Why is Avid so difficult compared to FCP

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life4eva

Carbonite Member
I am a current student in college that no my way with FCP very well. I have an editing class now though and the professor only wants us to use Avid.

Now excuse me if I'm wrong, but SIMPLE steps that are done in FCP are a chore in Avid. Like me having to click an arrow button then click a clip to move it.

In FCP you just grab anything you want. Second thing today I hat to create text in Avid and I can't believe how much of a Pain in the A** it is to do something so simple like this in FCP.


So please tell me why in the world should I learn Avid if FCP does everything it does plus faster?
 
Learn Avid. Learn FCP. Then compare the two. Also, what version of Avid is your school running? Media Composer 5 added more "FCP-like" functionality with their Smart Tools.

What, specifically, are you having issues with in Avid, besides moving a clip in the timeline (map the arrow to your keyboard - it will make it a lot faster to move things around)?

EDIT: Title tool - map it to your keyboard. I have mine on F7. I hit F7, type my text, close the title tool and name the title, then cut it into my sequence. It needs major improvements, but at least it's a WYSWYG text editor. Take about 5 seconds to make a simple title.

Learn the tools, understand the theory of why the tool works why it does, then exploit it. Don't try to make Avid run like FCP, and don't try to make FCP run like Avid.
 
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Im not trying to make anything run like anything. I never used FCP before and I never used Avid before. FCP works a lot faster and is just more fluent. It's not about Avid vs FCP, it's just that I see no reason at all to learn Avid which makes things more difficult.


As an editor I don't need to fight with my tools, that slows down my creative process. There is no way anyone in the world can say that Avid is more fluid than FCP. Things that takes two steps in AVid can be done in one.


Also certain files have to be in folders, have certain names, file extensions, etc. I've been working on Avid for a couple of months and it just makes no sense to me while simple things that I do in FCP are a chore in Avid?
 
life4eva said:
As an editor I don't need to fight with my tools, that slows down my creative process. There is no way anyone in the world can say that Avid is more fluid than FCP. Things that takes two steps in AVid can be done in one.
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Well as someone who started on Avid in 93, you have to understand that it was made to mimic the look and feel of true film editing with bins, and the way the timeline reacts is very much like days of the steenbeck.

Avid works the way it does because it also has a history and reputation, that still stands by the way, of having the best media management of any NLE out there.

All, the same. the new MC 5.0 has a feature to enable click and drag and drag and drop editing ala FCPro.

But to say that just because you started learning it that "here is no way anyone in the world can say that Avid is more fluid than FCP." is myopic, and without merit.

I have been editing on FCPro now for over 6 years and every time I go back to Avid I find I am STILL faster on it than FCPro.
 
You said you never used FCP, but it runs more fluid than Avid? That doesn't make sense.

You have to learn the Avid way of doing things, and why Avid does them. Does your professor explain why you cut a certain way in Avid versus other NLE's like FCP or Premiere? Do you have your keyboard mapped in Avid and have you memorized it? Do you use it for the majority of your edits? If you haven't, you aren't using Avid like it was designed to be used. It's not a mouse based editor, and if you try to drive it like one (that is, click and drag all your clips, etc...) you'll be frustrated.

I can edit faster in Avid than in any other editor I've used (Media100, FCP, Premiere, Edius), but I'm a keyboard freak. I love it, I hate the mouse, I don't touch it unless I have to. With Avid, I barely have to, so I'm fast. It's matter of using the tool as it's designed to be used.

Regarding the file structure - that's what makes Avid so solid in media management. If you move a file outside the prescribed Avid structure, it's offline. So don't move it and you will never (or almost never) lose a file. Learn why and how Avid stores its media and I think you'll appreciate it more. I can backup an Avid project in minutes, stick it on a shelf, and years later have it back online in minutes, if not less. I've never had that success with any other editor that allowed you to put your media anywhere you wanted. You're locked into Avid's rules, but if you follow those rules you'll enjoy a very stable, rock solid editor.

You need to learn Avid. You need to learn FCP. You will probably need to learn Premiere. If you learn how to operate them all properly, they won't get in the way of your creativity. When I use Avid, my hands operate on muscle memory and I don't think about cutting - I think about telling a story/creating a commercial. You'll get there. Just don't fight it.
 
Plus, if you ever expect to be freelance editor, unless you learn BOTH, you will be greatly reducing the amount of work you will be able to accept.
 
Ok please let me explain. I personally find FCP to be more easier to use than Avid. Things that I like doing in FCP takes two steps to do in Avid. That is what frustrated me, I guess because I learned how to use FCP like a mouse program.

I was creating some titles today in Avid and I couldn't believe how difficult it was compared to FCP which is very easy. Trying to create a simple drop shadow in Avid took over an hour, as it just did not work when clocking the little tool.

There's a lot of little things that I personally do not like about the program. I came to this forum because I just don't understand how anyone can like this system for editing?

I think FCP as of right now is a better editing system, it is fast and allows me to do everything I want. When working with audio files as well in Avid in the bin window you see nothing, a blank screen = WTF?

Not like FCP where you see the audio wave form... I'm so frustrated, maybe I just have a bad professor or maybe I'm jut not trying hard enough but as of right now I really would like to learn Avid but I am no where close skill wise in avid as I am in Fcp.


Mad right now!!
 
Ok, audio in the source side monitor - at the bottom of your timeline you'll see what looks like a Source/Record monitor (not in front of an Avid right now or I'd post pictures). Click it and your timeline now shows the source side. Turn on waveforms and there's your audio. I prefer this to FCP because I can load a sequence into my source monitor, see all the tracks and audio, turn on waveforms, zoom directly to specific parts in more or less detail in the timeline, then switch the timeline view back to the record monitor and cut it in. If you have a mouse with more than a Right and Left button, you can map this to your mouse - I click my mouse and the timeline flips to show the source side, then I click it again and it flips back to the record side.

Drop shadows in the title tool - Type your text. Make sure it's selected, then go to the lower right hand corner of your title tool and you'll see a rectangle with a box below it. Type a number in that box, or grab the rectangle and drag it in the direction you want the drop shadow to go. Ctrl+Alt+G will open the "Soften Drop Shadow" box to soften it. You can even make the drop shadow connected to your text, rather than floating, by clicking the 3D looking rectangle under the drop shadow box (again - can't post pics 'cause I'm not in front of a system).

If you learned FCP first, learning Avid will be frustrating. If you learned Avid first, FCP is frustrating. It just takes time in front of the system and someone to explain how to do things, and why they're done that way, to get comfortable with it. Does your professor not answer these questions, or show you how to do these things?

If you have further questions, ask away. There's a list of about 150 tutorials on the Avid forums - I'll try to find them tomorrow and post them. Keep working at it - Avid has a steep learning curve, but when it suddenly clicks you'll be flying!
 
Butcher said:
If you learned FCP first, learning Avid will be frustrating. If you learned Avid first, FCP is frustrating.
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You know, I can only speak from my personal experience, but I learned on FCP first. Then moved to Avid and after cutting everyday for a month on that platform and embracing the reliance on key commands, it made me a much, much faster and more efficient editor on FCP. That was well over 6 years ago and now I'm platform agnostic.

But you want to talk frustration? Frustration is watching a mouse-heavy editor dragging and dropping and clicking on-screen buttons to do what a few keystrokes could do in microseconds. Maybe they call it "dragging" for a reason. :)
 
People who started on Avid really struggle and find that FCP isn't as fluid to work with as Avid. I have seen Avid editors really struggle with FCP.

It all depends on what you start with. You are very used to the way that FCP works, the way that you can grab and move clips on the timeline. Avid MC5 has made that easier, but what is the true strength of Avid is trim mode.

And grabbing clips, well, drag a box around them, starting on the upper left dragging down. You just don't know all the tricks yet. I use both, and I can say that they are both VERY fluid, in their own way. It takes me a while to shift gears, but i get into the flow of both.

Why is Avid better than FCP?

- Far superior media management.
- Far better shared project workflow (can't share projects in FCP) for multiple editors to work with the same footage in the same project. And a lot of places have multiple editor work stations.
- Better capture interface...you can see the timecode as you capture, you can eject a tape, you can type in clip names AS it captures.
- more stable output to tape. I have to do a few tricks to get FCP to do things right, things that Avid does right away.
- Ability to have LARGE projects. Due to media management, each bin is a different folder, the main Avid Project has many many subfolders. SO large projects are manageable. FCP has ONE project file...and if it gets big, then it can be unmanageable. And if you break the project up into mutliple, and move clips across projects, you can't match back to the bins where they come from.

But then FCP has a leg up in other areas. But Avid is a strong industry leader for a reason. It might take a while to get used to, but when you do...it's amazing.
 
This seems more like a old school / new school thing.
Everything is moving and changing on the video and film industry these days, cameras are getting cheaper, quality is getting higher and sizes are getting smaller. From my point of view is important to have the knoledge and take advantage of every piece of software and equipment out there, call it avid, the mother of all pro editing programs or FCP, the rebel son who just managed to do the things on its own way and today has a new generation of friends.
 
Editors edit. Telling stories is their gift. They understand that the NLE is simply a tool to tell the story. Editing tools come and go (CMX, VideoCube, *edit), but the craft of story telling is unchanged. Experienced editors know better than to hang their hat on a single tool. It's a losing proposition. Nobody knows if FCP or Media Composer will still be around five years from now. Working editors don't really care one way or the other. They will adapt and put in the hard work necessary to learn next NLE. Learning new tools and techniques is a big part of being a successful editor.


CMX - the last of the linear editing tools, an industry standard for decades. Editors that hung onto CMX with a death grip and refused to learn non-linear editing either retired or changed careers.

VideoCube - the first NLE I ever used. It was super easy to learn, I was cutting after less than 15 minutes of instruction. However after using it for a few months I realized it wasn't as powerful as I wanted it to be. So I learned how to cut on Avid MC and few years later FCP.

*edit - This NLE had a insanely loyal user base that felt strongly that no other NLE on the market had the speed & power of *edit. Autodesk eventually killed off *edit to focus on their high finishing solutions (Smoke, Flame, Inferno). The former *edit users adapted and moved on to FCP, MC or Premiere.
 
I haven't ever formally learned either software, but I've been cutting on Avid for about 7 years. I think once learned, one can edit faster on an Avid, but I think both software has their merits. I have only a few times jumped onto an FCP machine, but got the hang of it fairly quickly. I think the things that are the most difficult to figure out isn't so much the actual editing, but some of the media management and settings functions.
 
The adage is you like the system you learned on best. I have interns who've left and gone to FCP facilities and hated it. Conversly, I've also had freelancers ***** that you should be able to "right click" on a clip to do an effect like in FCP.

Personally, I have 2 Avids and Premiere on my laptop. The 2 Avids are for business, Premiere for my family videos I do at night. I can not imagine trying to do a pro project on Premiere, but people do- to each his own.

A friend of mine has 2 Avid's and an FCP system. He cuts everything on Avid's, uses FCP as a last resort. Both systems will do a fine job, if you have the ability. FCP had the advantage of coming out years later, learning and improving on Avid's architecture.

As stated many times above, learn both...it will suit you well.
 
I started on Avid, worked about 5 years straight on it, became super proficient. Started working on FCP as soon as it came out and can work both programs with ease. Neither is faster for me, really. FCP is definitely more intuitive. You could pick it up without looking at a manual and just figure things out. Avid is sturdier and more foolproof because it's a bit more limited in certain ways. There's 5 ways you can do something in FCP versus just one in Avid. But it's a lot easier to screw things up badly in Final Cut. They still haven't got the media management tools to where Avid was 10 years ago. If I had to choose I'd pick Final Cut to work on alone just because it's a bit more flexible, but if I was running a show with multiple editors I'd definitely go with Avid.
 
Batutta said:
FCP is definitely more intuitive.
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I hear this all the time. I don't disagree that FCP is more intuitive, however I think the value of it's intuitive nature is overrated for experienced editors. Autodesk's Smoke is one of the most powerful editors on the market. You would be hard pressed to find anyone willing to say that Smoke is intuitive, it has a very steep learning curve.

You wouldn't describe Photoshop as intuitive especially compared to iPhoto, Picassa or any of the other simple apps used for Photo editing. You also wouldn't try to do anything remotely complex on any of these simple programs.

When doing heavy lifting the need for intuitive behavior is secondary to having the power to execute the task.
 
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