Why no P2 Viewer for Mac?

[Disco Robo]

1. FCP isn't free but c'mon who has an HVX+cards+laptop and no software.
2. False/true
3. False
6. False
7. P2 Genie
9&10 Never happened, knock on wood
12. Scopebox
15. Shake
16. Drumroll please...............Bootcamp
Other than that I agree.

 

[ifownlee41nite@mac.com]

That one of the reasons I don't own a HVX200. Panasonic really needs to get with it!!!!

 

[Barry_Green]

Disco Robo, care to elaborate? Simply saying "false" doesn't exactly help.

2. False/true

Some elaboration would be nice. On the PC you can use the P2 Card manager software and assign a name to the card. This name shows up in P2 Card manager, P2 Store manager, and in the camera itself when you go to "card properties". You can assign a password to the card so that nobody can change that name. Great for inventory control and to make sure nobody absconds with your cards.

As far as I know the Mac provides no such similar access to naming those cards and assigning the password.

3. False

So you're saying that you can name a P2 Card's volume so that it doesn't show up on the desktop saying "no name"? On the PC I can name the volume something like "Card One" and "Card Two" and when putting it in the system, it pops up in Explorer as something like "K: Card One". I am under the understanding that the Mac doesn't allow that and the cards always show up as "No Name".

6. False

How can you say this is false?

7. P2 Genie

P2 Genie doesn't format cards, because the Mac cannot format a card. P2 Genie erases the cards, but it doesn't execute an actual format.

9&10 Never happened, knock on wood

Never happened TO YOU, but it's happened to dozens if not hundreds of people, judging by the reports and screen captures here, and on the Cow, and on DVInfo, and other places. It happens. As far as the "disappearing volumes" goes, Panasonic's gone so far as to write a white paper/tech bulletin describing the situation and how to overcome it. To say "never happened" is akin to saying "I don't know why people complain about Russian Roulette; I tried it, I pulled the trigger and I didn't get shot, so everyone who says they did is just exaggerating" or something. The issues are there and they need to be fixed.

12. Scopebox

Scopebox ain't DV Rack, Scopebox isn't in the same league as DV Rack. But, you're right, this isn't a P2 issue and I shouldn't have put it on the list. A better answer would have been "BootCamp" because that would let you run DV Rack.

15. Shake

Shake isn't a P2 issue, and doesn't have anything to do with P2 cards or the HVX.

16. Drumroll please...............Bootcamp

That's the right answer. It solves all the issues but one, which is the card slot, but the Duel Adapter takes care of that.

 

[Shane Ross]

There is a few issues happening here that many people might not be aware of, and why many people are dumping P2 to tape before they capture.

First is that many TV networks will not accept P2 data files...MXF files...as source footage. When a production wraps, the networks (such as the Discovery Channel) require that the production company turn over all the source tapes to them...since the footage does belong to them. And they will not accept hard drives or DVDs or other data format as source footage. It HAS to be tape.

Second, many of these production companies are using old Avids...Meridians running OS9...perhaps all on a UNITY system...for offline. They are HEAVILY invested in these systems and buying new systems is not something that they can do...or are prepared to pay for. What they have works. They have a system in place that works, so why change it JUST because now they have some footage on P2? These companies offline on the Meridians, then online at a post facility running Symphony. This worked in the past, still works now...they spent hundreds of thousands of dollars to get this system in place...why change?

That is one of the biggest stumbling blocks in Hollywood...what we have works...why change? You can say, "this works better" and it falls on deaf ears. "What we have works...when it won't, then we'll consider change."

I worked on a job shot on Varicam...a series for National Geographic. We offlined on Meridians, then when it came time to online...there was a snag. The online facility was only set up for 1080i, and we had 720p footage, and the network wanted a 720p master. And there were capture issued with the Nitris Symphony that I don't understand fully...but they captured at one codec, but couldn't output it to the deliverable, because they didn't have the right codec. I think they captured at 1080i, then tried to output 720p. Anyway...the entire series went $250,000 OVER BUDGET because of this. Until they got the bright idea to output 1080i, then downconvert at a post facility. But hey, HD was very new to all involved.

Then I come along with my FCP system, editing DVCPRO HD...Varicam and HVX mixed...from my house...taking 720p 23.98 and outputting 1080p 23.98 ON THE FLY...and it blows their minds. But will they update? No. What they have works...now that they know how to make it work. They have their investment, and they are sticking with it until they can't figure out any work arounds.

So...tapes required for delivery and companies using old systems that cannot read MXF files...those are the main reasons....out here anyway.

 

[Disco Robo]

I thought this was a Panasonic/Mac support issue not limited to P2? I am merely pointing out that some of these statements are in error or don't take into consideration the alternatives as if there is only one solution. P2 genie and scopebox while not the exact same thing perform similar functions. You can name cards, click on the card twice(not double) and name it. You can edit FROM the cards albeit not natively(although the original mxf data is unchanged) but the quicktime wrapper makes dealing with MXF much simpler in many ways and the process is negligibly slower than importing MXF.

Don't get me wrong. Apple has completely fallen off since the creation of the iPod. It's like their pro division doesn't even exist anymore. FCP hasn't been updated with anything other than bug fixes and format updates for about 3 years. However it's incorrect to state the mac platform is any less capable for a handfull of pc aps which will run on the mac anyway using Apple's own Bootcamp.

 

[bbalser]

Apple has completely fallen off since the creation of the iPod. It's like their pro division doesn't even exist anymore. FCP hasn't been updated with anything other than bug fixes and format updates for about 3 years.

I have to majorly disagree. Three years ago you were using FCP 4. There's HUGE upgrades since then. Multiclip to name just one. Totally rewritten code. It handles color spaces and profiles much better than most. FCP has come light years from where it was three years ago.

 

[Scott B]

Barry, did I understand you correctly that both P2 Viewer and DV Rack run fine on a MacBook in Bootcamp?

Also, can P2 Viewer create virtual P2 Cards from files in folders? Or does the media need to be accessed from P2 cards like in Mac Disk Utility?

And Shane, I agree with you, to an extent. I have run into some of the same issues, where people are based in older versions of Avid. However, the problem I am running up against right now is with the most recent version of Xpress Pro. It is not that the program has trouble with the 720P files. It's that at this point I have no way of tracking the media back to its original source once it is entered into Avid using the workflow that everyone is recommending: moving the files into the Avid Mediafiles/mxf/1 folder and using Media Tool to recognize them.

I gather that the tools I need to create Virtual P2 cards that the Avid can recognize may be available (hopefully) ... but only in a Windows based environment.

Is a version of the P2 Viewer manual available anywhere that Macs can open? Not having a PC, I can't even access the damn manual. On my Macs it doesn't show up on the DVD nor in the download. So I can read the things that Barry says the program is capable of, but I am unable to find out for myself. I'm loathe to go purchase another computer just to find out if maybe it will work for me...

Where is Panasonic? Where is Jan Crittendon? Can YOU explain why Panasonic is not supporting its new format for Macs? Do we in the long-form film and television world really not rate?

 

[Dan Montgomery]

Not to mention Ben, that there was this little thing called Intel-Mac ... causing the need for a major rewrite of FCP under the hood...

I don't understand this thread's basis. There are numerous ways to view P2 footage on the Mac, including several NLEs and our own P2 Log and HD Log applications. These didn't happen without Panasonic's encouragement and lobbying (we added P2 support to an existing product).

So why are you still beating them up? Because they didn't give away another freebie?

Do you want them to focus on providing quality , economical cameras--or become a software publisher?

 

[Scott B]

Dan,

I like the HVX. I like shooting with it. I like the promise of tapeless workflow. But so far, as a producer, I have spent an unfortunate amount of time trouble-shooting technical issues... time that would be more profitably spent on creative things.

Using P2 requires erasing your orignal media. This requires a different level of surety and support.

 

[Barry_Green]

Barry, did I understand you correctly that both P2 Viewer and DV Rack run fine on a MacBook in Bootcamp?

That's my understanding, yes.

Also, can P2 Viewer create virtual P2 Cards from files in folders?

Yep.

Is a version of the P2 Viewer manual available anywhere that Macs can open?

It's distributed as a PDF file, so you certainly should be able to open it on a Mac...

 

[THoff]

Be aware that the virtual P2 cards created in P2 Viewer are only visible from within P2 Viewer -- you can't access those cards from your NLE.

 

[Barry_Green]

??? You can make a virtual card on the hard disk, then copy that to a card and play it in-camera or import it into an NLE.

 

[Scott B]

If this is true, Barry, that I can create virtual P2 cards from the files created from our shoot, it may be a solution to my single largest problem. (Albeit an expensive one, given that it requires the purchase of a Windows compatible computer.)

Has anyone actually done this? And then imported the virtual P2 files into an Avid?

 

[RyanT]

P2 Genie doesn't format cards, because the Mac cannot format a card. P2 Genie erases the cards, but it doesn't execute an actual format.

Now, I'm just starting to get into the whole P2 workflow and I'm just wondering what's the drawbacks to doing this erasing of the card rather than a straight format of it?

 

[Barry_Green]

If this is true, Barry, that I can create virtual P2 cards from the files created from our shoot, it may be a solution to my single largest problem.

P2 Viewer can make virtual cards out of files from various cards and copy and combine files into a new virtual card.

If you're talking about making a virtual card from files that you've edited, that would require either EDIUS as your editor (since it can directly output card images) or Avid 5.7 (which apparently has added that capability) or using DVFilm Raylight to output the files, which can then be run through the P2 Maker utility from Raylight.

(Albeit an expensive one, given that it requires the purchase of a Windows compatible computer.)

Or running BootCamp/WinXP on an Intel Mac.

Has anyone actually done this? And then imported the virtual P2 files into an Avid?

I've used P2 Viewer to make a new virtual card, which I've then imported into EDIUS, so it would work exactly the same.

 

[THoff]

??? You can make a virtual card on the hard disk, then copy that to a card and play it in-camera or import it into an NLE.

True. What I'm saying is that you can't create a virtual P2 card this way and see that card in your NLE -- you have to output it back to a physical P2 card that is mounted as a drive.

 

[Dan Montgomery]

True. What I'm saying is that you can't create a virtual P2 card this way and see that card in your NLE -- you have to output it back to a physical P2 card that is mounted as a drive.

Um, I don't know about Panny's free viewer...but for MAC, you can do this using <link removed>. Open more than one P2 volume at a time, drag and drop clips between them, or output as a NEW P2 VOLUME (under SAVE AS). This will copy the appropriate clips and make a new CONTENTS folder et al of just the clips you want.

Absolutely no need to save back to a card or the camera.

Is this want you want/need for outputting to Avid?

 

[THoff]

You can open multiple virtual P2 cards in P2 Viewer and copy files between them, delete clips, play them etc.

What this doesn't do is create a volume that you can access from outside P2 Viewer unless that program can open up CONTENTS folders in any location -- my understanding is that Avid can't do this, for instance.

 

[Barry_Green]

True. What I'm saying is that you can't create a virtual P2 card this way and see that card in your NLE -- you have to output it back to a physical P2 card that is mounted as a drive.

Not in my experience. You make a new folder for the virtual card, copy clips into it, and then it's a "virtual card" which can be imported into any MXF-aware NLE, or copied back to a physical card.

Unless I'm not understanding you...

 

[Mark Smith]

As for naming P2 cards...

As for naming P2 cards...

I use use an HVX extensively and have a mac book as my digital changing bag, running p2 Genie, P2 log pro and HD log.

I also use Pathfinder which is an aftermarket finder replacement. Its like the finder for grownups... any way I just discovered that in pathfinder when I mount cards with my PCD20, I can select a card , get info and rename the card and save that name. For whatever reason I also find that pathfinder is more reliable in terms of showing all P2 volumes in my 5 slot reader than the Finder for whatever reason.