Why dont they FLIP???

Dennis Wood said:
The Cinevate flip module's light loss is about 0.2 stops....so almost a non-issue. Because it is modular, users who later purchase a camera with onboard image correction, will be able to use the adapter without the optical flip :-) The JVC adpater is great, however it gives up a great deal of FOV on 35mm cine lenses due to it's inability to adjust for formats.
Click to expand...


.2 stops of light = ?? precentage??
 
In the optics world, .2 f stops, or on a scope, about 4 IRE are more relevant than a percentage to most shooters. The light loss is not just dependent on reflective losses, but also is a factor of length of the optical path. The testing numbers are based on an XH-A1, but a little HV20 would be a bit more efficient.
 
Dennis Wood said:
In the optics world, .2 f stops, or on a scope, about 4 IRE are more relevant than a percentage to most shooters. The light loss is not just dependent on reflective losses, but also is a factor of length of the optical path. The testing numbers are based on an XH-A1, but a little HV20 would be a bit more efficient.
Click to expand...


I totaly understand that. But would you not agree, the best solution is for the camera to do the flip. Thus no light loss.
 
Okay, first things first -- the camera isn't doing any flipping already, contrary to many people's assertions. The CCDs are mounted upside down. That's the way film and video have been done from the beginning.

Second -- yes the LCD has the capability to flip, but that's just the LCD. And Panasonic has implemented the capability to trigger that on the HPX500 and the P2 Gear. Steps in the right direction.

Third -- Jan's said that the factory's told her it cannot be done in firmware. Therefore, it cannot be done in firmware. Could it be done on a new camera? Yes, obviously it could -- I believe JVC's HD200/HD250 actually do have a hardware flip function. So it's possible, but nobody else has done it, and with the proliferation of flip modules and the entire Letus line being upright already, the days of having to deal with the flip are drawing to a close anyway.

Would it be ideal if the camera would do it itself? Sure, anything that can be done pre-compression (especially a nondestructive operation like an h/v mirror) would be best implemented at the camera level. Short of that, an optical solution is probably best.

Send your petitions, send your claims, demand it from all the manufacturers. But don't be surprised if we don't get it. In the meantime, I'd suggest that anyone who is bothered by the upside-downness to just get a Letus or get the flip module for the Brevis and get back to work instead of beating your head against a wall...
 
Barry_Green said:
Okay, first things first -- the camera isn't doing any flipping already, contrary to many people's assertions. The CCDs are mounted upside down. That's the way film and video have been done from the beginning.

Second -- yes the LCD has the capability to flip, but that's just the LCD. And Panasonic has implemented the capability to trigger that on the HPX500 and the P2 Gear. Steps in the right direction.

Third -- Jan's said that the factory's told her it cannot be done in firmware. Therefore, it cannot be done in firmware. Could it be done on a new camera? Yes, obviously it could -- I believe JVC's HD200/HD250 actually do have a hardware flip function. So it's possible, but nobody else has done it, and with the proliferation of flip modules and the entire Letus line being upright already, the days of having to deal with the flip are drawing to a close anyway.

Would it be ideal if the camera would do it itself? Sure, anything that can be done pre-compression (especially a nondestructive operation like an h/v mirror) would be best implemented at the camera level. Short of that, an optical solution is probably best.

Send your petitions, send your claims, demand it from all the manufacturers. But don't be surprised if we don't get it. In the meantime, I'd suggest that anyone who is bothered by the upside-downness to just get a Letus or get the flip module for the Brevis and get back to work instead of beating your head against a wall...
Click to expand...


Jan said it can't be done in firmware? on which cameras? All of them or just the Panasonic HVX?

How can that be possible?

The only way that I can think of that that would be the case would be if the chips are non-programmable and literally hardwired (etched).

Interesting...
 
Or... we could just buy flip modules... lost less than a quarter stop of light... and work on hacking other thing... like the MAN.
 
It's a good thing we have the option to do firmware upgrades on the HVX.....it has been so useful!!!!!!.....(sarcasm).... :evil:
 
Barry_Green said:
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showpost.php?p=1108101&postcount=24
Click to expand...


"The Factory" said it just isn't possible as a firmware upgrade.


Is she talking about the HVX or all Panasonic cameras? (Maybe there is a design flaw with Panasonic Cameras?)

She is only quoted as saying that "the factory" says "this is not possible as a firmware upgrade".

She doesn't say if it is a hardware limitation, software design limitation, or just too costly for Panasonic.


I wonder if Canon and Sony are bound by the same limitations?


Saying to just dismiss it and not keep expressing our interest as a market seems silly.

If we as consumers didn't demand better and better we would still be using film for silent hand cranked movies.


But, what do I know!?!?!
 
Barry,

On the DVX it has the mirror function. Does it just mirror the LCD and record normal, or does it record the mirror image?? I played with the function but never recorded so I dont know......
 
ESTEBEVERDE said:
Is she talking about the HVX or all Panasonic cameras?
Click to expand...
HVX, obviously.

Saying to just dismiss it and not keep expressing our interest as a market seems silly.
Click to expand...
Saying it's not going to happen, when it's not going to happen, is certainly not silly. The factory says they can't add this via firmware, so continuing to ask them to add it via firmware is, indeed, silly.

Continuing to express our interest isn't silly -- just channel it towards where it can do some good. Demand the flip be incorporated in new products, for example.
 
Shane Jackson said:
On the DVX it has the mirror function. Does it just mirror the LCD and record normal, or does it record the mirror image?? I played with the function but never recorded so I dont know......
Click to expand...
The DVX has a left/right mirror function which comes into play when you have the LCD turned around so it's pointing in the same direction as the lens. And it affects only the LCD, all recording is done normally.

The HPX500 has an upside-down rotation function on its LCD that is user-settable. Doesn't affect the recording, only the LCD.
 
That is not what I am talking about Barry. In the menu it has a function to mirror the image (has nothing to do with if the LCD is facing the lens or battery). It mirrors the image on the LCD while it is facing the battery, however I do not know if it records this way or not. I sold my DVX or I would check it my self.....
 
Barry_Green said:
....


Saying it's not going to happen, when it's not going to happen, is certainly not silly. The factory says they can't add this via firmware, so continuing to ask them to add it via firmware is, indeed, silly.

Continuing to express our interest isn't silly -- just channel it towards where it can do some good. Demand the flip be incorporated in new products, for example.
Click to expand...


Agreed.

That's the petitioning I am talking about.

Not necessarily retroactive.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top