What can 10k buy me?

J

Joe P

New member
I have a limited background in filmmaking. It's mainly a hobby that's led to a wedding video, a documentary and a few other projects all shot with a Canon HF S10 camcorder, a tripod and a wireless mic set.

My company wants to do some internal videos and has agreed to give me a $10,000 budget to buy video equipment and shoot a few projects. I'm looking to buy a starter kid that will allow me to shoot a range of different things, ie interviews, events, conference previews, etc...I am pretty new at this but seem to have a slight idea of what I think I'll need.

So -- here is my list. Any suggestions or essentials I am missing?

Canon 5D Mark II
Sennheiser EW 112-p G3 wireless mic system w/ ME2 Lavalier mic
Rode shotgun mic
Zoom H4N recorder
32 GB Extreme Compact Flash Sandisk (2)
The Glidetrack Shooter package http://www.glidetrack.com/bundles/shooter-sd-accessories.html
Final Cut Pro
(We have a Mac Pro in our office already)

Thanks,
Joe
 
I don't see any reason to go with the 5D, when you could buy a t2i, 60D, or 7D and get the same quality video for a lot less money.

I don't see any lenses on there.

If you are going to be using this to shoot live events, a DSLR may not be the best choice. An HMC150 will likely be a better option. A DSLR really requires a much higher level of proficiency for live events, and if you go with this setup, you will be the only person able to operate it. With a real camcorder, you could have someone else operate it with the auto settings and get good quality results. If you hand a 5D to someone to record some video, and they don't have a lot of experience, the footage will likely be useless. Also the audio recording on the DSLR's is close to useless as well, while on a real video camera the audio is actually pretty good, which means you don't have to get the H4N, and you don't have to worry about syncing in post.

So, my list for what you are talking about would be:

HMC150 (or something similar) with batteries, memory cards, etc.
Wireless mic
Shotgun mic
Very nice tripod
Video Editing software

Use whatever is left of the budget to improve on your audio, or get some lighting for the interviews.

If you are really set on a DSLR, get a T2I with the Tamron 17-55 2.8 lens in addition to the above list, so you have some options.
 
I'm assuming you're interested in the 5d for the larger sensor. If so, the other canons listed won't give you the 'same' quality, though they are good choices.

For what it's worth, take a look at the EX1. A surprisingly capable little camera.
 
pretty much the ONLY reasons to go with a DSLR over a proper video camera are:

- if your life will be DRAMATICALLY improved by having the ability to shoot video and stills with the same camera
- if the majority of your projects live or die based on DOF

if neither of these is the case. get a proper video camera. as there are a LOT of day to day things that a DSLR SUCKS at (simple high-quality audio, standard pro-audio workflow, remote lens control, easy auto focus, stability/fatigue, etc)

if for some reason you feel you MUST go DSLR as opposed to a video cam, id look into the panasonic gh2. its a good bit cheaper. and you'll avoid a number of the PITA canon issues. i was going to go with a canon originally, but for me, each of their cameras required a different, deal-breaking compromise.

did you work a tripod / monopod into your budget? cant use a DSLR (or any camera really) effectively without one or both...
have you considered lights? lighting has as much or more to do with final quality as camera choice does...
 
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wgzn said:
have you considered lights? lighting has as much or more to do with final quality as camera choice does...
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Lighting will affect image quality far more than what camera you chose. A good camera can look horrible with bad lighting, whereas a bad camera can look good with nice lighting.
 
wgzn said:
pretty much the ONLY reasons to go with a DSLR over a proper video camera are:

- if your life will be DRAMATICALLY improved by having the ability to shoot video and stills with the same camera
- if the majority of your projects live or die based on DOF

if neither of these is the case. get a proper video camera. as there are a LOT of day to day things that a DSLR SUCKS at (simple high-quality audio, standard pro-audio workflow, remote lens control, easy auto focus, stability/fatigue, etc)

if for some reason you feel you MUST go DSLR as opposed to a video cam, id look into the panasonic gh2. its a good bit cheaper. and you'll avoid a number of the PITA canon issues. i was going to go with a canon originally, but for me, each of their cameras required a different, deal-breaking compromise.

did you work a tripod / monopod into your budget? cant use a DSLR (or any camera really) effectively without one or both...
have you considered lights? lighting has as much or more to do with final quality as camera choice does...
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You seem to have forgotten two important points though.

1st: Lenses.

The variety of high quality inexpensive lenses available to a DSLR user is vast. There are far more savings and creative opportunities here than with the cameras themselves.
The capacity to own your own lenses is invaluable, and at a fraction of the cost of cinema lenses is nothing to sneeze at.

2nd: multi-cam

The opportunity to shoot multiple angles and/or have backup cameras for a variety of needs greatly expands the working methodology of the average videographer.
This way of working is far more commonplace than before and for many including myself it has been a great breadwinner and a chance to have much more coverage and dynamic edits.
 
yoclay said:
You seem to have forgotten two important points though.

1st: Lenses.

The variety of high quality inexpensive lenses available to a DSLR user is vast. There are far more savings and creative opportunities here than with the cameras themselves.
The capacity to own your own lenses is invaluable, and at a fraction of the cost of cinema lenses is nothing to sneeze at.

2nd: multi-cam

The opportunity to shoot multiple angles and/or have backup cameras for a variety of needs greatly expands the working methodology of the average videographer.
This way of working is far more commonplace than before and for many including myself it has been a great breadwinner and a chance to have much more coverage and dynamic edits.
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Well, the original poster mentioned that this was for internal video's for his company, which (in my mind) would all work fine with the built in zoom lens on any modern video camera. Also, since the 5d was the camera listed, it doesn't matter how cheap the lens cost is, since the 5D body is already in the same price range as a decent video camera.

If the question was about spending $10,000 on equipment to make a short creative film, or a music video, the answers would be much different, but for corporate or on the fly video's, DSLR's are significantly harder to use than a good traditional video camera.
 
Cosimo Bullo said:
I'm assuming you're interested in the 5d for the larger sensor. If so, the other canons listed won't give you the 'same' quality, though they are good choices.

For what it's worth, take a look at the EX1. A surprisingly capable little camera.
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I don't know if the original poster mentioned the 5D specifically because of the sensor size, or because that was what most professionals seem to be using for video. Many people don't realize that the 7D, 60D, and t2i all look pretty much identical to each other, and aside from the difference in depth of field due to the sensor size difference, look almost identical to the 5D.

When I said the t2i had the same quality as the 5D, I should have been more specific. While the crop cameras will require different focal lenght lenses to get the same field of view as the 5D (and therefor have a different depth of field), the subjective quality of how good the image is will not be different. Unlike the difference between the lower and upper level video cameras (where the cheaper ones look worse than the more expensive ones), the difference between the 5D and the t2I when it comes to video is not a case of better or worse, but instead they just have a different look (because you have to use different lenses to get the same field of view). The 5D will have a shallower area that is in focus given that all of the settings are the same.
 
First - I am inclined to choose a DSLR because I am also a still photographer and I like the idea of the 2 in 1. I gravitated toward the 5D because everything I've read or heard suggests it's simply the best DSLR camera for video because of it's large sensor and ability to shoot well in low light. I know it's not great for audio but I don't foresee any issues using the zoom for backup. I've been practicing digital photography for quite some time and I'm confident I'll be able to learn the ins and outs of the 5D and get the best out of it.

I haven't decided on lenses yet. Was thinking I'd start with a 24-105 mm and go from there.

And lighting - I'd assume a basic 3 point set for interviews should be sufficient?

Thanks for the replies -- this is helpful.
 
Joe, after reading all that you have said I think a Canon 5D would be a fantastic option for you. Yes, the other Canon DSLR cameras are cheaper and shoot at the same resolution as the 5D does...but as you said the 5D performs better in low light and you're a still photographer as well (shallow DOF is a must for still photography).

Just make sure to get a lens with image stabilization. The biggest weakness of these wonderful DSLR cameras is their rolling shutter (or jello effect). Also, if you're going to be doing any kind of event videography for your company, I would suggest getting a monopod with a fluid head.

I'm not a fan or wireless mics (I have had problems with popping in the past). If it were me, I would go with a cheaper alternative recorder than the H4N (Olympus) and just plug a lav mic directly into it. As for the shotgun mic, I have found Rode mics to be low quality. I would suggest the Sennheiser MKE 400 mic. It's a little more expensive than the Rode mic, but it is compact and delivers better audio (not that you would use the audio from a DSLR anyway, but in bad situations it might help you line things up a little faster in post).

That's all I can think of at this very late hour. Best of luck buying equipment and with your shoots!
 
A 60D with Canon 17-40 L and Ducati 696.

The Ducati looks good, but that's how fast your money will be gone.

In all honesty I would be cautious how you part with your 10k. There are many choices and many here who think there is only ONE choice, theirs.

After a year working with a DSLR every day I'm not kidding when I say start with something low cost like a 60D, and one decent lens. Work with that for a while before adding on the next piece of equipment. It will take you a while to figure out what best suits your kind of shoots and shooting style.

If you have an account to draw from then it makes sense to invest in good L 2.8 or faster glass. I would start with a 60D and a 16-35mm f2.8 L. That will cover a good part of your wide range. That will leave you 80% of your budget to carefully add on what you need as you need it. If you change your mind you can recover most of that investment within 6 months. Much harder to recover 10K.

You will probably need audio and a good mic and recorder will cost you $1,000 to $2,000 so you will need to make educated decisions. Go take a beating in the dvxuser audio section and you will learn fast what's good and what's a mistake. Those guys know what they are talking about.

2 other great lenses are the 24-70mm f2.8 L and the 70-200 f2.8 L. I'm a prime lens user, but for pressure shooting I've come to realize the 16-35 2.8 / 24-70 2.8 / 70-200 2.8 would make an excellent sharp fast collection in 3 lenses.

But...you may want to go the other direction and get an AF100 which is a great prospect for many, or start with a GH2 and see how that works out.

10 grand will buy a lot of great gear, but can also buy as much disappointment. You may even be sorry you didn't get the Ducati.
Just take your time and don't blow the whole wad before you are sure.
 

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ROCKMORE said:
A 60D with Canon 17-40 L and Ducati 696.
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+1!!!
(and I don't even like motorbikes...)

on the wireless thing: I'd also try to avoid them, in fact I plug my lav directly to a very easily wearable H1

on the lenses thing: this one is tricky... the 24-70 is faster and sharper than the 24-105, but it will cost you more $$$ and doesn't have IS; the 17-40L is nice, and on a 5D it will cover the siper-wide end; if I needed the agility of a zoom but could change lenses from time to time, I think I might go for that one, plus a 50 f/1.4 and a 70-200; given that I have the time to go around changing lenses as needed, for full frame and with a nice budget I'd just get the 17-40 and a bunch of vintage leitz lenses (elmarit 35mm f/2.8, summicron 50mm f/2, elmarit 90mm f/2.8, elmarit 135mm f/2.8, elmarit 180mm f/2.8, all for leica-R mount, whole bunch for around $1500)
 
joe. have you done much investigating into canons moire and aliasing issues. apparently its not an issue when shooting stills, but is quite prevalent in the video.
thats the big thing that soured me on a 5D/7D.

here are links to some of the videos that helped me make my decision:

http://vimeo.com/6549968

http://vimeo.com/7214842

http://www.vimeo.com/groups/22252/videos/9827334

im not trying to talk you out of anything. but ive been back and forth myself on the decision on a DSLR myself for some time. and i keep finding reasons that one or the next isnt suited for what i need.
 
What can 10k buy me?
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A much better tool for the job then a DSLR.

Seriously, everything you listed would benefit much much better from a proper video camera. Canon, Panasonic, and Sony all have camcorders that would accomplish your goals. Would a DSLR work? Sure. Just as I can walk out my front door, around the block and back in through the rear door to get to my fridge. Or I could just do the sensible thing and walk though the kitchen.
 
Would a DSLR work? Sure. Just as I can walk out my front door, around the block and back in through the rear door to get to my fridge. Or I could just do the sensible thing and walk though the kitchen.
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best quote of the year!
- but its only february ; )
 
You're talking about corporate videos here. I agree with others that the DSLR rout may not be the best for your needs. What it boils down to here is a combination of "bang for the buck" and "meets your production needs".

I do not agree that RODE mics are bad, or that wireless should be avoided. RODE NTG-2 and NTG-3 shotguns are good mics. Yeah, nothing matches/beats a Schoeps, but RODE performs well and is priced right. Wireless is very useful, though hard-wired is much more reliable, and the decision to go wireless is really dictated both by the availability of a dedicated sound person (or boom op) and by the need for movement on-camera. Wired lavs are perfect if the talent doesn't need to walk and talk.

You might want to look at something like the Panasonic AG-HMC40 with XLR adapter (about $2200). That leaves you plenty of room for other needs, and alleviates the need for an external recorder.

Get a good tripod with fluid head (at least $800).

Get a basic lighting kit, perhaps something from Lowell that will cover talking heads and some medium-frame demonstrations (Lowell DV Creator 55, about $1550).

Get a basic sound kit ($850-2100)
- Wired lav (Sanken COS-11DBP, $450; or Countryman B3, $200)
- Good Headphones (Sony MDR-7506, $100)
- A couple extra XLR cables ($50)
- Optional: A wireless kit, if you think you need it (Sennheiser G3, $600, but you'll want to upgrade that lav to something like the Countryman B3, another $200))
- Shotgun kit with pole and shockmount/windscreening (RODE NTG-3 kit, $900; or NTG-2 kit, $500)
or
- A hypercardioid condenser, like the Audio Technica 4053b, which is a better boom mic for interiors ($600), but be sure to get shockmount, windscreen, and pole.

The choice between shotgun and hypercardioid really boils down to where you'll spend most of the time shooting. A shotgun is, generally, terrible indoors. If you'll be in an office building, shooting in offices, cubicles, and conference rooms, get the hypercardioid.

And even with all of this you've still got room left for software, and maybe even a slick iMac. Or more sound or lighting gear. Or the Glidetrack (however, the tripod is much more versatile and should be used the majority of the time). This is all, of course, my personal perspective.

One other very important consideration before you decide that you absolutely have to go with a DSLR: you'll have to work around issues with file size limit and overheating. With a 5DmkII, as with any Canon DSLR, you cannot shoot more than 12 minutes of HD footage at a time due to the 2GB file size limit. Plus, these cameras tend to overheat, which can damage footage or cause the camera to shut down. If you're wanting flexibility in order to do event coverage, you really need something that avoids both those issues.

In interest of full disclosure, I shoot with a T2i and have a DVX. I love shooting with the T2i (commercials, promotional pieces... all controlled and with short takes), but when it comes to long-form production like conferences and events, the DVX comes back out to play. Even though it isn't HD, it still outperforms the T2i in those situations (and those projects end up going to DVD anyway, so HD isn't a big deal).
 
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If you like photography too, than you can always buy a regular video camera and set aside around $1000 of your budget to get a t2i as well, to act as a B-cam when you want and to take photo's.

If you are set on the DSLR, than considering you do photography, the 5D would be a great choice. I just don't think a DSLR is a great choice for what you are doing.
 
I just don't think a DSLR is a great choice for what you are doing.
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i wouldnt recommend a DSLR to nearly ANYONE as their ONLY video camera. it would be like having a ball-peen hammer as the only hammer in your tool box.
one day, youre gonna need to pull out a nail. then what'll you do?
 
Ill play my tired old tape. batteries cards batteries cards, DSLR? - get a spare, wires, spare wires, sound and mics, proper tripod (satchler miller vinten)

$10k can dissapear befroe you get any Bling kit

af100 and Gh1/2 is good combo lenswise

S
 
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