C200: What stops the C200 from being a near perfect camera?

One thing that also should be kept in mind is when the RAW support will be available. You would expect it all to be ready before the camera is shipping, but we know that's not always the case. If it's not ready - at least in your preferred software - you'll have to transcode in Canon's software and those processing times can be close to real time on even faster systems.

The last thing you want to do is shoot 5 hours of footage and then wait 4-5 hours before you can even edit it. I guess there would be no complains about 8-bit then, ha.

And although the Cinema RAW Light workflow sounds like it will import painlessly, I am interested in learning which RAW data will I be able to manipulate in my NLE/FCPX?

I quoted this a few weeks back: "Imagine a world where we can shoot 12-bit high data rate media, ingest it into our NLE, and be able to change key factors on the fly such as white balance or color space."

Okay, what else? Because if it's just that then that's not a real RAW workflow for me personally.

If you can't change more parameters like exposure, saturation, contrast, tint, etc. in a dedicated RAW control panel then it'll be just like shooting with other high-quality cameras because I'll be bouncing around and doing the same coloring/grading work within FCPX.

If you use Resolve, it's probably less of a concern, but individuals interested in the camera should keep an eye out for when the support will be available and how the NLE will actually handle the footage.
 
NorBro said:
One thing that also should be kept in mind is when the RAW support will be available. You would expect it all to be ready before the camera is shipping, but we know that's not always the case. If it's not ready - at least in your preferred software - you'll have to transcode in Canon's software and those processing times can be close to real time on even faster systems.

The last thing you want to do is shoot 5 hours of footage and then wait 4-5 hours before you can even edit it. I guess there would be no complains about 8-bit then, ha.

And although the Cinema RAW Light workflow sounds like it will import painlessly, I am interested in learning which RAW data will I be able to manipulate in my NLE/FCPX?

I quoted this a few weeks back: "Imagine a world where we can shoot 12-bit high data rate media, ingest it into our NLE, and be able to change key factors on the fly such as white balance or color space."

Okay, what else? Because if it's just that then that's not a real RAW workflow for me personally.

If you can't change more parameters like exposure, saturation, contrast, tint, etc. in a dedicated RAW control panel then it'll be just like shooting with other high-quality cameras because I'll be bouncing around and doing the same coloring/grading work within FCPX.

If you use Resolve, it's probably less of a concern, but individuals interested in the camera should keep an eye out for when the support will be available and how the NLE will actually handle the footage.
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At this point, many of us are making a leap of faith, I agree. Who knows which apps will support it in which different ways? On the few shoots I shoot native codecs on the C100/300, I waste about that much time transcoding to Prores anyway, that's why I bought the Blade but I don't like to have it hanging off the camera for every shoot either. For me, using the Canon app wouldn't be the end of the world for a few months.
 
puredrifting said:
It appears that people expect a $7,500.00 camera to behave like a $16,000.00 camera. Why? Sure it's hobbled but this is nothing new for Canon, they have segmented in this same way since the first EOS C cameras were introduced, don't understand why people are shocked and offended. So much teeth gnashing over marketing decisions made in Japan that buyers have zero control over, Canon operates old school Japanese, all of the Japanese companies have or still do market segmenting in the same way...
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It's more like Canon is so dominating in the sub-$5,000 market that they can make these trades with other Japanese companies from the superior negotiating position. In other words, Nikon cripples video features on its cameras and its sales go into a toilet. Canon can almost brush it off because for every GH4/5 and ASII/RII, it can sell a truck load worth of the Cinema series bodies (100/200/300) while keeping fat margins there due to only having FS-5/7 as competition in that higher sector (for the time being).

PS. Should Canon incorporate some of the C200 features into C300 MKIII and C700 MKII while lowering prices across the board, Red and BMD should start getting really worried. For Panasonic and Sony, pro market is almost negligible in size. For BMD and Red, it is their sole reason for existence.
 
I (we) say it over and over again...a camera can have all of the specs in the world, but if the sensor doesn't look like a million bucks, nothing will change.

Maybe these other companies - as brilliant as they are - just simply cannot figure out what the other two are doing and how they are doing it.
 
Liam Hall said:
As I wrote earlier, if Canon's point with this Cam was to be a RED lite, then fine, I could get behind that, but I don't think that is the case. And reading many of the posts in this thread I believe many people will use the 8 bit codec for 99% of what they do. I could be wrong, we will see
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I think you pretty much nailed it, it is a RED lite, I don't see how it can be compared to anything else, this is all very similar discussion to when the C100 came out at the same time as the RED Scarlet-MX although very different workflows but used on a lot of the same projects for corporates/weddings etc. This time around you have same features and workflow and although the Red Raven is still more pricey.


Liam Hall said:
Anyway, the title of this thread is, 'What stops the C200 from being a near perfect camera' I answered that, did you?
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The question has been answered and debated many times over on this thread but its plain and simple that no camera will ever be near perfect, I feel like it's more rhetorical and its more about why Canon would put out a camera like this...
 
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What would improve video quality more? Going from 8 bit to 10 bit, or going from 150Mbps to 400Mbps? I guess the increased bit rate would help with finer details.
 
NorBro said:
I (we) say it over and over again...a camera can have all of the specs in the world, but if the sensor doesn't look like a million bucks, nothing will change.

Maybe these other companies - as brilliant as they are - just simply cannot figure out what the other two are doing and how they are doing it.
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I don't think people complain much about the image quality of anything but the BMD products. Canon gets ripped for its (unreasonably high) pricing more but C200 seems to have nailed its price/feature sweep spot.

BTW, the next generation of cameras - and this is likely to be 2019-2020 time frame - should have the CFExpress rather than the CFast 2.0 slot and an uncompressed or mildly compressed (~ 2.5 vs. 5 for Raw Light) internal Raw capabilities.
 
People complain about everything! Everyday, ha.

The quality-control of the BM cameras is an issue, but not the actual image quality if the sensor is fine. I'll agree they maybe could now start to worry a bit because of the overall competition...but not RED.
 
NorBro said:
... I'll agree they maybe could now start to worry a bit because of the overall competition...but not RED...
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If Sony, as rumored, releases a $30,000 camera with the (passed down) F65 sensor and a commensurate feature set, then Red will have a real hard time selling anything within that price range.

Additionally, Sony could have had a C200 type camera as well but is "delegating" that corner of the market to Canon. For the time being.
 
An ARRI or a RED is chosen 99% of the time.

We can revisit the conversation in a few years to see where the industry is at because a major change will never happen overnight.

Maybe only if the invention is so revolutionary and dramatic that it has a butterfly effect on everything else.

Until then, you'll see your Sonys and your Varicams and your C700s come and go.
 
DLD said:
It's more like Canon is so dominating in the sub-$5,000 market that they can make these trades with other Japanese companies from the superior negotiating position. In other words, Nikon cripples video features on its cameras and its sales go into a toilet. Canon can almost brush it off because for every GH4/5 and ASII/RII, it can sell a truck load worth of the Cinema series bodies (100/200/300) while keeping fat margins there due to only having FS-5/7 as competition in that higher sector (for the time being)...
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So, quoting myself and I, though not necessarily in that order - new 6D MKII comes out at $2,000 but doesn't have 4K. The cartel giveth and the cartel taketh away.
 
DLD said:
So, quoting myself and I, though not necessarily in that order - new 6D MKII comes out at $2,000 but doesn't have 4K. The cartel giveth and the cartel taketh away.
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Just saw that and had to laugh. a 2017 $2k DSLR camera without 4K. Wow.
 
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