FS7: What Is To Be Gained?

[Alpha Beta Omega]

There are really good cameras than beats an FS7 but take into account the added weight and increased power consumption. I know I wouldn't wanna go in that direction but that's me and others may be fine with adding V-locks, more and larger cases and to have a camera doing double duty as a dumb bell.

 

[Sttratos]

I'm going to voice a contrary opinion to most here. From what you describe Jeremey, I think the Amira sounds like the ideal candidate.

It's a fantastic camera to work with. Terrific ergonomics, all of the features you need for small crew productions, light enough to wield easily even if you are shooting solo, and those fabulous Arri highlights that are still just so much harder to clip than anything else out there (which lets you get away with less light and less grip than any other camera).

The vast majority of clients who ask for 4k are totally fine with Arri's '4k' (in fact I've had 'Arri 4k' requested specifically, multiple times recently), so that's a non-issue for most things.

For someone wanting to up the quality on direct to client productions, I think it's a great option. And unlike most other cameras out there, it has zero compromises at any frame rate from 1-200fps.

Budget allowing the Amira is indeed a great suggestion. Same great image as the Alexa but more practical as one man camera. Price will be around 3x or more than used Alexas. But if the features are worth it for you, you can't go wrong with the image.

 

[JPNola]

This discussion has somewhat come full circle back to his statement in the OP of " I am very close to pulling the trigger on an ARRI Amira".

I'm switching my vote. If price is no object, go for the Alexa Mini. You expressed interest in doing gimbal work. That's the Mini and not an Amira or full-size Alexa.

Just be ready to go down a rabbit hole of accessories and proprietary gack.

 

[starcentral]

If you're open to owning 2 cameras, then keep the FS7 and definitely consider the Amira or even a RED camera. I know Gene who posts here on occasion has done just that (own's FS7 and a RED).

Now you say you don't really think an Amira would bring in new clients etc., but you never know what owning an ARRI or RED might bring as there are definitely circles out there that exist where only ARRI is a consideration for the work. Who knows, you might end up getting yourself into that as a result.

I know the 4K argument comes up a lot but agree with Mark it shouldn't really be a show stopper. Then there is going excessive overboard like 8K which I definitely don't think is practical.

Go for two cams, best solution.. !!!

 

[digitalinnovations]

Hello all!

Sorry, I had a shoot this morning so I’m playing catch-up with the posts. There’s been a bunch of great information shared and I appreciate everyone taking the time!

If price is no object, go for the Alexa Mini. You expressed interest in doing gimbal work.

First, I feel compelled to clarify: price is most certainly an object! I would love nothing more than to be able to kit out an Ursa Mini Pro and get the same results but what I am trying to avoid is buying a camera every year or two and purchase something that would last me the next, say, 4-5 years. Of course that can always change but I think it’s good to have a business plan in place / goals / limiataions otherwise we’d all be living out of our production trailers packed with gear and eating ramen.

The other thing is, while I have and do shoot occasional gimbal work, that was not one of my “must haves” for the new, “mystery camera”. If it worked out as such GREAT! But with 1/2 of the cameras we’ve been discussing that is not really an option - or at least easily attainable without dropping a ton on a higher capacity gimbal or, as you said, all the bits and bobs it takes to kit out an Alexa Mini to the practicality of an Amira.

…Now you say you don't really think an Amira would bring in new clients etc., but you never know what owning an ARRI or RED might bring as there are definitely circles out there that exist where only ARRI is a consideration for the work. Who knows, you might end up getting yourself into that as a result.

I know the 4K argument comes up a lot but agree with Mark it shouldn't really be a show stopper. Then there is going excessive overboard like 8K which I definitely don't think is practical. Go for two cams, best solution!!!

It wasn’t so much that I thought having an Amira wouldn’t bring in new clients (that is actually exactly my hope) but it would not, in and of itself, allow me to raise rates on my existing clients who have established a “typical” budget…if that makes sense? I do believe I will be able to gradually increase those existing budgets but just not all at once.

…I know the 4K argument comes up a lot but agree with Mark it shouldn't really be a show stopper. Then there is going excessive overboard like 8K which I definitely don't think is practical. Go for two cams, best solution!!!

I really don’t foresee me having an issue with any of my clients over the "pseudo-4K" that ARRI uses. Exactly zero clients have requested any form of 4K (in acquisition or delivery) in the how-many-ever years I’ve been shooting 4K and all my deliverables for broadcast or online are 1080p. As for 8K and the rest of that…yeah, I don’t see that happening for a very, very long time and all of us will be debating about the best smell-o-vision sensor by then.

 

[Sttratos]

Just rent all the cameras you are considering and do a personal shootout. Best and probably only way to know for sure what will appeal to you. Doing that helped me a lot.

 

[LennyLevy]

I think this is no brainer that you are unduly agonizing over. If I could afford an Amira I would purchase in an instant. You may not be able to charge existing clients more, but if you want to jump to a higher standard of work, sadly these days owning the right gear seems far more important than having the superior skills. That fact is born out to me daily in my conversations with other techs.

 

[Sttratos]

I think this is no brainer that you are unduly agonizing over. If I could afford an Amira I would purchase in an instant.

Good point. I think this actually applies to probably 90% of shooters. Unless they have a very specific need, most people would buy an Arri if they could afford one. So if you can afford one OP, you can't really go wrong.

 

[morgan_moore]

Good point. I think this actually applies to probably 90% of shooters. Unless they have a very specific need, most people would buy an Arri if they could afford one. So if you can afford one OP, you can't really go wrong.

I love the Amera, its simplicity, solid HFR, sensible menu, (I have gripped it - not DOP).

But having shouldered it (to me) clearly Solo Opping in the field with it and a days worth of batteries is out, also any gimbals or man portable sliders are out too.

To me it really is a 'crew camera' which is wonderful.. if you have a crew.

Without a crew you absolutely can go wrong.

 

[Sttratos]

I love the Amera, its simplicity, solid HFR, sensible menu, (I have gripped it - not DOP).

But having shouldered it (to me) clearly Solo Opping in the field with it and a days worth of batteries is out, also any gimbals or man portable sliders are out too.

To me it really is a 'crew camera' which is wonderful.. if you have a crew.

Without a crew you absolutely can go wrong.

Actually the Alexa is the crew camera. The Amira is really no different than a Betacam or Digibeta. It was designed to be a solo camera. I guess people have gotten too used with small DSLRs that they forget what a full sized pro camera is like. By the way I shoulder my Alexa all time. No problem.

Besides I didn't say Amira specifically. I said most people would buy an Arri if they could afford one. There is also the Alexa Mini if size is the most important for you instead of ergonomics.

 

[Run&Gun]

Actually the Alexa is the crew camera. The Amira is really no different than a Betacam or Digibeta. It was designed to be a solo camera. I guess people have gotten too used with small DSLRs that they forget what a full sized pro camera is like. By the way I shoulder my Alexa all time. No problem.

Besides I didn't say Amira specifically. I said most people would buy an Arri if they could afford one. There is also the Alexa Mini if size is the most important for you instead of ergonomics.

+1

My favorite camera to actually USE is still my full size, P2 VariCam. With w/a lens, battery, etc. I'm easily at 25lbs+. But I can sling it around much easier and be more nimble with it than I can my C300 or F55.

 

[DLD]

... I really don’t foresee me having an issue with any of my clients over the "pseudo-4K" that ARRI uses. Exactly zero clients have requested any form of 4K (in acquisition or delivery) in the how-many-ever years I’ve been shooting 4K and all my deliverables for broadcast or online are 1080p. As for 8K and the rest of that…yeah, I don’t see that happening for a very, very long time and all of us will be debating about the best smell-o-vision sensor by then.

With the ARRI Alef sensor already being six-seven years old, its replacement should be coming in shortly (in the Sony Venice mode). It is likely to have higher (11-17 MPX) resolution but it should also have other (low light, "real" 4K 200 fps?) improvements. If so, it will really knock down the market value of the used Amiras and the entire Alexa line, despite its continuous improvements and upgrades.

My personal opinion is that Panasonic has a better look but that ARRI has a more established rep in the business. Varicam LT is, of course, much more affordable and far superior in low light with its 5000 ISO feature. The Varicams are also gaining in rep, as they're being used on a number of TV shows.

 

[morgan_moore]

Actually the Alexa is the crew camera. The Amira is really no different than a Betacam or Digibeta. It was designed to be a solo camera. I guess people have gotten too used with small DSLRs that they forget what a full sized pro camera is like. By the way I shoulder my Alexa all time. No problem.

But the Digibeta era is over.. back then parking on sticks and settling back with your 4.5X20 zoom was acceptable. Today moving the camera is the norm.. sliders whatever.. your director probably has a slider for her Iphone.

I love shouldering a big camera for short takes, too. Lugging one around all day less so.

Overall I was wanting to be clear that I am a fan of the arri simplicity and image.. Im not knocking the camera per se.. just questioning the validity of a solo shooter purchasing one.

Every bigger job Ive been on the kit was rental anyway, and maybe the director wants red vari or alexa so.. buying I dont know.

 

[markfpv]

OP - Sam has some very valid points. And while I often entertain the thought that if I jump out and buy an Amira / Alexa - I'll suddenly have a whole bus load of large budget projects waiting on my doorstep, reality has taught me this is wishful thinking. Make sure you know your existing client base and what's most important for them.
For me, and I would bet, for the majority of us, adding extra G&L , art direction & time (i.e. budgets) would make for better IQ...

 

[digitalinnovations]

All of you are giving me some serious food for thought. The size / weight of the camera isn't too big of an issue for the vast majority of the time for me and I, too, come from the old Beta / P2 ENG cams.

OP - Sam has some very valid points. And while I often entertain the thought that if I jump out and buy an Amira / Alexa - I'll suddenly have a whole bus load of large budget projects waiting on my doorstep, reality has taught me this is wishful thinking. Make sure you know your existing client base and what's most important for them. For me, and I would bet, for the majority of us, adding extra G&L , art direction & time (i.e. budgets) would make for better IQ...

I cannot disagree with you, Mark. Time is typically the one thing sorely lacking (along with getting the client to appreciate the value of pre-production) and I don't know how quickly I can get that to change but hopefully it will.

...My personal opinion is that Panasonic has a better look but that ARRI has a more established rep in the business. Varicam LT is, of course, much more affordable and far superior in low light with its 5000 ISO feature. The Varicams are also gaining in rep, as they're being used on a number of TV shows.

The Varicam LT is the quite the quandary for me; having shot Panasonic ENGs for many years I always liked the color/look. But when it comes to the Varicam LT specifically, the price point makes it need to really shine / surpass the other offerings at 1/2 it's price.

Renting is difficult due to my location in country and the high (for me at least) rates to rent multiple cameras for testing. Mitch Gross had mentioned being able to demo a Varicam LT so I've reached out to him but haven't heard back yet but that may help in doing a comparison.

 

[allenfacemire]

I think that's the question FS7 owners ask themselves. Where to we go from the FS7?

It's far from perfect but works so great in most situations and it's often difficult to charge more just because a more expensive camera is used. Amira would be nice to get that image quality but it's larger, heavier, power hungry and cost way more and unless you really can up your daily rate I'd stick with the FS7.

That is a dilemma. The Amira is as good a camera as one can get...overall. But as was already mentioned, going to be tough to add enough to the rental tag to make it worth it. If you were doing features and the like, then you have a shot at getting the machine on or at least on a splinter unit. Long term rental is key IMO.
But as story tellers, we are also in this game for the cake and you may not get that boy amortized in as short a time as you would with a cheaper machine.
But...the Amira is ripe for rental sooo...
With that in mind, here in Atlanta Arri has opened a shop and keep Alexa's out for months at a time. There's that secondary rental market but as a Op/Owner...tough nut to crack for either of the Arri lines.

 

[Run&Gun]

Renting is difficult due to my location in country and the high (for me at least) rates to rent multiple cameras for testing. Mitch Gross had mentioned being able to demo a Varicam LT so I've reached out to him but haven't heard back yet but that may help in doing a comparison.

Do you have a regular dealer that you buy from, like an Abel Cine, etc.? If so, they should be able to provide demo units to you, no problem. You'll probably just have to cover the shipping. Mine actually wanted me to take an LT out for a spin. I wasn't in the market, but they wanted my feedback on it. Unfortunately I was never able to use it on a real shoot while I had it. The one time I could have actually used it "for real", I couldn't, because the camera is incapable of playing back clips seamlessly. It will only play back the selected clip, then stop. Not stop and then start playing back the next clip, just stop, period. Major shortcoming and I don't know why. Seems like an easy enough fix in firmware, and I was told a lot of people have been asking for it. Even on cameras like this, it's a necessity to be able to play back clips seamlessly. I will be shooting sit-down interviews tomorrow with my F55 and then feeding them back from the camera to the network via "cell backpack". That would be an infuriating time waste with a camera that you would have to babysit and futz with, because you had to do each clip manually. Sorry for the sidetrack rant...

 

[Alpha Beta Omega]

Clients ask for Arri, clients ask for RED, clients asks for FS7. If they don't ask for a camera, don't buy it.

 

[digitalinnovations]

... Sorry for the sidetrack rant...

Not at all! Those are great things to know and look for. Sometimes the little operational quirks can make a BIG difference in the day-to-day work.

 

[morgan_moore]

Clients ask for Arri, clients ask for RED, clients asks for FS7. If they don't ask for a camera, don't buy it.

Some clients just ask for "a film" and you deliver it to "your" standard and get booked, rebooked whatever. They may have no technical clue whatsoever.

Others yep spec they the job out.