Which lens would serve me best for this?

I

ironpony

Carbonite Member
I need a new lens by Friday for a scene. I have been doing research and recently found out what a 1.4 lens is. That would help for a night scene I have to shoot coming up, cause before I had to light the night so bright just to fit my 18-55 lens. And even then it wasn't bright enough and still poor quality because of it. Now that I found out about the 1.4, I won't have that problem so much. I tested a 1.4 at night and it worked well. I'll need one of my own in the next few days at most for the scene, but which should I buy?

I was thinking of a 60mm macro lens, cause then I would have the ability to shoot real close up, and with 60mm I could shoot far away. This night I have to shoot is a fight/chase scene, so I don't want a 35mm cause that's too far away. Probably at least a 60mm. But I also want a lens that doesn't have a sensitive focus. For some, if the actors back up five feet, they go out of focus which is not good for a fight scene. Would a 60mm 1.4 be a good choice for all three of those reasons, or do I need something else? Thanks.
 
Light!

Light!

The problem with what you describe for your shoot is this- open a fast lens all the way and you will have to pull carefully. If you shoot at f1.4 you won't be looking at 5 feet, more like 9 inches and it'll lose critical focus. Is there any way to add more light to the scene?
 
You won't get a f/1.4 macro lens of any FL, 2.8 is about the fastest.

Never mind the focal length, how wide a shot do you need? The wider the shot, the shorter the FL of the lens and the deeper your DoF at any given subject distance. Though at f/1.4 "deep" is a relative term.

Also what fitting are you looking for and what's your budget/

Dave
 
Well it's a very microbudget. I have four lights. Two halogens and two florescent panels. Well my other lens, the aperture opens up as wide as 4, but the lights will not light the scene enough. Maybe I need to experiment and put them in other places. What's it take to light an f/4.0 aperture?

And what do you mean by what 'fitting' am I looking for?
 
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What camera are you using?

You could try Samyang's 35 f/1.4 for a "normal" foV (Assuming you're not using a 5DII). Otherwise look for S/H "vintage" lenses, especially if you're on a micro budget (Like me actually !).

The least expensive option would be a S/H 50mm f/1.4. As you go away from this the cost will go up exponentially. If you really are on a tight budget you may be better off looking for something a stop or two slower, not only will they cost a heck of a lot less but you may well find the optical quality a bit better as well.

As you intimated it may be an idea to look at acquiring more lights, I would look for good-ish Fluoros. If you haven't already got it, have a look at Barry and David's "Lighting for Film and Television".

Dave
 
Well I got those flourescents, that are four tubular bulbs on one panel. Are those what you mean by Flouros? I have to do a scene at night with men all dressed in black, and ski masks, running through an alleyway. I have to keep up with them and not let my lens go out of focus. Any 1.4 lens that's good for that? I see if those flouros I have plus the halogens are good enough, but it's hard to tell, as it could not be enough once I get to the location in a few days. I was hoping there would be a 1.4. that can keep focus while doing a chase like that.

The thing is, is that my DP had to leave production on a personal emergency, so I am left to shoot the dark night scenes, myself. I suck at lighting, and the more I use the too overlit it looks, and just looks too bright, on the actors faces. But if I go low, then it's just too dark. I find that a 1.4 cures that, but got the focus problem for chase scenes, and scenes where I have to move the camera.

My cam is the canon T2i by the way.
 
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A couple of things come to mind.

1) I wouldn't try to mix tungsten and fluorescents. Even if you're using really good ones (And from what you've said they may be cheap) you'll have to take colour temp into account which means using colour correction filters, which will take a lot of your light. I'd be inclined to go with the fluoros only. If the fluoros are cheap the you'll likely have a horrble green tint as well.

2) I'm not a DP or anything like, but the general advice I've seen on here would be to light more than you need, and then pull the exposure and / or black level down in post.

As you're using a T2i same as me (Only I call it a 550D) I'd be looking wide-ish say 24mm or shorter to improve your DoF prospects.

But as I said I'm far rom being an expert, if one is reading this, please come in1

Dave
 
Okay thanks. I've never done any exposure pulling in post before but I might just need to do that. Any idea on how many lights I will need? I don't want to make their faces too bright either, unless that can be pulled down in post too. But do I need to get one of those programs that cost thousands of dollars to do that? So how is it that some cameras have a focus that is in focus all the time? Can I get a lens that can do that, for good night shooting?
 
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What editing program are you using? Most half-way decent ones will have some form of colour-correction or colour effect that you can use for exposure control.

There are (As yet) no useful auto-focus lenses for Canon cameras. If the image is all in focus then either it's from a small-sensor cam or from a broadcast camera with autofocus.

In your position I'd probably use a 24 f/2.8 which isn't too expensive and would give you a fighting chance of keeping things in focus. I'd use both fluoros for main light, and perhaps use the tungsten for rim lighting with a colour correction gel.

When you say you're following them are you using some form of stabilisation? I hope so.

Got to go, as I'm going out photographing, I really do hope a real expert will come on here, I'm getting a bit out of my depth!

Dave
 
Looks like you have a lot of research to do. f 1.4 is great for low light.
However, you will encounter lens flare and blooming with such a wide aperture. Not to mention you will have a problem with focusing as you will have a very shallow depth of field.
Also, it sounds like you will be moving a bit with your camera and so a wide open aperture really isnt what you want.
Have you thought about shooting it during the day (mid day) then changing the colors in post to give it a "dusk" look?
You will have plenty of even light and a smaller aperture so focus isnt a problem. There are tons of resources and tips you can find all over the net about these techniques.
 
Yes, I hadn't thought of that, the OP could try Day for Night provided the light's overcast and soft.

For fast lenses, Canon do a 24 f/1.4 but it isn't cheap, Samyang have that 35 f/1.4 which would be long-normal, and of course Sigma do a 30 f/1.4 DC "normal" lens for crop-frame cameras.

But really for that sort of fluid chase / fight sort of scene keeping the aperture relatively closed would give him a fighting (No pun) chance.

Dave
 
daihard said:
Looks like you have a lot of research to do. f 1.4 is great for low light.
However, you will encounter lens flare and blooming with such a wide aperture. Not to mention you will have a problem with focusing as you will have a very shallow depth of field.
Also, it sounds like you will be moving a bit with your camera and so a wide open aperture really isnt what you want.
Have you thought about shooting it during the day (mid day) then changing the colors in post to give it a "dusk" look?
You will have plenty of even light and a smaller aperture so focus isnt a problem. There are tons of resources and tips you can find all over the net about these techniques.
Click to expand...

Okay thanks. I am shooting with the camera, hooked onto a steadicam. Well for the plot I need it to take place real late at night, in order to make sense. So would I be able to shoot at late dusk or something, then blacken the whole sky in post, to look like midnight? If I wide aperture is not what I need then, how do I get the 18-55 lens bright enough? I could hook up a light to the camera, so that the light is right there, going into the lens, but you cannot see it, if that's a good idea.

Is there any way I can do it with a DSLR like a camcorder, and have it work well for low light shooting, and have it with a lens that will stay focused all the time?
 
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Not by using a DSLR like an ordinary camcorder, though that might be an idea, shoot the scene on an "ordinary" camcorder with autofocus and image stabilisation. If you're shooting with a 1/3" chip the lens could still open up to say f/1.6 or 1.8 without loosing focus.

If you put a light on camera then you risk it looking like "reality" "Documentary" footage.

OTOH if you can avoid showing the sky doing DFN even at dusk would give you a broad light source, and a better chance of pulling it off.

Can you contact your DP (Phone / text / email) to bounce some ideas off him?

TBH I'm running out of ideas here.

Dave
 
Firstly, check:
http://www.videocopilot.net/tutorials/day_to_night_conversion/
With a steadycam, you can focus on keeping it at eye level and not to wide so you see the sky...you should be okay.
Also intercut to detail shots...feet running, masks, weapons swinging in their hands... heck even slow motion stuff... you can take the focus off the time of day.
High walls in the alley can be a great tool since they hide most of the sky.
Shooting in broad day light, you can use almsot any lens you already have.
Also, this being the first time experimenting with my suggested technique, you should do a few test runs and see what kind of results you get... and where you need to avoid the problem shots.
 
Okay thanks. I tried the halogens and flourescents to compare. The halogens do better with my DSLR. I think I wanna do the day to night thing, but I am scheduled to shoot with the actors for night. It was the original schedule, and this day to night idea, only came to me yesterday. I feel I should stick to the schedule, out of fear of the actors won't be available later. It's happened before. So I will shoot what I have planned, and if they are available later, I will redo the night scene on a day. It's a good back up idea, since the schedule has already been made, weeks before. I will be shooting mostly that tomorrow, with the brief night chase on top of it. So if I have to redo it, it won't take too long. Thanks people. That videocopilot looks like it works. I was just taking a guess and what could be done. So FYI, if I do the day for night thing, I should not show the sky. Good to know.

I will also email that DP and ask him, he's just been out of touch cause of the emergency. Kind of a sensitive time for him, and I don't want to offend him or anything too. But I should ask, since I'm shooting. He says he's never worked with DSLRs before, and his cameras are probably better for working in the dark.

That day for night scene in the videocopilot picture example though was too bright for night, I thought. It looked more like late dusk. I know it was possibly shot then but if I do that, I want mine to look darker, for a creepier effect.
 
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