Varicam Mini ?

A side comment.

I think there is a real hole in the market for a small solo operator camera that works. Professionally.

Probably MFT is the right sensor size to make a 'reasonable zoom' with a FOV equiv of S35 18-120

The camera would need a truly robust codec, 444 2.5k maybe.

It would need..
-not to have a 30s reboot to change framerate
-must shoot to dual cards for redundancy
-a zoom lens that is of qualirty
-XLRs, at least 4 audio tracks
-Lut management
-Meta data
-sensible ergonomics
-no wires dangling waiting to break
-low mass

to name a few.


I dont really desire any available camera right now, I live with my FS7 as a usable0-ish compromise, but nothing beyond that appeals to me for solo shooting.

C300ii too wrong. Vari LT too heavy. C700 too heavy, Amera too heavy. Red.. about them
 
Unless you're needing something SUPER tiny/light just for gimbal type use, I don't get why you need something much smaller than the LT already is. Then you're just gonna have to add crap to it to make it really useable, again. I'm not a big fan of the LT body, it's just too much like their old industrial camera heads of 'days of yore', but I definitely do not consider it big. In fact, I prefer the size of the V35. I'm just used to and prefer a larger camera when it's on my shoulder. I can actually get a used one for less than the price of a new LT, but the only thing holding me back, besides not really wanting to spend a bunch of money right now, is the inability to swap mounts on it, which is huge to me, because I have a beautiful set of CN-E primes that can't be used on it.
 
Noel Evans said:
Let's wait and see what NAB brings. It's just around the corner! ...
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Does this mean - nudge-nudge - it's the right time for the NAB'17 forum to open?

morgan_moore said:
A side comment.

I think there is a real hole in the market for a small solo operator camera that works. Professionally.

Probably MFT is the right sensor size to make a 'reasonable zoom' with a FOV equiv of S35 18-120 ...
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And then the question becomes whether you make it with an IL mount or fixed.

And, at what price point.
 
DLD said:
And then the question becomes whether you make it with an IL mount or fixed.

And, at what price point.
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Changeable mount, $10k.. actually not that far from the Ursa Mini by a 'pro company'?

Personally I think the unspeedboostable canon mount sucks as do their infinite rotate lenses.
 
You can boost an EF mount... But you need to use medium format lenses to do it. That would mean things like a T3.x lens with T4.5 or T5 more common. And a 24f4 lens being about as wide as you can get (fisheye on 645). But you could still do autofocus and these are often easier to find than the older manual lenses.

Said said, I have a bunch of medium format lenses from the days when I used to shoot film stills, and the images are indeed nice. I can adapt many of these to my current m43 camera (and Fuji X if it ever makes sense).
 
Yep it is technically possible.. but Im talking about a practical small camera and lenses in daily use like 24-105 etc. IMO the FS7 has a big up on the VariLT (and C300ii) in that it has a short flange depth.
 
IronFilm said:
Why did you buy a Varicam LT when you already had a Sony FS7?
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Many reasons why, one that comes to mind is I prefer the image of the Varicam and the functionality of the dual ISO in the sensor. I felt like I could never get the image I wanted on the FS7 after owning it for two years. It always looked great to my client, but I always felt something was off with it. I just seem to prefer the Varicam and it's color. It's really just a personal thing, I am not bashing what the FS7 has done already - I was able to produce a sizable chunk of work with it over the past two years. Just felt the Varicam LT was a natural progression and something I preferred image-wise.
 
Run&Gun said:
Unless you're needing something SUPER tiny/light just for gimbal type use, I don't get why you need something much smaller than the LT already is. Then you're just gonna have to add crap to it to make it really useable,
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I just don't get how people schlep 2:3 cameras or s35/cn17-120s about. Maybe I'm just super puny. Personally I want a small light good camera for omb work. In my past life (stills) I did stunts like some hiking/mountains - things that I don't think anyone, but an Olympian or navy seal could really do solo with a "traditional" camera.

Today I'd like something I could both cycle with (my city is grid locked) and also carry carry-on.

A gh4 and bits doesn't work - my ex1 is a bit big and crappy but nicely free of gubbins - the fs5 is tempting but still too plastic to really be a professional tool.

A robust fs5 (both codec and build esp viewfinder) would be wonderful - especially in mft with a scaled down cine style zoom for reality and a couple of voigts for 'art'
 
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morgan_moore said:
Changeable mount, $10k.. actually not that far from the Ursa Mini by a 'pro company'? ...
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The specs seem to be too close to GH5 + the external recorder (and there doesn't seem to be any early problems with the GH5 internal recordings either and that's before the promised 400 Mbps upgrade).
 
DLD said:
The specs seem to be too close to GH5 + the external recorder (and there doesn't seem to be any early problems with the GH5 internal recordings either and that's before the promised 400 Mbps upgrade).
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The thing about the GH5 is that it is completely useless.

Well of course it is not, but it is not a mini varicam.

I own a GH4 and occasionally use it.

The build of the GH4 is no good..

-not even a second tripod mount hole.
-no XLRs
-no ND
-stupid menus

-and all the problems that the FS7/C300/variLT have..

lut management, poor menues, crappy EVF, terrible shape, wires to snag.. whatever..

redundancy (shooting 2 cards?)?

4 sound channels

slow startup

whatever.. all not there in the Gh5
 
morgan_moore said:
I just don't get how people schlep 2:3 cameras or s35/cn17-120s about. Maybe I'm just super puny. Personally I want a small light good camera for omb work. In my past life (stills) I did stunts like some hiking/mountains - things that I don't think anyone, but an Olympian or navy seal could really do solo with a "traditional" camera.

Today I'd like something I could both cycle with (my city is grid locked) and also carry carry-on.

A gh4 and bits doesn't work - my ex1 is a bit big and crappy but nicely free of gubbins - the fs5 is tempting but still too plastic to really be a professional tool.

A robust fs5 (both codec and build esp viewfinder) would be wonderful - especially in mft with a scaled down cine style zoom for reality and a couple of voigts for 'art'
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It goes back to the discussions we've had about this before: it's all in what the individual is used to, likes and needs. There have been times I've needed something small, like a few years ago when I was shooting live in a Mustang going around the track at 100mph+ with my reporter and producer with the TVU in the back seat and me and the race car driver in the front. It would have been almost impossible with my ENG camera(P2 Vari) as I needed to sit in the cramped front seat with low ceiling and turn to get the reporter in the back, the driver in the front and shoot out through the windshield, too, so we used the producers "handycam". That was a situation where we used the best tool for the job that we had available. I've also done something stupid like hike through the forest/mountains with a Betacam for a shoot about trout fishing. I wanted to kill myself about 20 minutes in. As much as I hate to admit it, I would have loved to have had something like a C300 stripped down for that shoot, but back then it didn't exist. With all that being said, those types of shoots/situations are the exception for me and I'd prefer larger, ENG style camera and lenses. Now, if you wanna talk about weight, I WOULD like to shave a few pounds off my rigs, but if I have to sacrifice a balanced rig for weight, I'll accept a heavier camera to keep it balanced.
 
morgan_moore said:
But it is not a 'video camera'.. XLR, ND, let alone a good video camera.. dual cards nice ergonomics, 4000iso, lut support workable connectors and viewfinder timecode.
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Every camera has pros and cons. Being able to fly the GH5 on small hand-held gimbal is a pretty big deal compared to trying to fly a RED Epic / Sony FS7 / Varicam LT the same way.

Same thing when trying to be "invisible" and grab shots in places that might not be too friendly to a full production crew.

Or if you operate as a "one-man army" and need three camera bodies for your location shoot. This is perfectly doable with three GH5 cameras, but I would not want to try and do the same with three RED Epics all by myself.
 
morgan_moore said:
Yep.. but the thread is 'Varicam Mini' and Im outlying what I think this should be. A small 'cinematic' video camera
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So how would this "Varicam Mini" be different compared to a Canon C300 Mk2 or Sony FS7 Mk2 ? ( what would it bring to the table that these two cameras don't already ? )
 
TheDingo said:
So how would this "Varicam Mini" be different compared to a Canon C300 Mk2 or Sony FS7 Mk2 ? ( what would it bring to the table that these two cameras don't already ? )
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Um, a beautiful image? Dual-ISO sensor? Proper skin tones?

I'm not saying there is anything happening or not or stating specs or saying that this is anything other than a fun conjecture thread (please don't go posting that I confirmed anything because I am not). But what I am stating is that there are things that the VariCam line brings to the table. I have yet to meet anyone who has not been impressed by the image. All of the VariCam models (Pure/35/LT/HS) make absolutely exquisite images, with pleasing, non-plastic skin tones and accurate colors and textures. We can blabber about feature sets all we want, but in the end it is the pictures these cameras make that matter.
 
ya, but this is a Panasonic vs. Panasonic side-thread, so choose your sides carefully.
 
I'm still going by what I jokingly suggested in the NAB thread, that we need a tiny little cube with a real lens mount that has the Varicam image qualities for those times when something very small is the correct tool for the job. Not an end all be all camera that happens to be small like an FS5. Yes that would certainly be a nice option, but there are so many different cameras in this size that it might get lost in the noise. Think Black Magic micro cinema camera size or that Canon I mentioned earlier. I think this is a niche they can fill and maybe make money with, the FS5 size would have to be stellar and priced at rock bottom prices to capture that market, and then there probably would be no profit. They can't make a full featured Varicam in FS5 size and at FS5 (or lower) price. If they could, they probably would have had it out already to produce a "trio" of Varicams to cover small, mid, and high end productions or as companions (B cams) for high end productions.
 
morgan_moore said:
Yep.. but the thread is 'Varicam Mini' and Im outlying what I think this should be. A small 'cinematic' video camera
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Im all aboard on this. All the technology is there, but no one is actually making a REALLY thought through, portable, "cinema" doc camera. It would require some serious design, but Im sure it could be done
 
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