Why no one noticed Sound Devices USBPre 2 here?

[Vitaliy Kiselev]

Introduced in September. But I didn't find any mentioning about it.
I think that this thing is really nice.
Plus it can work with just 5V plugged using USB cord as very very good standalone preamp and AD converter (directly stated in docs).
Add cheap laptop or chinese Atom based 7" tablet. And here you go.
SPDIF digital recorder is also an option.

 

[dasbin]

Well, there are countless little USB or Firewire 2-channel interfaces that are very useful for this sort of thing. Just curious, any reason besides the flexibility of being able to use it in standalone mode that you like this better than others?
I just use a little Mackie Onyx Satellite. Sounds good, and I'm an audio guy first. IMHO most people aren't using good enough mics to justify top-end preamps. Especially lavs.

Of course for multi-channel stuff (really useful mixing lavs on their own channels in post) I bring my 8-pre ADAT rig.


This unit looks cool and the specs are good. Getting +48v as well as preamps from USB power is pretty impressive. I do question how they do it though. Clean linear PSU's with plenty of amperage headroom are best for audio. Hard to do from 5V 500ma. You usually need to get out of it at least 5v, 12v, and 48v (which often turns out to be more like 24v on these little things, which is not good when used with many certain mics).

 

[Vitaliy Kiselev]

Well, there are countless little USB or Firewire 2-channel interfaces that are very useful for this sort of thing. Just curious, any reason besides the flexibility of being able to use it in standalone mode that you like this better than others?
I just use a little Mackie Onyx Satellite. Sounds good, and I'm an audio guy first.

Of course for multi-channel stuff (really useful mixing lavs on their own channels in post) I bring my 8-pre ADAT rig.

Many things make it better then others (I really know only cheap ART model that can work at standalone mode) considering this forum topic
Like proper levels.
Like switchable limiters.
Plus it is SD device, so preamps are much much better (claimed to be the same as top 7 series recorders).
And it is most important thing really.
I can count many other things.
Look at manual at their site.

 

[AdrianF]

There are a few USB boxes that work in standalone mode, but with the caveat that you need a PSU. This looks very nice.

 

[Vitaliy Kiselev]

5V is not a problem.
Buy something like this - http://cgi.ebay.com/5V-9V-12V-DC-Re...571?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item230ae3cc9b
And use small USB cable.

 

[AdrianF]

I wonder if that could power other USB interfaces that work in standalone, or that have pass through? Interesting.

The other one that I've come across, but doesn't seem to get a lot of mention, is the Motu Traveller, which can utilise field battery packs.
http://www.motu.com/products/motuaudio/traveler-mk3/mobile-op.html

 

[shaveblog]

I haven't tried this unit Vitaliy describes but I've tried mother USB-powered mic pres from M-Audio et al and I haven't been as happy with the sound as compared to the Symmetrix SX202 I've been leaning on for remotes for many years. Yes it's got a wall wart but the 15VDC rail is nice for low noise and distortion. Not sure ICs work as well running off a typically current starved 5VDC USB bus, especially when trying to serve a couple of phantom powered mics. Symmetrix plugs straight into the MacBook's analog ins. I've tested some USB A/Ds but none offer any improvement over going straight into the MacBook.

I recently took delivery of a Zoom H1, however, and I can definitely see the days of hauling the Symmetrix and an extension cable as being numbered. No phantom 48DC but the onboard micas are good and it works great with battery powered lavs like the AT.

I wonder if that could power other USB interfaces that work in standalone, or that have pass through? Interesting.

The other one that I've come across, but doesn't seem to get a lot of mention, is the Motu Traveller, which can utilise field battery packs.
http://www.motu.com/products/motuaudio/traveler-mk3/mobile-op.html

 

[Vitaliy Kiselev]

I haven't tried this unit Vitaliy describes but I've tried mother USB-powered mic pres from M-Audio et al and I haven't been as happy with the sound as compared to the Symmetrix SX202 I've been leaning on for remotes for many years. Yes it's got a wall wart but the 15VDC rail is nice for low noise and distortion. Not sure ICs work as well running off a typically current starved 5VDC USB bus, especially when trying to serve a couple of phantom powered mics. Symmetrix plugs straight into the MacBook's analog ins. I've tested some USB A/Ds but none offer any improvement over going straight into the MacBook.

Looking at specs this thing must in another class compared to all you tried
MacBook inputs are not good (but not very bad either). ADC in this thing is 96KHz/24bit and clearly better than in any integrated sound chip in computers (which cost about $1-2 btw).

I recently took delivery of a Zoom H1, however, and I can definitely see the days of hauling the Symmetrix and an extension cable as being numbered. No phantom 48DC but the onboard micas are good and it works great with battery powered lavs like the AT.

I am not big fan of this Zoom.
I like Yamaha and Tascam small recorders much more.
Other thing I do not understand is why you need powered lavs with this thing Most of such recorders have plug-in power.

 

[shaveblog]

Yes, looking at the specs, the Sound Devices seems a cut above the M-Audios etc. But I remain skeptical it can do a good quiet balanced mic pre, A/D, and phantom 48V running off a USB bus. It's just an iffy place I don't like to go when working.

I know most laptops onboard audio is mediocre but Apple does a better job than most. My MacBook's analog input is quiet, clean, and perfectly suited to high quality 2-channel recording when used with a good pre.

I suggest trying the H1 before dismissing it. It is not built like a tank, and in fact I fully expect to crunch mine and have to replace it within a year, tops. But for $99, it's unbeatable. I like the Tascam's build quality better but the mic array is narrowly spaced omni, not much better than mono. The Zoom's X-Y array is much better for true stereo field recording if you care about accurate imagine and soundstage. I didn't think Yamaha's offerings in this space were competitive, I'll have to take another look at them. But I'm more than pleased with the H1, it's actually exceeded my expectations. FWIW I'm using it at 24/48, which doubles the recording time and is audibly and measurably indistinguishable. Maybe if they revive DVD-Audio and I'm called upon to record a dulcimer quartet demo disc for Yamaha to play at trade shows I'll up it to 96 just to keep up appearances.

You're correct, you don't need a powered lav if it can work with a powered unbalanced 1/8" input like the Zoom's. I just have the cheap and excellent AT which does have a battery, and they're only pennies apiece on eBay so I haven't been motivated to cut the battery bulge off and rewire it for off-board power. I like the idea of dedicated current stores however, so devices aren't sharing the same straw, especially when we're talking about an entire recording chain from mic to pre to recorder operating off a single AA for hours.

Looking at specs this thing must in another class compared to all you tried
MacBook inputs are not good (but not very bad either). ADC in this thing is 96KHz/24bit and clearly better than in any integrated sound chip in computers (which cost about $1-2 btw).



I am not big fan of this Zoom.
I like Yamaha and Tascam small recorders much more.
Other thing I do not understand is why you need powered lavs with this thing Most of such recorders have plug-in power.

 

[shaveblog]

So I just went over to B&H's site to look at the Sound Devices unit. $650. Perhaps that's why the relative lack of chatter? It may be excellent but that's a lot of coin for a 2-channel USB pre, especially considering current broadcast standards where a Flip's built-in mic is considered acceptable for network news remotes.

 

[Razz16mm]

I use a Motu Ultra-lite firewire preamp, $550 or so typically, with my Toshiba laptop for FFT analyzer front end. But I bought it because it has full linear SMPTE time code support, including jam sync and master capability. It has two XLR mic/line inputs and 8 balanced line ins on 1/3" TRS jacks. The preamps are really clean superb class A with lots of headroom and on my calibrated test rig a noise floor better than -110dB relative to a calibration reference of 115dB SPL .
I plan to use it with my laptop for recording direct feeds off of live event small group mixing consoles for post mix down masters. I will use it with two Scarlets, for performance docs.

 

[Vitaliy Kiselev]

I know most laptops onboard audio is mediocre but Apple does a better job than most. My MacBook's analog input is quiet, clean, and perfectly suited to high quality 2-channel recording when used with a good pre.

Generally, it is same chip as in 90% of good quality PC motherboards. Line input is pretty acceptable But you must constantly look at very strange things, like DMA usage by devices, DVD usage, USB overload by external HDDs, as all this could cause nasty things with your audio

I suggest trying the H1 before dismissing it. It is not built like a tank, and in fact I fully expect to crunch mine and have to replace it within a year, tops. But for $99, it's unbeatable. I like the Tascam's build quality better but the mic array is narrowly spaced omni, not much better than mono. The Zoom's X-Y array is much better for true stereo field recording if you care about accurate imagine and soundstage. I didn't think Yamaha's offerings in this space were competitive, I'll have to take another look at them. But I'm more than pleased with the H1, it's actually exceeded my expectations. FWIW I'm using it at 24/48, which doubles the recording time and is audibly and measurably indistinguishable. Maybe if they revive DVD-Audio and I'm called upon to record a dulcimer quartet demo disc for Yamaha to play at trade shows I'll up it to 96 just to keep up appearances.

I tell you little secret. Capsules in almost all recorders are in fact using XY pattern. They are just turned inside their housings, so you do not see this.

You're correct, you don't need a powered lav if it can work with a powered unbalanced 1/8" input like the Zoom's. I just have the cheap and excellent AT which does have a battery, and they're only pennies apiece on eBay so I haven't been motivated to cut the battery bulge off and rewire it for off-board power. I like the idea of dedicated current stores however, so devices aren't sharing the same straw, especially when we're talking about an entire recording chain from mic to pre to recorder operating off a single AA for hours.

I'll tell you another secret. None of lavalier manufacturers (at least in consumer and prosumer range) make electret capsules.
And lavalier is generally simple wired electret capsule.
Best one from relatively cheap is discontinued Panasonic WM60A (new variations also exist).
Funny thing that you could find it from high priced lavaliers to old Panasonic DECT phones
Also, lavalier is very dependent on glued silk screen on top of the capsule.
I made many lavalier measurements and sometimes just replacing this screen could make completely different sounding mike

 

[Vitaliy Kiselev]

So I just went over to B&H's site to look at the Sound Devices unit. $650. Perhaps that's why the relative lack of chatter? It may be excellent but that's a lot of coin for a 2-channel USB pre, especially considering current broadcast standards where a Flip's built-in mic is considered acceptable for network news remotes.

Of course, if you want to talk about Flip level it is not very nice selection.
But you find on this forum very much data on SD recorders (up to $7000), and SD field mixers (normally >$1000).
So, $600 is normal and very affordable price for SD product.
It is durable, very usable and well made.

 

[kwoff]

I use a Motu Ultra-lite firewire preamp, $550 or so typically, with my Toshiba laptop for FFT analyzer front end. But I bought it because it has full linear SMPTE time code support, including jam sync and master capability. It has two XLR mic/line inputs and 8 balanced line ins on 1/3" TRS jacks. The preamps are really clean superb class A with lots of headroom and on my calibrated test rig a noise floor better than -110dB relative to a calibration reference of 115dB SPL .
I plan to use it with my laptop for recording direct feeds off of live event small group mixing consoles for post mix down masters. I will use it with two Scarlets, for performance docs.

I am quite satisfied with my MOTU UltraLite aa well. I don't think you mentioned that, like the Traveler, it can also be used stand-alone, but it dies not take a battery pack.

 

[shaveblog]

Yes, I'm aware that many of these products use the Panasonic electret elements. I've been rolling my own mics for years using these capsules, very nice for $2 ea., especially if you do the Linkwitz mod to optimize the FET and seal the back with glue. I've got a few dozen WM61s left I'm saving for god knows what.

I agree about the screen, it makes a big difference. In fact, one mind-blower I like to pull at sessions is to suggest removing the windscreen from a Shure SM57 and using it as a vocal mic. Not for a pop session but for really critical work. People get cross-eyed when they hear what a stupid cheap SM57 sounds like without its windscreen screwed on. It's not just better, it's up there with any touchy mic in the locker. A fun parlour trick.

Generally, it is same chip as in 90% of good quality PC motherboards. Line input is pretty acceptable But you must constantly look at very strange things, like DMA usage by devices, DVD usage, USB overload by external HDDs, as all this could cause nasty things with your audio




I tell you little secret. Capsules in almost all recorders are in fact using XY pattern. They are just turned inside their housings, so you do not see this.



I'll tell you another secret. None of lavalier manufacturers (at least in consumer and prosumer range) make electret capsules.
And lavalier is generally simple wired electret capsule.
Best one from relatively cheap is discontinued Panasonic WM60A (new variations also exist).
Funny thing that you could find it from high priced lavaliers to old Panasonic DECT phones
Also, lavalier is very dependent on glued silk screen on top of the capsule.
I made many lavalier measurements and sometimes just replacing this screen could make completely different sounding mike

 

[dasbin]

People get cross-eyed when they hear what a stupid cheap SM57 sounds like without its windscreen screwed on. It's not just better, it's up there with any touchy mic in the locker. A fun parlour trick.

Well, I don't notice much difference to the SM's with or without windscreen myself, but it probably lets a bit more high-end through. (BTW, SM58 and SM57 are the exact same mic with a different windscreen design).

There is another common trick out there though, which is to bypass the transformer in these mics. Just take it out and wire the capsule straight to the XLR output. You get a smoother more open high-end. This is actually the same sound of the expensive SM7, which uses the same capsule but with a better transformer. No transformer is even more transparent, but you need to throw a lot of gain at it in your preamp as the impedance changes signficantly.

 

[shaveblog]

Maybe I wasn't clear? I meant the screw-on capsule top, not the foam ball. In other words, exposed element. With a good clean pre the SM57 sounds magnificent this way.

Didn't know the SM7 had the same capsule, I have one and like it a lot. Not as much as the old SM5B though, lovely mic.

Well, I don't notice much difference to the SM's with or without windscreen myself, but it probably lets a bit more high-end through. (BTW, SM58 and SM57 are the exact same mic with a different windscreen design).

There is another common trick out there though, which is to bypass the transformer in these mics. Just take it out and wire the capsule straight to the XLR output. You get a smoother more open high-end. This is actually the same sound of the expensive SM7, which uses the same capsule but with a better transformer. No transformer is even more transparent, but you need to throw a lot of gain at it in your preamp as the impedance changes signficantly.

 

[johnnym]

The TC Konnekt8 and Konnekt24D take their power from the laptop over firewire. Firewire doesn't allow hot plugging, but you often do get better streaming (i haven't tried any USB3 device). And the sound quality of these devices is up there with Apogee, RME, ... you cannot get any better for the price. In my opinion these are very professional recording tools.
One thing with these TC audio interfaces that is very annoying, is that the pots just die after a while, so numerous people had to have them replaced, including me. Maybe TC have since solved the problem, but in any case that is something that shouldn't happen.

That said, i like the sound quality of the Zoom H2 and H4 a lot. The depth created by their stereo mic setup to me really sounds like how humans hear. And these little recorders are so light to carry.

 

[DrDave]

There's a lot of real competition. SD Preamps are not my absolute favorite, they are very good, but not very great. So basically you are getting a very good, very reliable preamp for a reasonable, but not cheap price. For about the same, you can get the RME Babyface with two great preamps and a 22 channel mixer. Or you can get a Mackie Blackbird 12x12 with EIGHT Onyx pres for under $500. I slightly, very slightly prefer the Onyx pres to the SD, and I am no big Mackie big fan. The Mackie has TC, as well. And so on. Personally, for video work I wouldn't get anything without a flash recorder built in, and the new Tascam DR 680 looks like a very nice box. The now venerable Fostex FR2LE lacks the digital i/o, but includes a flash recorder and solid phantom power. I expect the pres to have the same or better noise than than the SD, and I prefer the sound signature, plus they can be modded in any direction, soundwise. Runs for many hours on toy car batteries. The difference--if any--in preamp noise is definitely not an issue in any live setting or in 99 percent of studio situations where the ambient sound is way louder. So I think the basic answer is, it is a nice option, but for the money I think there are better choices. If you like the SD sound, and you don't want a built in flash recorder, and you aren't concerned about P48 issues--which may very well be fine, but put a voltmeter on it--you get the rock solid build of the SD. Interesting to see what else will turn up at AES.
My Holiday buy list includes the Mackie Blackbird and the Tascam 680, and I don't really need them. I like the idea of just bringing the 680 to a gig with a four or six channel snake, no laptop, no preamps, no interface. I can just use the Mackie for when I run more than 24 channels as it is less than half the price of an Octamic. Or just bring it with a Dell X1 (with an SSD) for portable 8 track solution with fully featured mixer and DAW.

 

[johnnym]

Some great mics you have there, mate.

I think Mackie is very respectable. Their Onyx preamps are considered among the best value for money and should sound really great. RME have a good name, too, but i think they're a bit expensive, compared to their immediate competition. Same for Apogee, who used to be the only name once when sound quality was a concern, but since have received stiff competition.

Fact is, you can get multiple preamps and sharp quality for under 500$, under 300$ if you only need two preamps.