Batutta
Major Contributor
True that it's intuitive value is only good for novice editors, however, Final Cut is a far deeper and more complex program than Iphoto or Picassa. That's not a fair analogy. It can do just about anything Avid can do.
Why is Avid so difficult compared to FCP
- Thread starter life4eva
- Start date
True that it's intuitive value is only good for novice editors, however, Final Cut is a far deeper and more complex program than Iphoto or Picassa. That's not a fair analogy. It can do just about anything Avid can do.
Shane Ross
Veteran
Yeah, Automatic Duck goes both ways...FCP to Avid and Avid to FCP.
Avid always has and always will split audio files. Part of the WORLD CLASS media management. Avid is able to consolidate audio or video ONLY. FCP can't, unless you capture audio and video separately.
They are different beasts...they handle media VERY differently.
Avid always has and always will split audio files. Part of the WORLD CLASS media management. Avid is able to consolidate audio or video ONLY. FCP can't, unless you capture audio and video separately.
They are different beasts...they handle media VERY differently.
mmka1985
Well-known member
At the end of the day, all NLEs perform all the same functions whether it be cutting or trimming or what have you. The guy who started this debate clearly doesn't understand that your editing platform is a tool for your creativity. I agree that you should know all the major programs out there if you want to survive in this industry but complaining about doing certain functions in one NLE to another doesn't sound like a valid argument but it sounds like laziness and unwillingness to be patient. Sorry for the long rant but hearing a college student complain about two industry leading softwares that ppl have debated over for a decade and then have professionals tell you to suck it and learn seems like a waste of time in my opinion. Not a waste that the professionals gave great advice but a waste that the person who started this thread needs to quite moaning and groaning.
Answers and questions
Answers and questions
College is a time for filling your mind with challenging new ideas and experimenting
with them. Are you a leader or a follower? As a student you should do what your teacher suggests. They are paid to impart wisdom and they should have your best interests in mind. Do your chores. Respect your elders... unless they're dating your classmates. You clearly love Final Cut Pro, but maybe too much. Are you going to marry your Final Cut and live happily ever after? What do they edit with in China? You say Final Cut is faster. Maybe your teacher wants you to slow down so that, among other things, you can learn how to speed up, so that you can teach yourself anything when you are out in the world by yourself. Good luck, and enjoy your video!
Answers and questions
College is a time for filling your mind with challenging new ideas and experimenting
with them. Are you a leader or a follower? As a student you should do what your teacher suggests. They are paid to impart wisdom and they should have your best interests in mind. Do your chores. Respect your elders... unless they're dating your classmates. You clearly love Final Cut Pro, but maybe too much. Are you going to marry your Final Cut and live happily ever after? What do they edit with in China? You say Final Cut is faster. Maybe your teacher wants you to slow down so that, among other things, you can learn how to speed up, so that you can teach yourself anything when you are out in the world by yourself. Good luck, and enjoy your video!
IMO- trimming is MUCH better in Avid.
Recently had an onsite freelance gig with FCP.
It was a multi-cam project that also required a ton of B-roll coverage.
I found myself lost with the roll tool- do not know why, but I couldn't get comfortable with it.
I was wishing I was on an Avid.
Recently had an onsite freelance gig with FCP.
It was a multi-cam project that also required a ton of B-roll coverage.
I found myself lost with the roll tool- do not know why, but I couldn't get comfortable with it.
I was wishing I was on an Avid.
J.R. Hudson
Spirit Animal
I thought I had it bad using cement and a splicer in 9th Grade.
bryantbennett
New member
The other side of the coin
The other side of the coin
It was really fun reading this thread because I am exactly the opposite of you. I have been editing on Avid since 1990 and have recently taken a job where all the work is done on final cut. Daily I get frustrated and think to myself, "why does final cut make it so hard?"
I go to make a title and I can't see what it is I'm typing on. I can't align, distribute, and resize more than one peice of text at a time.
I can barley see the key frames and then once they are set I can't cut and paste them or move them around. The spline control is almost impossible to see.
We work with P2 and file based media cannot be consolidated and does not show duplicate frames. On that note. I can't find anything really resembling consolidate or decompose. I guess media manager is similar, but it doesn't seem to work the way I think it should. Especially with P2.
I can't flip the monitors and change the size of the waveform to make audio editing easier. I can't turn off a track in my source.
I can't find a timeline in a bin with a button. Maybe there is a button but I can't find it.
And, one of the weirdest things of all. I can't find a creation time for sequences. If someone knows where that field is, I would love to know. I used to sort my bin that way in Avid and found it a quick way of saving versions in case the client wanted to go back to an earlier one.
Why can't I turn off the top layer. Sometimes a lot of layers can get confusing and turning off a layer without destruction would sure be nice.
The list goes on and on of things that I found so easy in avid but I find difficult in FCP. And now with AMA and track based audio effects, I am really missing my media composer.
I'm just like you. Trying to make it something that it is not. Good luck with your class and try to like Avid. It really is a wonderful tool. And like others have said, you have to know both.
I'll try to learn to like FCP.
The other side of the coin
It was really fun reading this thread because I am exactly the opposite of you. I have been editing on Avid since 1990 and have recently taken a job where all the work is done on final cut. Daily I get frustrated and think to myself, "why does final cut make it so hard?"
I go to make a title and I can't see what it is I'm typing on. I can't align, distribute, and resize more than one peice of text at a time.
I can barley see the key frames and then once they are set I can't cut and paste them or move them around. The spline control is almost impossible to see.
We work with P2 and file based media cannot be consolidated and does not show duplicate frames. On that note. I can't find anything really resembling consolidate or decompose. I guess media manager is similar, but it doesn't seem to work the way I think it should. Especially with P2.
I can't flip the monitors and change the size of the waveform to make audio editing easier. I can't turn off a track in my source.
I can't find a timeline in a bin with a button. Maybe there is a button but I can't find it.
And, one of the weirdest things of all. I can't find a creation time for sequences. If someone knows where that field is, I would love to know. I used to sort my bin that way in Avid and found it a quick way of saving versions in case the client wanted to go back to an earlier one.
Why can't I turn off the top layer. Sometimes a lot of layers can get confusing and turning off a layer without destruction would sure be nice.
The list goes on and on of things that I found so easy in avid but I find difficult in FCP. And now with AMA and track based audio effects, I am really missing my media composer.
I'm just like you. Trying to make it something that it is not. Good luck with your class and try to like Avid. It really is a wonderful tool. And like others have said, you have to know both.
I'll try to learn to like FCP.
Shane Ross
Veteran
"We work with P2 and file based media cannot be consolidated and does not show duplicate frames."
Bullpucky. I work with P2 all the time and OF COURSE you can do this. To view DUPLICATE FRAMES, all you need to do is ensure that you have REEL NAMES. And FCP automatically assigns those when you Log and Transfer the footage. Something AVID doesn't do. That's what annoys be about Avid, I can't track what original source folder the P2 came from. What if I need to reimport? How do I know what folder to get it from, what backup drive?
And what do you need to CONSOLIDATE? You use Log and Transfer to wrap to QT and bring it in. Why do you need to CONSOLIDATE after that? if you do...then either manually drag the footage on the finder level to where you want it to go, or use the COPY function in the Media Manager. You have to get OUT of your Avid head...because in Avid you can really only deal with the footage inside the project files. With FCP, you can organize the footage on the finder level, drag, drop, copy...all that. You just need to know what to do. Stop trying to apply Avid workflows to FCP...that's step 1.
"I can't find anything really resembling consolidate or decompose. I guess media manager is similar, but it doesn't seem to work the way I think it should. Especially with P2."
The Media manager has COPY and MAKE OFFLINE. COPY is CONSOLIDATE, and MAKE OFFLINE is DECOMPOSE. It doesn't work the way you think it should because you are approaching this with an Avid mindset. Again, bad idea. What are you trying to accomplish? Tell me exactly what you want to do and I can tell you how to do it.
But most of your other points are valid. There are things that Avid does better. And I miss that stuff. But you need to learn how FCP does things. Turn off a layer? You can, but as you note, renders go away. So instead, highlight the clips you want to see under, and press CONTROL-B. This will deactivate them...make them see through. Yes, when you press CNTRL-B again you will have to render...or you can press UNDO...but you will only have to render that small section, not EVERYTHING from that layer.
You are still learning FCP. You need someone to show you all the tricks. just like most FCP people going to Avid need someone to show them all the Avid tricks. Like putting filters on whole tracks.
Bullpucky. I work with P2 all the time and OF COURSE you can do this. To view DUPLICATE FRAMES, all you need to do is ensure that you have REEL NAMES. And FCP automatically assigns those when you Log and Transfer the footage. Something AVID doesn't do. That's what annoys be about Avid, I can't track what original source folder the P2 came from. What if I need to reimport? How do I know what folder to get it from, what backup drive?
And what do you need to CONSOLIDATE? You use Log and Transfer to wrap to QT and bring it in. Why do you need to CONSOLIDATE after that? if you do...then either manually drag the footage on the finder level to where you want it to go, or use the COPY function in the Media Manager. You have to get OUT of your Avid head...because in Avid you can really only deal with the footage inside the project files. With FCP, you can organize the footage on the finder level, drag, drop, copy...all that. You just need to know what to do. Stop trying to apply Avid workflows to FCP...that's step 1.
"I can't find anything really resembling consolidate or decompose. I guess media manager is similar, but it doesn't seem to work the way I think it should. Especially with P2."
The Media manager has COPY and MAKE OFFLINE. COPY is CONSOLIDATE, and MAKE OFFLINE is DECOMPOSE. It doesn't work the way you think it should because you are approaching this with an Avid mindset. Again, bad idea. What are you trying to accomplish? Tell me exactly what you want to do and I can tell you how to do it.
But most of your other points are valid. There are things that Avid does better. And I miss that stuff. But you need to learn how FCP does things. Turn off a layer? You can, but as you note, renders go away. So instead, highlight the clips you want to see under, and press CONTROL-B. This will deactivate them...make them see through. Yes, when you press CNTRL-B again you will have to render...or you can press UNDO...but you will only have to render that small section, not EVERYTHING from that layer.
You are still learning FCP. You need someone to show you all the tricks. just like most FCP people going to Avid need someone to show them all the Avid tricks. Like putting filters on whole tracks.
Postmaster
Dark Side of the Camera
LOL!
I find this "I can´t do that in FCP" - "I can´t do this in AVID" amusing.
You can do all that and more in Premiere, but you can´t switch, because it´s not an "industry standard".
Frank
I find this "I can´t do that in FCP" - "I can´t do this in AVID" amusing.
You can do all that and more in Premiere, but you can´t switch, because it´s not an "industry standard".
Frank
bryantbennett
New member
I should have been more clear. We don't use log and transfer because of the extra time needed to transcode all the footage to prores. We use the calibrated Q plugin, which is awesome for instant access to P2 but we sacrifice the reel names. Maybe there is something we can do on that end that would get up back that functionality. I would sure like to be able to see duplicate frames. I need to learn more that is for sure. That's kind of what I was trying to say, that we get used to what we learn on and everything else seems hard from our already taught, ridgid perspective.
Scott F
Pug Life
@ the OP: Learn your keyboard shortcuts. It will make you a faster and more proficient editor.
DC
Cinematographiliac
@life4eva Besides what these guys have already recommended, you might also be doing yourself a favor by viewing this:
Class on Demand: Avid Media Composer® for Final Cut Pro Users (DVD)
http://shop.avid.com/store/product.do?product=306942336367888
Learn the essentials of Media Composer 5 with Class on Demand expert, Steve Hullfish. This series of lessons, designed for Final Cut Pro users, will guide you through the features and workflows needed to complete projects in Media Composer, and quickly get you comfortable with its powerful interface, using your knowledge of Final Cut Pro.
About the Author
The latest Avid Training from Multi-Award winning Producer Class on Demand! Steve Hullfish was named an Avid Master Editor in 1996. Since then, he has written or co-written four books on editing and color correction, including The Art and Technique of Color Correction and Avid Xpress Pro Editing Workshop. His editing credits span more than 20 years, including editing the Oprah Winfrey Show for which he won a Daytime Emmy. Other broadcast credits include Emmy nominations for Investigative Reports and Cold Cases with Bill Kurtis on A&E. He runs his own production company - Verascope Pictures - and his clients include Universal Studios, NBC Television, Turner Broadcasting, HIT Entertainment, Jim Henson Entertainment and VeggieTales.
Target Audience:
Students exposed to or familiar with Final Cut Pro.
Pre-requisites:
Familiarity with basic editing skills using Final Cut Pro.
Approx. Run Time: 4 hours
Available in English only
Class on Demand: Avid Media Composer® for Final Cut Pro Users (DVD)
http://shop.avid.com/store/product.do?product=306942336367888
Learn the essentials of Media Composer 5 with Class on Demand expert, Steve Hullfish. This series of lessons, designed for Final Cut Pro users, will guide you through the features and workflows needed to complete projects in Media Composer, and quickly get you comfortable with its powerful interface, using your knowledge of Final Cut Pro.
About the Author
The latest Avid Training from Multi-Award winning Producer Class on Demand! Steve Hullfish was named an Avid Master Editor in 1996. Since then, he has written or co-written four books on editing and color correction, including The Art and Technique of Color Correction and Avid Xpress Pro Editing Workshop. His editing credits span more than 20 years, including editing the Oprah Winfrey Show for which he won a Daytime Emmy. Other broadcast credits include Emmy nominations for Investigative Reports and Cold Cases with Bill Kurtis on A&E. He runs his own production company - Verascope Pictures - and his clients include Universal Studios, NBC Television, Turner Broadcasting, HIT Entertainment, Jim Henson Entertainment and VeggieTales.
Target Audience:
Students exposed to or familiar with Final Cut Pro.
Pre-requisites:
Familiarity with basic editing skills using Final Cut Pro.
Approx. Run Time: 4 hours
Available in English only
OP -
I can understand where you're coming from. I'm a TV editor who (gasp) has never had to learn AVID for a job. Here in Toronto there is such an abundant FCP culture that I've survived nearly a decade resting on my FCP knowledge. However, for my own knowledge-sake I've embarked on learning AVID MC5 in the last month. We're not talking casually "I opened it and tried it out" kind of learning: I've been spending serious personal time on tutorials, memorizing all the shortcuts, training with other editors I've worked with, etc. I'm definitely far from becoming expert-level at AVID, but I'd say I've hit a comfortable middle-range so far. I think I can give you some insights, as your experiences mesh with mine (warning: biassed, personal experiences about to be shared that do not necessarily reflect the critical mass of television editors):
- Media management in AVID is good but way, way overrated. A good FCP editor knows his workflow, file and folder structure. Each editor can do it differently and this won't usually affect the edit. It's nice. If you know your tech-stuff, FCP is never going to give you media-mangement or workflow issues. If you're a seasoned FCP editor or even assistant editor the "AVID way" will drive you nuts. Dumping everything into the MXF/1/ folder, regardless of which project, is going to give you a mild O.C.D. attack, as well as the fact that everything needs to be MXF (meaning you can't preview anything in the finder anymore, among other things). Don't fall for their "AMA" feature marketing. It's a glorified "log and transfer" accessory that will fool you into editing with real quicktime files until you realize "oh s**t, I can't output an OMF or even a quicktime reference!". I seriously spent 20 minutes going "really..? No.. I mean… every editor can output a quicktime reference file… how the… I don't even..?" Anyways -- the point is you still gotta do it "the AVID way"™ and convert your stuff to MXF. You'll get used to it. While grudging admitting that it's a good fail-safe way of working, you'll never really accept this as being all that much superior to a well-rounded workflow in FCP. The point is that the FCP method leaves room for more error if you don't know what you're doing.
- Let's forget about ingesting, media managing, and outputing for a second. Let's talk purely about editing. Once you learn "the AVID way"™ of editing you'll realize it has some awesome advantages. Any editing program is great at simply laying down footage, but the guys who made AVID realized that the true power of editing is controlling every aspect of the CUTS. I won't go into huge detail here because you just have to see it for yourself, but AVID has better tools for refining where your cuts occur on both A and B side of an edit. It feels more creative and intuitive. This is my favorite part about AVID. It makes editing in AVID more enjoyable than FCP.
- Here's a few other bonuses to using AVID: Say you're working in a 23.98fps timeline and you know that your project is going to end up on 29.97 drop-frame tape (aka any tape being sent to a broadcaster): AVID allows you display the eventual 29.97DF timecode, even if you're working some other editing base TC. On that same note: my studio often wants filenames to be displayed on-screen during rough cuts - and AVID does this with a click of a button. FCP doesn't have a feature to display filenames on our shots without annoying workarounds.
- You know what the most annoying part of all is? Premiere CS5 blows the doors off both FCP and AVID in pure speed. I still prefer AVID for the actual editing but every time I put my files into the Adobe Media Encoder or Premiere CS5 I yell a big "GOD DAMNIT!" because of how fast it goes. It annoys me that I can't "just pick 1" of these video editing companies and assume they are the best
the tribe mentality in all of us makes it hard to agree on "just 1" 
I can understand where you're coming from. I'm a TV editor who (gasp) has never had to learn AVID for a job. Here in Toronto there is such an abundant FCP culture that I've survived nearly a decade resting on my FCP knowledge. However, for my own knowledge-sake I've embarked on learning AVID MC5 in the last month. We're not talking casually "I opened it and tried it out" kind of learning: I've been spending serious personal time on tutorials, memorizing all the shortcuts, training with other editors I've worked with, etc. I'm definitely far from becoming expert-level at AVID, but I'd say I've hit a comfortable middle-range so far. I think I can give you some insights, as your experiences mesh with mine (warning: biassed, personal experiences about to be shared that do not necessarily reflect the critical mass of television editors):
- Media management in AVID is good but way, way overrated. A good FCP editor knows his workflow, file and folder structure. Each editor can do it differently and this won't usually affect the edit. It's nice. If you know your tech-stuff, FCP is never going to give you media-mangement or workflow issues. If you're a seasoned FCP editor or even assistant editor the "AVID way" will drive you nuts. Dumping everything into the MXF/1/ folder, regardless of which project, is going to give you a mild O.C.D. attack, as well as the fact that everything needs to be MXF (meaning you can't preview anything in the finder anymore, among other things). Don't fall for their "AMA" feature marketing. It's a glorified "log and transfer" accessory that will fool you into editing with real quicktime files until you realize "oh s**t, I can't output an OMF or even a quicktime reference!". I seriously spent 20 minutes going "really..? No.. I mean… every editor can output a quicktime reference file… how the… I don't even..?" Anyways -- the point is you still gotta do it "the AVID way"™ and convert your stuff to MXF. You'll get used to it. While grudging admitting that it's a good fail-safe way of working, you'll never really accept this as being all that much superior to a well-rounded workflow in FCP. The point is that the FCP method leaves room for more error if you don't know what you're doing.
- Let's forget about ingesting, media managing, and outputing for a second. Let's talk purely about editing. Once you learn "the AVID way"™ of editing you'll realize it has some awesome advantages. Any editing program is great at simply laying down footage, but the guys who made AVID realized that the true power of editing is controlling every aspect of the CUTS. I won't go into huge detail here because you just have to see it for yourself, but AVID has better tools for refining where your cuts occur on both A and B side of an edit. It feels more creative and intuitive. This is my favorite part about AVID. It makes editing in AVID more enjoyable than FCP.
- Here's a few other bonuses to using AVID: Say you're working in a 23.98fps timeline and you know that your project is going to end up on 29.97 drop-frame tape (aka any tape being sent to a broadcaster): AVID allows you display the eventual 29.97DF timecode, even if you're working some other editing base TC. On that same note: my studio often wants filenames to be displayed on-screen during rough cuts - and AVID does this with a click of a button. FCP doesn't have a feature to display filenames on our shots without annoying workarounds.
- You know what the most annoying part of all is? Premiere CS5 blows the doors off both FCP and AVID in pure speed. I still prefer AVID for the actual editing but every time I put my files into the Adobe Media Encoder or Premiere CS5 I yell a big "GOD DAMNIT!" because of how fast it goes. It annoys me that I can't "just pick 1" of these video editing companies and assume they are the best
the tribe mentality in all of us makes it hard to agree on "just 1"
Batutta
Major Contributor
I've posted my thoughts previously, but now I'm back cutting a show on the Avid. It's been about two weeks and I can honestly say I prefer cutting on Final Cut. I seem to be able to do stuff in Final Cut without thinking. I'm just faster on it and I seem to wrestle with the program less. I feel shackled on the Avid. Perhaps that feeling will lessen with time, but I have no compelling reason to stay on the Avid after this show. And Avid isn't new to me. The first five years of my edit career were strictly Avid.
Im hsving trouble with that too : (
Im hsving trouble with that too : (
I am really having trouble with Avid MC 5 too having been using FCP for several years. I am a drag and drop mouse person NOT a keyboard person. Im frustrated beyond belief and feel as if I will never get anything done. I was very comfortable with FCP
:undecided
I havent a choice my Mac is older now and I had to get a new system. I now am trying to start working on a documentary feature and am sooo frustrated.
I am wondering how long it should take to get the thing down enough to get any work domnne I know everyone is different.
Im hsving trouble with that too : (
I am really having trouble with Avid MC 5 too having been using FCP for several years. I am a drag and drop mouse person NOT a keyboard person. Im frustrated beyond belief and feel as if I will never get anything done. I was very comfortable with FCP
:undecided
I havent a choice my Mac is older now and I had to get a new system. I now am trying to start working on a documentary feature and am sooo frustrated.
I am wondering how long it should take to get the thing down enough to get any work domnne I know everyone is different.