Why no P2 Viewer for Mac?
- Thread starter Scott B
- Start date
bbalser
Veteran
I asked a Panny rep this, and the answer was, in my interpretation of the response, that Panasonic refuses to touch any software programming for the Mac. My impression was the Panasonic software engineers are very anti-Mac prejudice. I was told it would pretty much be a cold day in hell when Panny's software guys wrote Mac code.
Which I agree is strange considering that most HVX owners are FCP/Mac users. So Panny's software engineers hate the folks who's money makes up their paychecks.
But that's just my personal interpretation and opinion.
Which I agree is strange considering that most HVX owners are FCP/Mac users. So Panny's software engineers hate the folks who's money makes up their paychecks.
But that's just my personal interpretation and opinion.
Barry_Green
Moderator
The strange thing is, it's not just a majority of users on the Mac. It's a preposterously high supermajority, as near as I can tell. Every time I do a training session or a Q&A session, I ask who's on the Mac and who's on the PC. The average? 95% OF HVX USERS ARE ON THE MAC.
Yet all the better tools are on the PC. The PC platform has P2 tools that the Mac just doesn't.
1. The free P2 viewer
2. The ability to name & password-protect the name of your cards
3. The ability to name a card's volume (so that it shows up with its name and not "no name")
4. The ability to mount P2 cards on a P2 store in a folder on your hard disk (instead of having 15 "no name" volumes popping up on your desktop like the Mac does).
5. The ability to actually use the metadata.
6. The ability to edit natively off the cards instead of having to wait for it to convert your files to Quicktime movies (although I believe you could edit right from the cards on a Mac if you used Avid instead of FCP).
7. The ability to format a card on your computer(!) That's so incredibly useful, and the Mac doesn't allow it...
8. The ability to author MXF card images and copy them back out to the cards.
9. The fact that when using Mac OS, it doesn't always mount all the the volumes on the P2 Store, which can lead people to lose footage! You have to be doubly diligent to check that all your volumes mounted, or go into the disk utility to make sure that the volumes mounted, and to check it means counting the number of "no name" volumes that show up (because, again, the Mac can't preserve volume names).
10. The "glitch" that can happen on a Mac, apparently related to putting a card in the Mac that isn't write-protected.
11. The ability to update the firmware on your P2 cards; you can only run the firmware updater on a PC.
12. DV Rack 2.0 HD
13. You can get a $70 PCI->PCMCIA adapter card to read P2 cards on a PC desktop; none exists for the Mac. Why?
14. Macs eliminated the PCMCIA slot; PC laptops can still have it.
These are just the things I can think of off the top of my head. I simply don't understand why such disparity exists. If the Mac implementation was as robust as the PC implementation, I'd be all over the Mac. But the thing is, as near as I can tell, 95% of the customer base (at least among DVXUser membership, HVX BootCamp attendees, and the people who attend my other training seminars) are on the Mac and they're going to stay there. And they're getting a significantly inferior experience.
We need parity. Apple and Panasonic should get their act together and rectify these shortcomings ASAP.
Yet all the better tools are on the PC. The PC platform has P2 tools that the Mac just doesn't.
1. The free P2 viewer
2. The ability to name & password-protect the name of your cards
3. The ability to name a card's volume (so that it shows up with its name and not "no name")
4. The ability to mount P2 cards on a P2 store in a folder on your hard disk (instead of having 15 "no name" volumes popping up on your desktop like the Mac does).
5. The ability to actually use the metadata.
6. The ability to edit natively off the cards instead of having to wait for it to convert your files to Quicktime movies (although I believe you could edit right from the cards on a Mac if you used Avid instead of FCP).
7. The ability to format a card on your computer(!) That's so incredibly useful, and the Mac doesn't allow it...
8. The ability to author MXF card images and copy them back out to the cards.
9. The fact that when using Mac OS, it doesn't always mount all the the volumes on the P2 Store, which can lead people to lose footage! You have to be doubly diligent to check that all your volumes mounted, or go into the disk utility to make sure that the volumes mounted, and to check it means counting the number of "no name" volumes that show up (because, again, the Mac can't preserve volume names).
10. The "glitch" that can happen on a Mac, apparently related to putting a card in the Mac that isn't write-protected.
11. The ability to update the firmware on your P2 cards; you can only run the firmware updater on a PC.
12. DV Rack 2.0 HD
13. You can get a $70 PCI->PCMCIA adapter card to read P2 cards on a PC desktop; none exists for the Mac. Why?
14. Macs eliminated the PCMCIA slot; PC laptops can still have it.
These are just the things I can think of off the top of my head. I simply don't understand why such disparity exists. If the Mac implementation was as robust as the PC implementation, I'd be all over the Mac. But the thing is, as near as I can tell, 95% of the customer base (at least among DVXUser membership, HVX BootCamp attendees, and the people who attend my other training seminars) are on the Mac and they're going to stay there. And they're getting a significantly inferior experience.
We need parity. Apple and Panasonic should get their act together and rectify these shortcomings ASAP.
bbalser
Veteran
5. The ability to actually use the metadata.
I never understood what you mean by this, Barry?
But aside from that one point, Amen to the rest! Cause P2 is not just the HVX200...
I just heard an interview with someone from the BBC, who've adopted the P2 as their gold standard, that they've also adopted Final Cut Pro as their standard editing NLE. It just seems like a strange move to me.
UNLESS FCP 6 comes out at NAB and has the whole P2 thing totally wrapped up. We can only hope...
I never understood what you mean by this, Barry?
But aside from that one point, Amen to the rest! Cause P2 is not just the HVX200...
I just heard an interview with someone from the BBC, who've adopted the P2 as their gold standard, that they've also adopted Final Cut Pro as their standard editing NLE. It just seems like a strange move to me.
UNLESS FCP 6 comes out at NAB and has the whole P2 thing totally wrapped up. We can only hope...
Read Barry's book on meta data, and is does explain some things and usefulness.
However, I'm not as convinced as Barry is about the usefulness of meta data.
Also, I'm seeing fewer and fewer PC laptops with PC Card Type II slots in them.
EC/34 is also penetrating the PC market as well. With the duel systems adapter, perhaps this issue will be resolved.
As to the other PC centrics attitudes at Panasonic, it is unfortunate at best and a near total disregard of the company's huge percentage of its user market.
The company ought to take a hard look at its attitudes and approach to Mac users.
However, I'm not as convinced as Barry is about the usefulness of meta data.
Also, I'm seeing fewer and fewer PC laptops with PC Card Type II slots in them.
EC/34 is also penetrating the PC market as well. With the duel systems adapter, perhaps this issue will be resolved.
As to the other PC centrics attitudes at Panasonic, it is unfortunate at best and a near total disregard of the company's huge percentage of its user market.
The company ought to take a hard look at its attitudes and approach to Mac users.
Let me put it this way: I have been looking for months now for a proper workflow in post on an Avid for long form shows and films. Everyone I have spoken with so far who has used a P2 camera in their shooting has ended up transfering their material to tape before capturing it into the Avid (and yes, on Macs). There is a slight disconnect going on.
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No offense, but 100% of Avid users probably make up less than 1% of all HVX users, and the fact that those people go to tape first means that they don't quite "get" it.
With better P2/MXF support in Avid, nobody in their right mind would waste their time on using such a complicated, time-consuming, and less capable workflow.
With better P2/MXF support in Avid, nobody in their right mind would waste their time on using such a complicated, time-consuming, and less capable workflow.
95% OF HVX USERS ARE ON THE MAC.
Yet all the better tools are on the PC. The PC platform has P2 tools that the Mac just doesn't.
1. The free P2 viewer
2. The ability to name & password-protect the name of your cards
3. The ability to name a card's volume (so that it shows up with its name and not "no name")
4. The ability to mount P2 cards on a P2 store in a folder on your hard disk (instead of having 15 "no name" volumes popping up on your desktop like the Mac does).
5. The ability to actually use the metadata.
6. The ability to edit natively off the cards instead of having to wait for it to convert your files to Quicktime movies (although I believe you could edit right from the cards on a Mac if you used Avid instead of FCP).
7. The ability to format a card on your computer(!) That's so incredibly useful, and the Mac doesn't allow it...
8. The ability to author MXF card images and copy them back out to the cards.
9. The fact that when using Mac OS, it doesn't always mount all the the volumes on the P2 Store, which can lead people to lose footage! You have to be doubly diligent to check that all your volumes mounted, or go into the disk utility to make sure that the volumes mounted, and to check it means counting the number of "no name" volumes that show up (because, again, the Mac can't preserve volume names).
10. The "glitch" that can happen on a Mac, apparently related to putting a card in the Mac that isn't write-protected.
11. The ability to update the firmware on your P2 cards; you can only run the firmware updater on a PC.
12. DV Rack 2.0 HD
13. You can get a $70 PCI->PCMCIA adapter card to read P2 cards on a PC desktop; none exists for the Mac. Why?
14. Macs eliminated the PCMCIA slot; PC laptops can still have it.
These are just the things I can think of off the top of my head.
We need parity. Apple and Panasonic should get their act together and rectify these shortcomings ASAP.[/QUOTE]
Now that the MacBook Pro is a PC with a modified MacOS X running on it, a simple addition of Parallels and Windows XP can help aleviate those troubles. Since you can run Windows and MacOS X concurrently, and the Duel Systems P2 adapter to Express34 slot is about to ship (13-14), I would think things are about to change?? Hopefull RedLightening can ship their HD (12) version that will supposedly "blow" DVRack HD from the planet???:thumbup:
Yet all the better tools are on the PC. The PC platform has P2 tools that the Mac just doesn't.
1. The free P2 viewer
2. The ability to name & password-protect the name of your cards
3. The ability to name a card's volume (so that it shows up with its name and not "no name")
4. The ability to mount P2 cards on a P2 store in a folder on your hard disk (instead of having 15 "no name" volumes popping up on your desktop like the Mac does).
5. The ability to actually use the metadata.
6. The ability to edit natively off the cards instead of having to wait for it to convert your files to Quicktime movies (although I believe you could edit right from the cards on a Mac if you used Avid instead of FCP).
7. The ability to format a card on your computer(!) That's so incredibly useful, and the Mac doesn't allow it...
8. The ability to author MXF card images and copy them back out to the cards.
9. The fact that when using Mac OS, it doesn't always mount all the the volumes on the P2 Store, which can lead people to lose footage! You have to be doubly diligent to check that all your volumes mounted, or go into the disk utility to make sure that the volumes mounted, and to check it means counting the number of "no name" volumes that show up (because, again, the Mac can't preserve volume names).
10. The "glitch" that can happen on a Mac, apparently related to putting a card in the Mac that isn't write-protected.
11. The ability to update the firmware on your P2 cards; you can only run the firmware updater on a PC.
12. DV Rack 2.0 HD
13. You can get a $70 PCI->PCMCIA adapter card to read P2 cards on a PC desktop; none exists for the Mac. Why?
14. Macs eliminated the PCMCIA slot; PC laptops can still have it.
These are just the things I can think of off the top of my head.
We need parity. Apple and Panasonic should get their act together and rectify these shortcomings ASAP.[/QUOTE]
Now that the MacBook Pro is a PC with a modified MacOS X running on it, a simple addition of Parallels and Windows XP can help aleviate those troubles. Since you can run Windows and MacOS X concurrently, and the Duel Systems P2 adapter to Express34 slot is about to ship (13-14), I would think things are about to change?? Hopefull RedLightening can ship their HD (12) version that will supposedly "blow" DVRack HD from the planet???:thumbup:
Barry_Green
Moderator
Not sure what you meant there; Avid XPress Pro HD and NewsCutter (and other products in their line) allow direct editing from the cards and don't involve tape anywhere along the line.
ShootDC
Active member
I am just jumping into the P2 pool. I have a PC laptop and a QuadCore for editing. Can I use all the free software and benefits of using a PC laptop in the field for acquisition and still have a smooth workflow to the Mac if I have loaded everything onto an external HD?
Can the two systems both be compatible with an external HD and the files/data and play nice together?
thanks
Can the two systems both be compatible with an external HD and the files/data and play nice together?
thanks
I'm saying anyone who uses an HVX and then dumps to tape, and then captures from the tape in order to load their video into Avid misses out on many of the benefits of P2 and MXF. Scott B said that everyone he has talked to uses that workflow, which boggles my mind.
The restrictions on where you can place MXF files (as described in THIS Sticky in the Avid forum) so that Avid can see them is also difficult to understand.
The restrictions on where you can place MXF files (as described in THIS Sticky in the Avid forum) so that Avid can see them is also difficult to understand.
Barry_Green
Moderator
Yes, I've done it that way many times.ShootDC said:
sick boy
Well-known member
is there any solution yet to plugging a p2 card into a macbook pro's express34 slot? I have had a hard time finding a usb/firewire to cardbus adapter for a mac laptop, which is one reason why I am sticking with the fs100, since I dont have the issue of dumping footage in the field. The way I see it, if I go the p2 route, I would rather spend and extre $500 for a macbook and a cardbus reader than buy a pc laptop, for I like macs 
I want to get another macbook pro but I would hope there is a solution available for the express34 slot.
I want to get another macbook pro but I would hope there is a solution available for the express34 slot.
The problem is that a television or film project might have 100 hours of source material from which the final show is edited. If this media is somehow lost or corrupted during the editorial process, it is essential that there be a direct link to the original source media. In the Avid, if the media goes "offline," the program directs you to re-capture the clips from the indicated tape (all the assistant editor needs to do is insert the tapes as they are called for). You can imagine what would happen if you must deliver a show in twelve hours and you lose some MXF files in the Avid Mediafiles/mxf/1 folder and there is no way to automatically recapture them from your original source. This is why productions are transfering P2 media to tape to before editing.
I believe that digital files SHOULD simplify this process and make it easier. My dilemma is that I have not yet found a solution to this problem.
I believe that digital files SHOULD simplify this process and make it easier. My dilemma is that I have not yet found a solution to this problem.
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Where is Panasonic in this discussion? There is still no answer to my original question; given that nearly the entire television and film industry is Mac based, why is there no P2 Viewer for a Mac?
It may be convenient to blame Apple or Avid or whomever (as I've seen in other places in these forums) ... but if Panasonic themselves do not support the P2 workflow for what would seem to be their most obvious audience, they should not be surprised if others are slow to do so.
It may be convenient to blame Apple or Avid or whomever (as I've seen in other places in these forums) ... but if Panasonic themselves do not support the P2 workflow for what would seem to be their most obvious audience, they should not be surprised if others are slow to do so.
Take_1
Well-known member
However, that said...
With the new Intel Macs working as well as they have been so far and Avid software is given for both platforms when you purchase it... I would not be at all surprised to see the swing go back towards the Mac side. Unless of course, someone comes up with a Mac Bootcamp for PC...
With the new Intel Macs working as well as they have been so far and Avid software is given for both platforms when you purchase it... I would not be at all surprised to see the swing go back towards the Mac side. Unless of course, someone comes up with a Mac Bootcamp for PC...