Who loves their HPX370?

C

clarencest

Member
Hello all-

Longtime lurker, first time poster. Thanks for all the help you've already given me.

I am about to make a significant (for me) investment in a camera system. Initially I was on track to purchase the HPX170, but then I learned about the 370 and the soon to expire rebate and changed my mind. Now I see a lot of issues on this forum regarding the 370's image quality.

I understand the nature of a forum and that people are more likely to post problems than compliments to a piece of equipment, but my question is this: Who out there just absolutely loves their HPX370? Because if I'm going to spent 8k on a camera, I need to LOVE it. So is there a quiet majority out there that is cruising along happily making a living with their 370? Or is everyone having some issues?

My experience is with Varicam/HDX900 but mostly with an HVX200a that I LOVE. Reading some of the soft focus/noise issues people are having, it almost sounds like I should go with the 170 and avoid CMOS all together. Or do you think that if I'm happy with the image of an HVX200, I'll be happy with the 370?

Help! And thank you in advance. Looking to make my purchase before the rebate expires.

clarenst
 
Just my cent, but if i was searching for a new 3xx camera i will buy the 300. You will have EXACTLY the same camera with a low price ( roomy101 is selling his one ) and you will have the blurring problem only in 1080p, but you can easly reduce it in post. The 300 is a camera with a lot of users and all of them have used it a lot. So you will have more feedback and resolutions.
That's my opinion! I will never buy again a new product. I prefer to buy something that people have used. I tell you this because i have buyed a 371 and immediately changed with a 301. I don't like the PAP filter for the noise suppression. But here you can find a lot of 371's users that are happy with this camera. Just an opinion!
Bests,
Roberto
 
I use a 370 at work and am very happy with it.

I don't shoot much HD with it (We operate in SD 90% of the time still); but what I have shot in HD I've been happy with.

There are a couple of little quirks of course (like the codec defaulting to the highest quality instead of remembering what I used last when switching modes); but overall I find the camera to hold up and perform very well.



On a side note; Never buy a camera because of a rebate. Consider it simply a bonus if the timing works out.
Instant rebates are decent; though when they expire, there's generally some other incentive (that may or may not be better for you) that follows it. Mail in rebates may show up some day; but don't count on it anytime soon.

- Mikko
 
I have the HPX301 and YES I LOVE THIS CAMERA!

It is amazing for the money and two years down the line there is not a lot that I can not do with this camera, as said the 370/371 is basically the same camera but with an additional filter setting that will reduce the noise (never had a problem with it anyway) but in a trade off it makes the images a bit more smeary on fast pans.

Have a look at these two reports on the 301 and the 371:
http://thebrownings.name/WHP034/pdf/WHP034-ADD38_Panasonic_HPX301.pdf
http://thebrownings.name/WHP034/pdf/WHP034-ADD53_Panasonic_HPX371.pdf

The latest HPX370 is a bargain with that $2k rebate and the list of codecs that are on-board will cover everything from DV through to full broadcast AVC Intra 100 1920x1080 4.2.2 10 bit.

Ok 1/3" chips are its limitation but if you keep it wide open all the time you will get enough shallow DOF from most situations, the 1/3" chips are better wide open anyway but the CAC correction really works and the pictures are superb.

I was going to buy an HPX2700 past year but didn't in the end as I have used the 301 on everything from corporates thru local DVCPro news to full indie feature drama and broadcast HD, I even had my first NTSC booking last week and whilst 24p was a bit more wobbly than my usual 25p mode it was still useable once the final pictures were rendered out.

if you can have a look at some footage played out through a proper HD video card such as the blackmagic or the aja kona and even on a domestic TV it looks stunning, people mention the noise levels but if you shoot at -3db all the time this is not an issue and I have certainly found it a problem as I have my camera's set-up to the BBC reports above and only change from cine like D or V depending how much contrast I want.

Hope this helps and I am glad I bought the HPX301 two years ago as it is a great camera for the money and the P2 system with all those on board codec options is superb.
 
Roberto Tafuro said:
I will never buy again a new product. I prefer to buy something that people have used. I tell you this because i have buyed a 371 and immediately changed with a 301. I don't like the PAP filter for the noise suppression.
Click to expand...

Thanks for your response! I've heard you say before about swapping your 370 for the 300. Is the PAP filter always on? Can't be turned off?

I'm looking to buy new for warranty and because I plan on having this camera for a long time.
 
mikkowilson said:
I don't shoot much HD with it (We operate in SD 90% of the time still); but what I have shot in HD I've been happy with.
On a side note; Never buy a camera because of a rebate. Consider it simply a bonus if the timing works out.
Click to expand...

Thanks for your response. I'm going to be shooting mostly HD 720 24pn on this camera doing run/gun ENG type short documentary features. Lots of outdoor with regular indoor/lit environment shoots as well. May explore 1080 for a couple of corporate projects.

RE: the rebate...I think this is a case of good timing. I wasn't aware of the 370 until a week ago. Seems like a 170 on steroids. Since I was already planning on the 170, I think this is just a great mix of high end features with a low end price and a still compact body.
 
GaryNattrass said:
I have the HPX301 and YES I LOVE THIS CAMERA!...

Ok 1/3" chips are its limitation but if you keep it wide open all the time you will get enough shallow DOF from most situations, the 1/3" chips are better wide open anyway but the CAC correction really works and the pictures are superb...

if you can have a look at some footage played out through a proper HD video card such as the blackmagic or the aja kona and even on a domestic TV it looks stunning, people mention the noise levels but if you shoot at -3db all the time this is not an issue and I have certainly found it a problem as I have my camera's set-up to the BBC reports above and only change from cine like D or V depending how much contrast I want.

Hope this helps and I am glad I bought the HPX301 two years ago as it is a great camera for the money and the P2 system with all those on board codec options is superb.
Click to expand...


Good to hear. I'd rather 2/3" chips but simply can't afford it! That said, this seems to be my best bet!

I've read a lot about the lens getting soft at certain apertures due to the size of the chips. You haven't had any real trouble with that?

I'm going to be posting on an Avid DS system and can't wait to see media running through it.

Thanks for the reply.
 
Roberto Tafuro said:
You will have EXACTLY the same camera with a low price
Click to expand...
This is not true. The HPX370 has a new imaging block, in combination with a new noise suppression filter. The HPX370 has vastly better skew performance in 1080/24p mode than the HPX300 does. As for the noise thing, you can turn it on or off; if it works for you, turn it on and you'll get a lot cleaner imagery, with the potential of some moving image artifacts, if you are bothered by those artifacts you can turn the filter off to get rid of them, at the expense of it getting grainier and more like the HPX300. But at least with the 370 you have the choice.

If those two things don't matter to you, the HPX300 is a lot less expensive and is otherwise, as far as I know, the same camera as the HPX370.
 
clarencest said:
I've read a lot about the lens getting soft at certain apertures due to the size of the chips. You haven't had any real trouble with that?
Click to expand...
This is true of every 1/3" HD camera, but more true the sharper the camera is. Meaning, when you start stopping down the lens, the lens itself is limited in how much resolution it can pass through, and the more you stop it down the softer it will get. If you have a sharper camera (like the 370) you'll see the softening sooner than you would on a camera that's not as sharp (such as an HMC150). On the HPX300/370, you will definitely see softening by f/8, and you may technically start seeing the red channel getting a little softer starting as soon as f/4. It has nothing to do with the lens -- you'd have the same problem on a $80,000 top-of-the-line broadcast lens. It's due to a principle in physics called "diffraction". Definitely keep the iris as open as you can to keep the images as sharp as you can get them.
 
Barry_Green said:
This is not true. The HPX370 has a new imaging block, in combination with a new noise suppression filter. The HPX370 has vastly better skew performance in 1080/24p mode than the HPX300 does. As for the noise thing, you can turn it on or off; if it works for you, turn it on and you'll get a lot cleaner imagery, with the potential of some moving image artifacts, if you are bothered by those artifacts you can turn the filter off to get rid of them, at the expense of it getting grainier and more like the HPX300. But at least with the 370 you have the choice.
Click to expand...

Thank you for clarifying that Mr. Green and thank you for teaching me how to maximize my results with the HVX200a. In your opinion, if I'm satisfied with the image of the 200, will I be pleased by the 370? I suppose I'm fearful because I've never noticed any picture softness issues with the 200 and I'd hate to step up in price and be less satisfied with a more expensive camera. Currently I cut 200 media with footage from an HDX900 and personally think they cut very well together.

Thanks again for taking the time.
 
Thanks for the clarification Barry I certainly saw more skew with my 301 in 24p mode but as I never tend to use this being in 25p land it has never been a problem to me and the first job I did in NTSC last week was a locked off shot so all was OK.
 
Well, again, it depends on why you're wanting to upgrade. The 300/370 is a substantial chunk of hardware with a lot of capabilities that the 200A doesn't have, but it's also 2x the price. And there are some things (like autofocus) that the 200A does that the 300/370 aren't going to do.

If you love the Panasonic "mojo" and your workflow needs HD-SDI output, 10-bit AVC-Intra, a shoulder-mount form factor, interchangeable lenses, and/or four channels of audio and a wireless mic receiver, then the HPX300/370 is a no-brainer upgrade. You'll think you've died and gone to heaven when you look through the viewfinder or at its LCD panel, both of those are so much better than the 200A's that it's laughable.

As far as sharpness goes, the HPX300/370 are substantially and noticeably sharper than the 200A.

But the 200A can use $50 batteries, the 300/370 requires big ol' Anton Bauer bricks (or IDX or whatever) and that'll set you back somewhere near a thousand bucks for a two-battery-and-charger system or so. The HVX200A, while a chunky fat boy, is a small and relatively lightweight handheld camera, the HPX300/370 (while being smaller and lighter than most shoulder-mount cameras) is a serious chunk of hardware, weighs more, is larger, will need a bigger case, can't be taken on an airplane as carry-on, etc. None of that may matter to you, I'm just voicing some differences so that you can make a decision based on what you really need.

Another option for you might be an HPX500. If you love love love the HVX200A but want a shoulder-mount camera, the HPX500 is basically the same as the HVX200A but with full 2/3" chips. And people have been letting them go for fairly cheap, I saw someone here sold a complete HPX500 kit on ebay for like $8500. The HPX300/370 has some advantages over the HPX500 (such as sharper images and a color viewfinder and a wireless slot) but the HPX500 has a few advantages of its own too (such as 4 XLR ports and those lovely 2/3" chips with the attendant much shallower DOF and the wider range of lenses and ability to use more iris settings without worrying about diffraction). And, of course, the HPX500 is CCD, vs. the HPX300/370's CMOS, so if you prefer CCD, a used HPX500 might be an interesting option for you to consider.

There are many things I really, really like about the HPX370, and if I was buying there's no question that I'd go with the HPX370 instead of the HPX300 simply because I hate skew and the skew in the 370 is sooooo much improved (in 24p) versus the 300. But the choice between HPX500 and HPX370 is a little tougher... the HPX500's viewfinder is strictly black and white and standard-def, vs. the lovely color VF on the 300/370. But man, 2/3" CCDs, they're so luscious as compared to 1/3" CMOS. But (at least in terms of new) the price of the 370 is soooo much lower than the price of an HPX500. Especially with the rebate. But, the price of used HPX500s is a lot more competitive...

So, again, it really comes down to -- why do you want to upgrade? What are you expecting an upgrade to do for you? Answer that, and we can probably help guide you towards which product is more likely to do what you want.
 
Great stuff guys, this is really helping.

Barry_Green said:
So, again, it really comes down to -- why do you want to upgrade? What are you expecting an upgrade to do for you? Answer that, and we can probably help guide you towards which product is more likely to do what you want.
Click to expand...

I should clarify, this isn't technically an upgrade for me exactly. I am leaving a full-time gig to go freelance and will be purchasing my own equipment. At my current position we use the 900/200 combo extensively. For my purposes I was initially looking at the 170 but am now thinking 370.

I want the longer lens with nice macro control and smoother controls in general. I like the sound of the updated viewfinder and LCD. While ergonomics and image quality are my primary concerns, the larger camera has more "client appeal", so that's good. I need a run and gun camera that's rugged and adaptable enough for a variety strange field situations but equally at home in a formally lit interview setting. I also need something compact as I will be travelling alone most of the time.

I'm sold on the P2 workflow. I just wish Avid DS would import natively instead of using Media Composer to clean it first. The 500 looks nice but I think it's out of my price range. The kits B&H is putting together for the 370 are crazy after the rebate. Also, the 500 doesn't use AVC-Intra, does it? Do you all see that as a limitation given the newer generation of cameras? Probably an academic question, as I said, the 500 is a little rich for my blood.
 
Thank you for your interest in this thread Barry! When i say that you'll have the same camera it's because i've made a lot of comparisons between luminance and noise with booth camera and the result was really close. The skew is better in every mode on the 371 but if you learn to shoot with MOS cameras this doesn't seems to be a real problem. The only thing that they have to do on the 370 series was to eliminate the bad pixel motion in the image at 1080p. On the contrary the issue is replicate ,with the first filter , and make it worst. But, for my taste, the problem of the 301 are present in the 371,and is much difficult to eliminate them in post. Last week i was in a Panasonic store near my city, with Panasonic techs, and show them what happens when the 371 is not locked on the tripod. First they were sure that the issue comes out sometimes, but after my tests they can't reply nothing! I have tried the first filter,not the second one, the one that was on board originally, and it happens in every system setup,exept SD. This is my only disappoint about the 371. But the new filter i think that reduce the issue, making the 371 like a 301...so, if i have to buy a new 3xx camera, i will buy the 301. The performance is the same (exept for the skew and luminosity), the grain is absolutely not a problem using a fast blur in post (0,5 or 1 pixel does the job), i will never use 1080p 24pn with this camera and after a bit of practice you can eliminate all the skew problems using tricks,camera angles etc.
Sorry if i repeat myself, but you have the same issues and flaws on the 371 ,iris max at 5.6 (1/3" MOS),skew - more or less for me is the same,there is! - floating pixels with PAP filter (on the 301 it only happens in 1080p in progressive mode but you can easly eliminate it using gain)- much more blurry pans - ghosting and so on.
But as i always said i love the 301's look, and love my 301. For me the choice is to buy a 300 and spent the rest of money in P2 cards.
Barry, i really appreciate your work and your experience, but i really hope that the new 3xx camera will have 1/2 MOS or a global shutter MOS or something that makes this series the top for the price range, and that the new beta test will be done with a camera not locked on the tripod. You can't judge the quality of a shoulder camera on a tripod.
This is not a propaganda! It's an user opinion. This is the best forum i've ever read,because all users shares their experience and problems, and i've find a lot of people that uses the 371 in a brilliant way. My skill is not at their level, so i've learned a lot of things here!


@Clarence: the filter now has two possibilities. Unfortunately i'm absolutely not practice of this new feature, so you can ask to all the 371's users how it works and which are the benefit of this new update.
 
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I'm very happy with my 370. There are things I wish were better, but for the money, it's a great camera. We had a JVC HD110 before this camera. The image is much better on the 370, and the build quality is miles above the JVC. My biggest gripe is the EVF, I don't like it. The color is nice to have, but I haven't gotten it to come close to reality yet. A few other minor gripes, but nothing to dissuade anyone from buying the camera. When you consider all the models of shoulder mount cameras (a necessity for me), there's nothing with as good an image anywhere near the price.
Ed
 
I really like my 370 too, and I don't think I'll be selling it, even if I get something newer, as it would make a nice b-cam. What I like most is that it's built tough and can take a beating, the codec can take a beating, and you should be careful not to take a beating too! Being a solid chunk of metal and high-impact plastic, make sure to take it off the tripod whenever moving it around or changing the tripod height, otherwise you'll be asking for injury.

...is a serious chunk of hardware, weighs more, is larger, will need a bigger case, can't be taken on an airplane as carry-on, etc.
Click to expand...
You'd be surprised to learn what they let you take along on Russian airlines! ...Probably because we have this image of airport workers tossing luggage from three story heights, so all valuables go in the plane.

Also, the 500 doesn't use AVC-Intra, does it? Do you all see that as a limitation given the newer generation of cameras? Probably an academic question, as I said, the 500 is a little rich for my blood.
Click to expand...
DVCPRO HD is still a very robust codec that's only a small step down from AVC-Intra, is faster to edit, and can be directly recorded via firewire. It's still 4:2:2 Intra, bitrate varies with framerate from 40Mbps @ 24p to 100Mbps @ 50/60p, but it's a little less than full HD at 960x720 for 720p and 1440x1080 for 1080p. Speaking of which, the 500 has a 960x720 sensor, so it's actually a less-than-720p camcorder, it's fine to use SD lenses on this one.
 
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Barry_Green said:
.....the HPX300/370 (while being smaller and lighter than most shoulder-mount cameras) is a serious chunk of hardware, weighs more, is larger, will need a bigger case, can't be taken on an airplane as carry-on, etc.
Click to expand...

That's strange, I could have sworn I've flown all over the world with my 370 as carry-on, even commuter jets. Let me think....... yes, I have flown at least to Africa, Europe, and Latin America (and all over the U.S.) with my 370 as carry-on. :)
Ed
 
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I would rent the 370 before you buy. The C-Mos sensor is not like a CCD camera.

It's easy to focus on all the nice things about a new camera you have your eye on AND you're about to pull the trigger on an investment.
 
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