Why are we not talking about The Raid: Redemption

One of the true joys inherent in participating at this web site is Jan's presence, and the responsiveness of her and the company to user suggestions through the years.

Kinda of really surprised at Steve's post and its tenor.
 
Holy Cow... Steve R, maybe a little bit of historical perspective is in order. With the DVX 100, Panasonic INVENTED low budget digital cinema! At a time when 24p, and cinema like gamma settings, was only available to folks able to fork over huge wads of cash, they introduced that amazing little camera. I would be willing to bet that, if you could figure out a way to count it, more fictional narrative content has been shot on Panasonic cameras, including the DVX and its successors, than any other digital video camera brand. The large sensor video camera market is in its infancy, and Panasonic, with the AF100, has followed suit with another amazing camera. While I have purchased a large sensor digital video camera from another brand based on my personal needs, at this time, there is no way that I am not going to keep my eye on what Panasonic has, or is going to introduce. I am sure that they going to continue to impress.


Kegan said:
Maybe we go back to talking about The Raid: Redemption?

Kegan
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Yeah, I checked out the trailer and from what I see... I'M IN!!!! I checked and the movie is playing here in the Detroit area. I am going to try and see it this weekend. I am geeked. From the trailer, it seems (To me) to be like "Assault on Precinct 13"... on steroids! I love that laser point dramatic need action sh*t!!!
 
Just came back from seeing The Raid. Crazy action film, almost wall to wall fighting scenes.

Visually, I thought the camera held up quite well. Yes, it was noisy in a handful of shots but it also seemed like the whole film was very darkly lit; even underlit in a few shots. But overall I was very impressed.
 
A review (on the movie, not pixels), my emphases:

http://www.startribune.com/entertainment/movies/144925845.html
There are by my count 63 individually described fatalities in "The Raid: Redemption," and enough maimings to overwhelm a regional trauma center. The film is a sort of high-speed demolition derby except with human actors.

It is 100 percent highly concentrated whoop-ass, and it is sensational.

Like "Die Hard," it follows the Aristotelian unities of action, place and time, following an Indonesian police SWAT team through an attack on a multi-story tenement housing the scurviest thugs on the archipelago. The battle rages up stairwells, down hallways, into individual apartments, out the windows and back inside again. Through group melees, one-on-one duels and every form of warfare in between, the action pauses only long enough to reload.

Yet the film doesn't stint on character and story.
Director Gareth Evans, a Welsh expat making a name in Asian action cinema, knows how to tell a frenetic story with fastidious care.


Action star Iko Uwais plays Rama, a handsome, upright young cop who is at the point of the spear. He starts his day by tenderly caressing his pregnant wife and kneeling for his morning devotions before strapping on his tactical assault gear. His time on the prayer rug isn't a political signal. He practices silat, an Indonesian martial-arts discipline that's closely associated with the teachings of Islam as a form of character building. As the film unfolds, we learn that he also has a noble personal motive for participating in the highly dangerous raid. He's not an invulnerable Bruce Lee type, more a cousin to Bruce Willis' John McClane, tough as nails but human enough to break out in flop sweat.


The objective is to capture Tama (creepy Ray Sahetapy), a coldblooded drug lord whose chief enforcers are the brutal Mad Dog (stunt choreographer Yayan Ruhian) and brainy Andi (Doni Alamsyah). Amid spattery death by machine gun, machete, stair railing and filing cabinet, there are revelations and complications aplenty, with hidden corruption, secret family ties and innocent bystanders caught in the crossfire.

Every element fits (including the propulsive score by Mike Shinoda of Linkin Park), adding richness to the story without slowing the relentless action.


There are stunt set pieces here that will be talked about for years, from a six-minute-long fight scene to battles that burst through walls and even floors. The movie is a kick that will leave your head ringing for days.

84% (with some great comments) on Rotten Tomatoes:
http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/the_raid_redemption/

I hope to see it this weekend... after shooting (for Neiman Marcus, not a movie) with my AF100.
 
Barry, I think your response to me is far more "offensive" than my message. Is there really a need to talk about me being "slapped"? To call me an "ass"? Really?

I'm entitled to my opinion. I'm entitled so say I feel one company is not giving the support or focus that other companies are giving, based on what I observe and experience.

I'm entitled to react to what I saw as a quick dismissal of what I thought was a very good suggestion.

We finally have a really good, quite successful film, ACTUALLY IN THEATERS in a limited release (that is getting wider every week) that was shot on the AF100 - and Jan seemed uninterested, and seemed to quickly dismiss any promotion of that fact for what seemed like odd reasons (the initial reasons, not the later reasons). That irked me. Partially because I know some of the people involved in the film, I will admit. Partially because it seemed in line with some issues that have bothered me for a while as an AF100 owner and DVXUser member.

I'm getting to the point where I really have to ask: Are we not allowed to be dissatisfied in this forum? Are we not allowed to react negatively to something Panasonic (or someone representing Panasonic) does? Are we not allowed to be critical of Panasonic?

It seems we're not. It seems every time some of us express a crticial opinion (whether it's about image issues with the AF100 itself, the firmware update issue, or now, marketing focus and support by Panasonic).... we just get slammed, told we're wrong, told we're rude.

If anything I said, or the way I presented it was rude or offensive, I apologize. But I really thought I was just giving an opinion (repeatedly framing it that way) - albeit a critical one, yes.

But I really, really hope we're allowed to do so here. I really hope we're not turning into REDUSER.
 
@Steve, remember you (any of us) are not owed anything from Panasonic or Jan.

And I agree, your post came across as very aggressive and very rude. So much so that your points are lost amongst it.
 
mm yeh well maybe i'm the only one that doesn't see Steve's post as offensive and rude. It def was passionate ,however I think he was giving his opinion (not necessarily fact) on what his experience is. Yeh i 2 hope this isn't going to turn into a REDUSER.

@EndCredits, remember who pays these companies. Both parties need each other. These companies are nothing without us the users, from mom and pops point and shoot to Hollywood


Back to the topic....I may be travelling to FL soon, hopefully I will get to see this film. DEF wanna check it out.
 
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I believe this is the link to the AF100 wishlist.
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?207588-AF-100-Wishlist-Suggestion-Discussion-Thread

Panasonic listens; Jan listens.

Again, I believe we as a community need to make more films that show the camera in this light (The Raid)! I can't help but to think that users want another Reverie, but a Panasonic one, and that's not gonna happen if we don't make films. I don't care about anything that comes out of Laforet's mouth one way or another, but the impact of his work undeniable. Where is the work of our community that has that level of gravity? It's why I want to talk not only about the camera that made the movie but also howthey made the movie and see if there are any techniques to exploit.
 
Thank you for that, jambredz.

But again, if I came across too harsh, I apologize.

And to contribute to the "get this back on topic" spirit:

If you haven't seen THE RAID yet - go see it. And tell your friends to go see it. It's AMAZING. An incredible action film, made by a group of very passionate, very talented people. A guaranteed night of fun at the movies, if action is your thing.

And tell everyone you know in the industry that it was shot on an AF100.
 
Forums like this save tons and tons of $$ for the big firms like Panasonic regarding market research.
It's very simple: companies need to make money. For them to able to do so they must know what the consumer wants. The better you
know the consumer the better you can target his/hers needs. And the better you know the consumer the better you can manipulate him, ie. have some stuff implemented in the new model and leave some other stuff for the next model that you know that is what the consumer wants, etc., etc.
Companies used to do tons of market research (which I am sure they still do) to get an approximation of the market wishes and stance.
But now this has become a totally different task with the advent of the internet and forums like this.
The biggest plus for a company is to know his buyer as much as humanly possible and this forum helps to do so A LOT.
Companies make money off of us. Don't forget that. Steve R didn't do nothing wrong. Jans response was also appropriate. The response from barry calling him an ass and getting slapped - that was wrong.

I am grateful that companies are able to listen to us now more so than ever. But this is also very good for them to. Don't forget that - we are doing them a favour. If they won't make a product that is targeted correctly we won't buy it. It's that simple. But now they can target the product with a pinpoint accuracy, thanks to people like Barry who created this forum. They now what the market needs and wants and they can manipulate us as much as they want. Let's not pretend that this isn't so. We the story tellers should now absolutely the most about manipulation. It's basically the most fundamental thing that we do. I know it's what I do - I study storytelling, I do cognitive research, I study emotional structure, etc., etc. And it's all about selling the product and having control of how you are selling it to the consumer. It's just that in this instance that we are the consumers.
I'll shot with what ever I get my hands on. This are not toys, this are tools, don't get to emotional. If companies won't produce great tools than I'll shoot with that and create some not so great footage. I don't care. It's all about the money anyway (being a bit cynical here, I actually love what I do).


Great film BTW:) I would also truly like to see it in person on the big screen. But that's not going to happen here. I'll just have to wait like many others for the Blu-ray.
 
Wow.

I have seen a lot of unjustified attacks on Panasonic and Jan, but until now, I've never seen anyone say Panasonic doesn't support digital cinema with its products.
 
I don’t want to beat up the noise issue in a few shots but I have shot at night with the AF-100 and haven't had anything look like that before. I think the camera was setup wrong for a few scenes and that caused the problems. They probably had a fast paced production schedule and when I move to fast I make mistakes. Anyway it really was a minor issue that didn’t take away from this fun flick. I kinda want to see it again:thumbsup:

Jan.

Thanks for all you bring to the community and supporting the AF-100. This camera changed me as a professional and for that I’m truly grateful. See you at NAB!
 
I just got back from a screening of the movie and all I have to say is, HOLY SH*T, WHAT A MOVIE!!!!

I think it ranks right up there with some of my other favorite great low budget action flicks like "The Warriors" (1979), "Assault on Precinct 13" (1976), "Trespass" (1992) and "Crows Zero" (2007). For the record, in my book, "The Raid: Redemption" beats "Old Boy" (2003) hands down. It is non-stop action and the fight scenes are outstanding. I highly recommend it.

If I have any issues with the cinematography, it is more about some of the aesthetic choices that the filmmakers made (Mainly in the grade and their color choices) rather than any issues with their choice of camera. I saw it projected at a theater that has just upgraded to Sony 4K projection and without a doubt the AF100 is more than capable to shoot images for the big screen! I did note some scenes, under very low light conditions, that showed some noise, but I think that any camera currently available would have been stressed under some of the shots like they pulled off in this flick. There is one scene, very, very low light where I thought the AF100 held up amazingly well. It is the scene in the stairwell where the one cop strains to see the armed bad guys a floor above him. While a tad bit noisy, it was still very good, and I just can't help but think that just a few years ago, there is no way a pro-sumer video camera could have held up to light levels like they appeared to be shooting under in that scene. Could have the film looked "Better" if it was shot with a more expensive camera? Maybe, but I don't think that would have increased my enjoyment of the movie one iota.

Good job to the filmmakers behind "The Raid:Redemption" and good job Panasonic.
 
I really want to watch The Raid but it isn't out here in the UK until mid May!

Looks HILARIOUS. I love excessive and honest fun films like these. Movies like Expendables and Rambo and The Chaser are right up my tea.

Normally I agree with Roger Ebert, but I'm gonna have to make an exception until I see this film. I mean, Roger Ebert didn't even like classics like Armageddon, The Usual Suspects, or Spice World for God's sake!


Steve R said:
Barry, I think your response to me is far more "offensive" than my message. Is there really a need to talk about me being "slapped"? To call me an "ass"? Really?
I'm entitled to my opinion.

If anything I said, or the way I presented it was rude or offensive, I apologize.
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But if you step back and read it - you were an ass. Really. It's not a question of 'if'... because, you were! Whatever valid concerns you had are heavily marred by how it was presented. Good job you aren't the film's Producer. Really, really doesn't look professional or good for you (and by extension name-dropping The Raid's crew) to show so much emotionally angst at Panasonic for not supporting the film as much as you think it should when it isn't even released fully yet?
 
Marketing digital cinema cameras has become a "blogosphere phenomenon", sth the companies just didn´t (and still don´t) understand and where happy to let someone else do it for them.
People who never shot a movie suddenly became the guiding voices of a whole industry. Consumers go crazy about the latest one minute "A day at the beach" test shoot of their favorite apostle.
Who really knows, if someone will buy their cameras because of that, but who cares, this marketing segment doesn´t need a budget anyways...
All emotions put aside: The more DVXuser will come back from a screening of The Raid and say "Holy smokes!", the more it would be unwise of Panasonic not to try everything possible in their power to get this thing shown and their name attached to it.
Finally a "real movie" shot with the so far most overlooked digital cinema camera out there. Well, at least I´m looking forward to seeing it screened...
 
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Spartacus said:
All emotions put aside: The more DVXuser will come back from a screening of The Raid and say "Holy smokes!", the more it would be unwise of Panasonic not to try everything possible in their power to get this thing shown and their name attached to it.
Finally a "real movie" shot with the so far most overlooked digital cinema camera out there. Well, at least I´m looking forward to seeing it screened...
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It sure would benefit them to do so...probably. But we are not employed in theirs marketing and product management office so lets not pretend we know what's best for them. And we are also not marketing experts so saying stuff like this is also a moot point IMHO.
 
KINOKS said:
And we are also not marketing experts so saying stuff like this is also a moot point IMHO.
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I´m just addressing common sense here, really no need for special expertise ;)
For decades you could read "Panavision" or "Arriflex" in the end credits, now sometimes "Shot on RED".
If with "what's best for them" you refer to their "secret 10 year plan" or sth like that, I really don´t know and just hope they come out with a AF200 very soon...
My 2c.
 
ON TOPIC:


I've been a bit quiet about the actual topic of this thread, the movie, but I sawr it last week and I was still processing it. So you guys know, the DP has been a part of this community since 2005, and you can see the thread on Merantau (HPX500 + 35mm ADapter) right here: http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?170263-Merantau-feature-film-HPX500-amp-pro35

Matt's no stranger to working with Panasonic cameras, and always puts them to good use. What was most impressive about THE RAID, to me, was how Matt covered the action. As a pretty huge action fan, I found a ton to appreciate in the movie and a lot of it was attributed to excellent, very precise camera work.

While everyone else saw noise, I actually didn't where I watched it, and the only things that truly stuck out to me were the color pallete (obviously a post grade), and the lower resolution. I didn't see any noise, or I couldn't identify where you guys sawr it.

I only noticed the low resolution because the subtitles were sharp, haha. So it made the low resolution sort of stick out.

What I did not notice was rolling shuttering getting in the way of ANY SHOT. I'm curious as to whether or not rolling shutter fixes were done in post, and that's something that Matt can answer.

As for the movie itself, it's an action piece. And, it delivers on what it promises. Not gonna go into the story and all of that, because I didn't pay for that, I paid for beat-em-up and I got a lot more than I bargained for. LoL.

I invited Matt to come and talk to us, if he has time. Hopefully the way this thread went won't deter him, and his interaction will inspire more AF100 owners and shooters, and those looking to Panasonic for the next helping.
 
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Went to see it last night and was absolutely blown away. Not much time for pixel peeping because the film just moves. I'm not sure what level of digital projection we have, I imagine 2K as I'm in a small market, but digital shows everything warts and all. Most previous Red, Genesis, etc digital films have had film prints which I think sells the look. There were a few scenes with noise, but they were obviously extremely low light scenarios, that would have been unshootable until recently, certainly not objectionable. The rest of the film was very clean, there was more grain in the big budget trailers that preceded.

Its not going to make me run out and buy one, but if I was an early adopter I can't imagine regretting the purchase, or needing to trade up in less than six months, unless business is booming and could totally justify it.

You couldn't make that movie with a GH2, the rolling shutter would kill you, but knowing that you could make a movie if you are careful about it is quite liberating. There really are no excuses anymore
 
David Saraceno said:
One of the true joys inherent in participating at this web site is Jan's presence, and the responsiveness of her and the company to user suggestions through the years.

Kinda of really surprised at Steve's post and its tenor.
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Indeed. Jan rocks! How many company reps find your films on Vimeo and give you props?!!! Rock on!


Back to "The Raid." it came to my city today and I saw it this afternoon. As a long time martial arts practitioner/film fan, it was a true actiongasm!! Best action choreography in years! The film had an amazing kinetic flow and had some cringe/gasp worthy scenes. It shocked my buddy who was watching it so much he visibly averted his eyes in his seat!

That being said, the theatre I saw it at must have been mis calibrated. The film looked VERY out of focus on many shots. And in general, very washed out, grey and noisy. Did anyone else have this issue at their theatre? Is it just the one I went to? I hope so.
 
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