What camera to buy? (Non-DSLR)

D

DDirector

Veteran
I currently own and shoot on the Canon T2i DSLR but I am looking into buying a video camera for filmmaking purposes.

The T2i is great, but with the limited amount of recording minutes and constant buffering issues even with the fastest sdhc cards, I still have issues at times.

I have not looked into video cameras for about 3 years, so I don't know what's the best out there. I'm looking for something that is FF or even a crap like the dslr is fine.
But something that has a lot of useful features, very good quality, great dof, etc. Pretty much like the dslr but in a video camera.

I have looked into the C100, it is $6K which would be at the most I'd want to spend. I will try used most likely.
Would anyone have any suggestions on a good video camera?
 
Sony EA50 $3599 (B and H) Here is a review linked:
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...EqdgyCde2qU-_kNFQ&sig2=Otdeig9tedNJQQjeHZQv9A
Sony FS100 $4199 (B and H)
Panasonic AF100 $4299 (Texas Media Systems)

Those are the 3 large sensor video cams you can get new for well under $6000. The Panasonic will soon move to the AF100A model...no price as of yet.

A dark horse - The BMC cinema camera for $3,000 - Very back ordered right now....and a bit like the DLSRs form factor wise (ONLY in that the body has very few of the standard video cam controls on it)
 
Definitely an FS100 or an AF100. They are both great cameras and are right in your price range. I have the AF100 and I would highly recommend it. The F3 would be great but they are still going for close to $10K used. Perhaps with the roll out of the F5 and F55 they will come down more but it's still going to be twice the price.
 
I like the F3 its a great camera, but even used, they are coming out to be about $8-10K. :shocked:
Im looking at reviews of all three AF100, F3, FS100
 
DDirector said:
I like the F3 its a great camera, but even used, they are coming out to be about $8-10K. :shocked:
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Yeah, I don't understand why people keep suggesting used F3's for the $5-6k price range. Helllllllllllllo, they're not that cheap, well, once you eliminate the scam eBay listings at least.
 
thehadgi said:
BMCC? Can you deal with the crop and post?
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Just because you have the BMCC doesn't mean you HAVE to shoot RAW all the time. The Prores it outputs is pretty dang good.

That being said, for full feature cameras, the C100 would be my bet hands down if you're willing to drop the cash on it.
 
bertzie said:
Just because you have the BMCC doesn't mean you HAVE to shoot RAW all the time. The Prores it outputs is pretty dang good.

That being said, for full feature cameras, the C100 would be my bet hands down if you're willing to drop the cash on it.
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The Prores of the BMC outputs a damn high Bitrate (i read it is roughly 150mbps) if you compare it to a T2i - you would have to look for a good storage solution and maybe a rig which are additional costs...

I'd say C100 for the nice form factor (except the display on the back) - I'd say the FS100 is maybe the best bang for the buck right now.
 
Gary Huff said:
Yeah, I don't understand why people keep suggesting used F3's for the $5-6k price range. Helllllllllllllo, they're not that cheap, well, once you eliminate the scam eBay listings at least.
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There's a massive difference between AF/FS100 and F3. Second hand prices offer exceptional value. For a broadcast spec camera, I'd say it's worth saving an extra couple of grand.
 
Liam Hall said:
Second hand prices offer exceptional value. For a broadcast spec camera, I'd say it's worth saving an extra couple of grand.
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It's not an extra couple of grand from a used AF100/FS100 to an F3 though. That's my point. More like $3-4k more. Plus, the F3 is no more "broadcast spec" (a term which is mostly just FUD these days) than those two. In fact, I'd take AVCHD over XDCam EX any day.
 
Owning an FS100 I would consider it as a budget option (used) but would certainly be looking to stretch to onboard ND if I had the budget.

That would be a C100 or a used F3 - of those id probably pick the F3

I dont know why, but I would - probably more grown up connectivity and the like.

Of course the (mft) BMC is there (actually where is it) too but its a bit of a different beast more aligned to drama and needing IMO some specialised glass

A used Fs100 is probably best bang for the buck but ND should not be under rated.

S
 
DDirector said:
The T2i is great, but with the limited amount of recording minutes and constant buffering issues even with the fastest sdhc cards, I still have issues at times.
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This is not to be construed in any way to indicate you shouldn't be looking for a good video cam for your purposes.

But when you do use the T2i you should NOT be encountering "buffering issues" with fast SDHC cards UNLESS YOU ARE TRYING TO GET BY WITH "BARGAIN" BRAND MEDIA.

Sandisk and Hoodman RAW are the leaders as far as reliability is concerned. SanDisk is the most "counterfeited" brand of media and that should tell you something. Transcend is perhaps the best of the "bargain" brands and a lot of people use those, but I've seen just enough problem reports on them that I flat will not risk it.

The T2i can get along just fine using 30MB/s SanDisk Extreme (looks like those are soon to be discontinued) but right now B&H has some very attractive prices on the SanDisk Extreme 45MB/s SDHC cards. I used those in a T3i and 60D and now use them in Panasonic GH2's with the Flowmotion 2.02 firmware patch.

If you're using SanDisk and still get buffering problems, you may have "counterfeit" media. Anything you order from ebay has a good chance of being counterfeit SanDisk, and amazon.com is beginning to "dance with the Devil" as some of their vendors are now selling questionable media.

I've been trying to follow these media issues since 2008.

Buy from B&H.
 
DDirector said:
The T2i is great, but with the limited amount of recording minutes and constant buffering issues even with the fastest sdhc cards, I still have issues at times.
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I happen to own a T2i and have never had a problem with it. All of my cards are class 10 and I have never had any buffering issues. Also what type of "filmmaking" are you doing where your single takes are longer than 12min? I could see this as an issue if you are doing event work, but for narrative filmmaking the time limits should be a non-issue.
 
David W. Jones said:
I happen to own a T2i and have never had a problem with it. All of my cards are class 10 and I have never had any buffering issues. Also what type of "filmmaking" are you doing where your single takes are longer than 12min? I could see this as an issue if you are doing event work, but for narrative filmmaking the time limits should be a non-issue.
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I have both the SanDisk Extreme and a Transcend at class 10, with the fastest mb/s I could afford. The Transcend being much faster.
Don't believe I had a problem with Transcend as much as the SanDisk. Both of which I got from Henry's.

I usually don't have problems until my card starts to get filled up. When the media is half way or more, it starts to show signs of buffering. with a 16gb card, I tend not to go over 8gb without having to dump footage to prevent buffering.
I have Magic Lantern and usually have things on because I need them on. And try to turn off as much as possible.
I have been asked to shoot at times longer than 8-12 minutes, such as interviews and doing doc work.
Its either I max out to 12 minutes or the card begins to buffer. This is the main reason why I'd like a video camera. But, not just because of this.

One example:
Recently I had a film shoot where the shot should have taken 5 seconds. I turn record and before we call action the camera buffers and stops. Tried three more times and it did the same thing but midway through the shot.
I dumped the past shot footage and photos that were on the card (which was still below 8gb) and this time it ran smoothly for several minutes.

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If I had the $$$ Id get the F3. Not a big fan of the AF100 at all. The FS100 looks like the best runner up at this moment, but still looking into it. I'd probably have to wait about 2-3 months by the time I can buy one anyways :/
 
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DDirector said:
Recently I had a film shoot where the shot should have taken 5 seconds. I turn record and before we call action the camera buffers and stops. Tried three more times and it did the same thing but midway through the shot. I dumped the past shot footage and photos that were on the card (which was still below 8gb) and this time it ran smoothly for several minutes.
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I have a 60D and have never encountered anything like this on Patriot/Transcend/Sandisk SD cards (all Class 10). You did say you were using Magic Lantern, so you're not changing any of the encoding settings by any chance are you? That's a big no-no if you are. If you're having legitimate card issues, I'd try uninstalling ML entirely first off and seeing if your issues go away. I've used ML on my 60D as well without issue, but that's the only thing I can see that would cause that, outside of a bad card or SD slot on your camera. (EDIT: Also had a T2i for a little while, and never had buffering issues either).

The FS100 looks like the best runner up at this moment, but still looking into it. I'd probably have to wait about 2-3 months by the time I can buy one anyways
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I would never choose an FS100 over the AF100. I think they look nearly identical, especially if you don't just casually accept the default scene settings, and the AF100 has built-in NDs and SDI out. The FS700 is a different story because it has both of those, and a much better sensor, but then you're near the price of a used F3.

Get a used AF100 for around $2.5k. Best deal right now, IMO, when money's an issue.
 
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