camera that will make you want to buy it. Why? because they listened to us before any of the other guys did with the Cinema EOS cameras. You can thank Canon for this new Sony FS7.

Sony is learning and they haven't really cared about what the user wants for a long time. Just look at the horrible ergo cameras without even built in ND filters. LAME!

The good thing is Sony learned. They listened. They got creative. We win. I actually feel we will see cameras that are full featured and user friendly from both of these giants going forward. I'm thrilled!

Canon has a camera and I'm sure it's going to blow our minds if they dont I will be shocked.
 
Erik Naso said:
It's like Christmas morning and getting the hottest toy.
I like this camera a lot. It checks all the boxes for me and I want one. In fact I'm 99% sure i'm buying one. However I also know how this crazy world works and trust me bookmark this post.

Canon is going to come out with a camera that IS GOING TO COMPETE with the FS7. Canon isn't dead. Canon will have a camera that will make you want to buy it. Why? because they listened to us before any of the other guys did with the Cinema EOS cameras. You can thank Canon for this new Sony FS7.

Sony is learning and they haven't really cared about what the user wants for a long time. Just look at the horrible ergo cameras without even built in ND filters. LAME!

The good thing is Sony learned. They listened. They got creative. We win. I actually feel we will see cameras that are full featured and user friendly from both of these giants going forward. I'm thrilled!

Canon has a camera and I'm sure it's going to blow our minds if they dont I will be shocked.
Click to expand...

Yup. Pretty sure that's why Sony says this new camera 'doesn't compete with the FS700'
(even though it obviously does!). It has taken some ergonomic cues directly from the C300,
which is obviously who Sony wants to aim it at.
High frame rates, better ergonomics, 10 bit, 4k, it sure gets a lot right. Canon would be
certifiably insane to just continue to roll out the C300 against this cam. It's as sure as sure
things can be, that Canon will have an answer, they can't just stand still.
 
Erik Naso said:
Canon will have a camera that will make you want to buy it. Why? because they listened to us before any of the other guys did with the Cinema EOS cameras. You can thank Canon for this new Sony FS7.
Click to expand...
100%. Camera envy makes little sense - a good camera does nothing but push the whole market forward. The question is, however, when will Canon respond?
 
alaskacameradude said:
It's funny you say that. I was DIT on a TV show shot with the C300. I was using the production
company's laptop (it was a MacBook Pro). I could copy the files over just fine. But when I tried
to spot check them....big problem. There was not a single program on the laptop that could read
them. Not FCP X, not CS6. I downloaded MPEG streamclip. Nope. Downloaded Canon's own
software. Cool, now I could view the video, but no way to spot check the audio. In desperation,
I tried VLC. No dice.
I'm guessing one problem is that the mxf files are newer than FCP X and CS6 and that you must
buy plug ins to read those MXF files. But for Canon's own program to not work? Pretty lame in my
opinion. What do you typically use to view these files? I'm sure there is something out there, I just
couldn't find it. With the popularity of the C300 in TV productions there has to be something for just
quick viewing and listening to the rushes right?
Click to expand...

MplayerX in the Apple app store. Free and plays MXF no problem.
 
dustylense said:
MplayerX in the Apple app store. Free and plays MXF no problem.
Click to expand...

Dang it where were you a year ago! :cry: I knew there had to be something somewhere. Thanks for the heads up,
that looks exactly like what I need. I would have NEVER thought to look in the Apple app store. I mean that's
all consumer stuff right??
 
alaskacameradude said:
I would have NEVER thought to look in the Apple app store. I mean that's
all consumer stuff right??
Click to expand...

LOL - like FCPX! FWIW, I had the same issue with C300 rushes not working on my FCPX installation, when it would work just fine for a colleague. After a bit of poking around and comparing Library contents, we tracked it down to a buggy installer. If you find yourself in a similar situation, here's the story and a fix.

http://mattdavis.pro/2014/03/07/mxf-to-fcpx-not-working-a-possible-fix/
 
MattDavis said:
LOL - like FCPX! FWIW, I had the same issue with C300 rushes not working on my FCPX installation, when it would work just fine for a colleague. After a bit of poking around and comparing Library contents, we tracked it down to a buggy installer. If you find yourself in a similar situation, here's the story and a fix.

http://mattdavis.pro/2014/03/07/mxf-to-fcpx-not-working-a-possible-fix/
Click to expand...

Wow, that is a useful article, thanks a ton!!

By the way, I used to think FCP X was a consumer NLE. I am starting to rethink that decision as I
really like some of the improvements they have made (Libraries in the new version was a huge
improvement in my opinion.) It's getting better. Now if they'd only allow me to 'attach' secondary
storylines to other secondary storylines instead of forcing me to attach it to the primary storyline.......
Ooops, sorry for the off topic response. Back to the topic....

Go Canon Go! Make a FS7 killer camera!!! Hopefully the price will be competitive too right????
 
The FS7 is exciting. Like many of you say: it checks a lot of boxes with 10bit and framerates.

But... I have to say, I'm still looking for Sony FS700/A7s/FS7 that shows the same pleasing colors I get from my Canon. And I don't feel like I'm saying this in "rant mode". I've shot with the FS700 myself and I have some footage. It's not necessarily the roll-off into highlights, but more the color matrix. I guess it should be very gradable with the new codec options, but I don't want to struggle with skintones on every clip.

I guess I haven't quite fallen for the S-log variants.

Still, a nice package for an owner/operator and a good target for Canon's next round.
 
Saf Suleyman said:
Really exciting announcement today from Sony. A really great set of features at a great price point and a very attractive form factor. Can't wait to see side-by-sides with C300 and more to the point can't wait to see Canon finally bring out a new camera. I do fear it'll be extremely expensive whenever it does come out though :(

I own a C100 and adore it. This is the first of the new wave of releases that has really made me pay attention!!!

Thoughts?
Click to expand...

Not a chance.
 
AndreeOnline said:
FS7 ... a good target for Canon's next round.
Click to expand...

+1 on that. Canon is both a conservative and an innovative video camera company. It seems to 'spurt' rather than 'flow' with products, so when you bought into the C500/300/100, you'd know what you'd be getting for the next 5-7 years (like the XL1/2, the XF305). You're not expected to be hanging on every new little innovation, recycling your camera every two years, just buy it and shoot with it until the actual base format falls by the wayside.

FS7 has a great checkbox list, but we haven't seen the pictures. Also, if you own crates of EF-mount L series glass, it's still happiest on a Canon. The tap-to-focus of the FS700 is only for eMount lenses, the ultra fast Phase Detection worked with only certain minolta mount lenses with a special LE-EA2 mount, and using adaptors means you need to think about lens support for bigger lenses. These were all part of my move from FS100/FS700 to C100.

However, I have two aging but loved EX1s - I can see replacing THEM with an FS7 and maybe both the new lens and the 18-200 from the EA50. And of course a Metabones EF adaptor.

I just wish that 'the other shoe drops' on the AX100-->X70 - which, if it had CineGamma rather than CineTone, would be a shoo-in for EX1 replacement.

I'm not quite ready to give up my C100 yet! LOL
 
AndreeOnline said:
The FS7 is exciting. Like many of you say: it checks a lot of boxes with 10bit and framerates.

But... I have to say, I'm still looking for Sony FS700/A7s/FS7 that shows the same pleasing colors I get from my Canon. And I don't feel like I'm saying this in "rant mode". I've shot with the FS700 myself and I have some footage. It's not necessarily the roll-off into highlights, but more the color matrix. I guess it should be very gradable with the new codec options, but I don't want to struggle with skintones on every clip.

I guess I haven't quite fallen for the S-log variants.

Still, a nice package for an owner/operator and a good target for Canon's next round.
Click to expand...

Amen.
 
A geeky guy from Xitek analysed the RAW files from Sony, Canon and Nikon DSLRs using Matlab, he found out that Sony sacrificed colour depth for DR, one of the reasons why Sony colour looks weird.
 
marvinhello said:
A geeky guy from Xitek analysed the RAW files from Sony, Canon and Nikon DSLRs using Matlab, he found out that Sony sacrificed colour depth for DR, one of the reasons why Sony colour looks weird.
Click to expand...

Sounds like he was analyzing stills then. Not sure that applies
to the cinema cams like it does the DSLR'S. I personally
have not had any issues with Sony color, but then I don't shoot
with DSLRs either....
 
As usual Sony comes out with good specs. The colour out of the box from Sony is not pleasing to my eye. On the other hand Canon files look nice straight from the shoot and the director/producers like it.

Nearly three years after the launch of C300 we see competition. My clients don't need 4K but some are bowled over by the marketing hype. So having the ability to shoot in 4k, if the client wants it, is great. Higher frame rates is something we obviously need in the C300. On the other hand I am loving the dual pixel af. Wait for Canon's response.
 
Ive been thinking through this camera, basically the last bunch of Sonys 100,700 F3 and even F5 are tricky for colour.

My 5d2 looked cool out of the box, I have been shooting BMC4k recently and the colour on that is great. Partly becuase of the 'nailed' workflow - in that Davinci has a lut that makes BMC fill look look great.

I guess it has to be said that the colour of the C300 is good enough (personally Ive found the C100 too thin)

So the C300 has been the king of the hill for many small subtle reasons -

simple colour
unlike a F3/recorder it is solo portable

Im going to have a really good think as I will only buy this camera if I know that it will knock the C300 off the top spot.

Will it do that in reality? I think that is not too clear.

S
 
The trick to get great looking footage from a Sony s-log camera is to;

1: Set your camera with exposure and WB
2: Grade the footage

No Sony S35 camera with slog will look as pleasing as many Canon cameras including the 5Dmk2/3 is straight from the camera. On the other hand Slog gives the option of grading footage to match any taste. Something that can be difficult with the baked in Canon look.

To me Slog captures all that I can see and I know that in post I can tweak it to look just the way I want. But it requires camera and grading skills.
 
'Grading skills' - that is not really a sustainable workflow.

The thing with the BMC+Davinci is that the lut is completely on the money - so there is no 'grading skills' to get to a basic look (but the file is then ready for colouring using skill)

There is no (afaik) one click solid route from Slog (1) to a 709 look

--

Back to the FS7 - Den Lens footage looked like puke IMO - compared for example to the reel from the Coin.

S
 
Osslund said:
The trick to get great looking footage from a Sony s-log camera is to;

1: Set your camera with exposure and WB
2: Grade the footage

No Sony S35 camera with slog will look as pleasing as many Canon cameras including the 5Dmk2/3 is straight from the camera. On the other hand Slog gives the option of grading footage to match any taste. Something that can be difficult with the baked in Canon look.

To me Slog captures all that I can see and I know that in post I can tweak it to look just the way I want. But it requires camera and grading skills.
Click to expand...

To some extent I agree with what you said, however:

1. It does not apply to 8bit S-Log, including FS700 internal and A7S. Cramming 14 stops into compressed 8bit makes midtone suffer.

2. A lot of projects don't have time or budget for sophisticated grading work, in that case, a baked-in look with some minor tweaking is prefered.
 
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