FS7: What Is To Be Gained?
- Thread starter digitalinnovations
- Start date
Alpha Beta Omega
Veteran
Sure, many clients just look at your work or go by recommendation. But when they do ask you'd better have the right one.
digitalinnovations
Well-known member
I decided to just buy one of each...I couldn't decide.
The "look" will always remain a personal issue but, with an external recorder like Convergent Design 7Q+ and a Raw license, you can get the same performance off LT as the "senior" Varicam, which is used on a number of current TV shows. I happen to really like the look but understand that others may prefer something else.
PS. The external recorder should also solve the playback problems mentioned above.
JPNola
Veteran
Well, one school of thought is that as a DP you don't want to own any camera or any lenses because the need to make revenue from the gear influences your creative choices.
Ownership can tie your hands creatively compared to someone who doesn't own and just rents whatever is right for the particular look desired for the project. Your creativity can become boxed in by the capabilities of the camera you own if you do not put the creativity over your need to make money on the investment. It isn't easy to turn down a potential rental and have the production rent from someone else when you could be making that money. If your camera cannot do X, you are not likely to use X in your work because that would mean renting another camera and losing income.
One commercial DP I know personally does not own a camera and has never owned a camera in the 25 yrs that he has been a DP. Another commercial DP I know owns an Amira and the majority of his work is done on the Amira and the lenses that he owns. The former's work is more uninhibited and diverse in look and style than the latter's work.
Alpha Beta Omega
Veteran
If I only were hired to do commercials it would be best to always rent and never own any real filmcamera. But for everything else ownership makes sense as it, at least for me, opens up creativity. Over the years I try to expand my own equipment to fill in the blanks so to speak and that takes me further. So it's not really a question of owning one camera, it's more of a set of cameras to be used where each fit the best. Not to mention grip and stuff.
That's absolutely true. I think there is a big difference between being a DP and being a production company and what you describe is exactly that difference. The problem is that you can only be a DP in the higher end of the market, like commercials, TV and features etc. But 90% of people making a living with video can't do that. The huge majority shoots weddings and corporate with a lot doing everything like their own editing etc. Then owning a camera is basically a must if you want to make any money. DPs are hired for their talent only. If you are a production company you are hired for what you can deliver, which normally should be the most for the least money if you want to compete.
Run&Gun
Veteran
Similar discussions have happened on here, before. If you're a feature film level DP, then owning a camera may not make the most sense. But at most other levels(like where me and you sit, JP), THAT'S where the real money is coming from(camera $ vs labor $: ~2:1). And I'd argue that when talking about most modern cameras today, the limiting factor is the operator, not the camera. I know the limiting factor with me and my gear is ME.
Agreed .. there are also some feature and quite a few Commercial DP,s who own they own cameras too.. but yes for the commoners amongst us.. its nuts not to own your own gear finically .. would you also rent a van for every time you had a shoot..they make alot of money.. you know it works.. you know how it works.. you can change anything super fast.. you have confidence in what it can or cant do.. these day they are all pretty much the same anyway at the various price levels.. all tax deductible.. and they are getting alot cheaper too.. my ideal is to never have to rent anything.. have to pick it up and return and who is ever 100% sure that rental gear is not going to let you down.. its a rental dont be gentle .. there is reason for that saying
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Panasonic-VariCam-LT-ProEx-Kit-Pristine-Condition/322833038684
Bit dodgy with zero feedback....
May you share these tests? Curious how the F3 looks next to them.
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Normally I wouldn't share. Although I wouldn't mind sending you a private download link if you promised not to post it. But unfortunately I don't have it anymore. A long story involving a misunderstanding, a stressing day and an 1AC.
I never bothered posting it online because these types of tests always end up with people whining about something. Fanboys of the cameras complaining their cameras were misused or whatever and this is why it doesn't look as good as the other camera. You pay for the rentals, take the time to do the tests and is nice enough to make it available for everybody for free. Just to have people calling you an idiot because you couldn't put lipstick on a pig, uhr...make their camera shine. So I didn't bother sharing it online. Since I'm not a blogger and the tests were for my own personal decision. But I can tell you the F3 did very well IMO. It wasn't at the bottom of the bunch in my judgement. Talking image only. Not camera overall.
allenfacemire
Well-known member
Clients ask for a lot of things and pay for very few of them.
Remember, we are in Show Business. Show me the Business. If you are buying for prestige, then you are going to take a financial hit. If you can't make a living doing what you do with what you have or what you can afford to get, then it's going to be a rocky retirement someday.
Yep. You can blame it on the ridiculous race to the bottom caused by very cheap gear. Anybody can buy a cheap camera and start a video "business" now. If you look hard enough you can probably find people offering services for 100 bucks. They don't see it drives the whole thing down. So of course clients don't want to pay. But don't blame them. Blame the losers who sell themselves short out of desperation.
Run&Gun
Veteran
Couldn't agree more. I've posted before that we were better off as an industry when you had to spend at least ~$40K on a camera body. It kept all the rates up.
abreu-canedo
Well-known member
Lot's of feedback in this thread. Ultimately, there are many approaches and as you know, there are many ways to work in this vast industry.
I think testing is key. Maybe rent an Amira for an upcoming job. Then rent a Varicam LT for another job, then a Red, etc...this way you can feel what it's like to actually work a real job from a wholistic perspective (image/ergonomics/power/data/post).
The FS7 is indeed a great camera. And even if you get a new camera, perhaps you still keep the FS7...for your gimbal needs.
An Amira will give you better images for the most part...and this may help you make better work, which may help you level-up in the industry. It is also true that better crew and lighting and post will also help you make better work...which will also help you level up. Ultimately you want both. But if you can only afford one, then you have to choose. And your choice will depend on your disposition, priorities, taste and needs. That's why I think renting the cameras for a few jobs before you decide could help you put all the various elements in perspective for <em>you</em>.
Does the Amira have an EF mount for your current glass?
I'll say this...which may sound crazy. But I had a chance to pick up a F65 for very cheap a while back. Most people told me that it was a dumb move. "Too heavy". "Won't help get clients". "Power and data hungry". "Needs a whole crew". They weren't necessarily wrong. It is all of those things. And no client, director or producer asks for it...so in itself it is not getting me new work. But with all that said, I paid it off within a few months, doing ULB indy drama and commercial work, it has allowed me to create images that compete at a higher level, and I often operate it OMB as crazy as that may sound. Sure, it's very heavy. About the weight of a fully rigged Alexa. But I'm actually a pretty strong person so that happens to be ok for me. I pick it up with one hand, swing it on my shoulder no problem. I just did it for 20hrs last week (not handheld the whole time). Sounds crazy, right? The overtime was serious! 3x 240whr batteries (with fast charger) and 1.5TB of cards allows me to shoot RAW 6:1 compression ratio no problem, and even 3:1 if need be. But it does mean wrangling more data at the end of the day...which someone has to do. I still kept my FS700/O7Q for my gimbal steadicam work, which when shooting RAW cuts well with the F65. Again, this is in the ULB indy drama world, where Producers and Directors are happy to pay me for my equipment if it'll look like my previous work and will be a 3rd of the rental rate of an Alexa Mini. After all, it's paid in full for me so it's all profit at this point.
I'm saying all of that simply to say that the scenario that is currently working for me may sound like a nightmare scenario for some folks. And that's cool. But you know what, it actually is working well for me and is helping me elevate in skill and work opportunities.
So it's always good to hear what other people think, but experience will determine what YOU need. Also, no matter what you choose, it is largely your ambition and drive that will determine whether you'll thrive, regardless of what gear decision you make.
I think testing is key. Maybe rent an Amira for an upcoming job. Then rent a Varicam LT for another job, then a Red, etc...this way you can feel what it's like to actually work a real job from a wholistic perspective (image/ergonomics/power/data/post).
The FS7 is indeed a great camera. And even if you get a new camera, perhaps you still keep the FS7...for your gimbal needs.
An Amira will give you better images for the most part...and this may help you make better work, which may help you level-up in the industry. It is also true that better crew and lighting and post will also help you make better work...which will also help you level up. Ultimately you want both. But if you can only afford one, then you have to choose. And your choice will depend on your disposition, priorities, taste and needs. That's why I think renting the cameras for a few jobs before you decide could help you put all the various elements in perspective for <em>you</em>.
Does the Amira have an EF mount for your current glass?
I'll say this...which may sound crazy. But I had a chance to pick up a F65 for very cheap a while back. Most people told me that it was a dumb move. "Too heavy". "Won't help get clients". "Power and data hungry". "Needs a whole crew". They weren't necessarily wrong. It is all of those things. And no client, director or producer asks for it...so in itself it is not getting me new work. But with all that said, I paid it off within a few months, doing ULB indy drama and commercial work, it has allowed me to create images that compete at a higher level, and I often operate it OMB as crazy as that may sound. Sure, it's very heavy. About the weight of a fully rigged Alexa. But I'm actually a pretty strong person so that happens to be ok for me. I pick it up with one hand, swing it on my shoulder no problem. I just did it for 20hrs last week (not handheld the whole time). Sounds crazy, right? The overtime was serious! 3x 240whr batteries (with fast charger) and 1.5TB of cards allows me to shoot RAW 6:1 compression ratio no problem, and even 3:1 if need be. But it does mean wrangling more data at the end of the day...which someone has to do. I still kept my FS700/O7Q for my gimbal steadicam work, which when shooting RAW cuts well with the F65. Again, this is in the ULB indy drama world, where Producers and Directors are happy to pay me for my equipment if it'll look like my previous work and will be a 3rd of the rental rate of an Alexa Mini. After all, it's paid in full for me so it's all profit at this point.
I'm saying all of that simply to say that the scenario that is currently working for me may sound like a nightmare scenario for some folks. And that's cool. But you know what, it actually is working well for me and is helping me elevate in skill and work opportunities.
So it's always good to hear what other people think, but experience will determine what YOU need. Also, no matter what you choose, it is largely your ambition and drive that will determine whether you'll thrive, regardless of what gear decision you make.
What gimbal are you using for your FS700 may I ask?