Varicam Mini ?

C

Colin Nusbaum

Member
I have seen some mentions, rumors, guesses, and pipe dreams on the forums. But I have also heard, in fact, that Panasonic may be developing an even smaller Varicam (than the LT).

I for one, would be thrilled about the opportunity to buy a C300-sized Varicam. But what are the chances they will sell the Dual ISO Sensor technology in a new camera for under $13k? What are the chances we will find out later this month at NAB?
 
The chances? Nobody outside the company would know that.

It is reasonable to expect that if such a product were coming in the immediate/foreseeable future (as in, sometime in 2017) then yes, it would be likely to be announced at the NAB convention. However, that is no guarantee; sometimes they've announced cameras at IBC, or even at Photokina.

One thing that is painfully obvious to everyone is that Panasonic has a gap in the large-sensor ILC camera market, seeing as they offer only the GH5 at $2,000 and the VariCam LT at $18,000, with no offerings inbetween. So yes, there's a gap. But will it be filled? That's a highly competitive market segment, with dozens of choices from every possible manufacturer; is there really room for another Ursa/BMCC/Red/FS5/LS300/C100/C300/etc/etc/etc camera? I guess we'll see. Or not. IMO, that's one reason Panasonic went a different direction with the DVX200 -- the ILC market is so flooded with choices, but nobody was making an integrated all-in-one large sensor camera. So does that mean that they would be looking at an ILC? Or do they have bigger plans for an all-in-one?

It all comes down to: nobody outside the company knows. Only people inside the company know. And if there's anything to say, they're not saying it.
 
Barry_Green said:
The chances? Nobody outside the company would know that.

It is reasonable to expect that if such a product were coming in the immediate/foreseeable future (as in, sometime in 2017) then yes, it would be likely to be announced at the NAB convention. However, that is no guarantee; sometimes they've announced cameras at IBC, or even at Photokina.

One thing that is painfully obvious to everyone is that Panasonic has a gap in the large-sensor ILC camera market, seeing as they offer only the GH5 at $2,000 and the VariCam LT at $18,000, with no offerings inbetween. So yes, there's a gap. But will it be filled? That's a highly competitive market segment, with dozens of choices from every possible manufacturer; is there really room for another Ursa/BMCC/Red/FS5/LS300/C100/C300/etc/etc/etc camera? I guess we'll see. Or not. IMO, that's one reason Panasonic went a different direction with the DVX200 -- the ILC market is so flooded with choices, but nobody was making an integrated all-in-one large sensor camera. So does that mean that they would be looking at an ILC? Or do they have bigger plans for an all-in-one?

It all comes down to: nobody outside the company knows. Only people inside the company know. And if there's anything to say, they're not saying it.
Click to expand...

When the FS7 came out, a lot of people were doubting it's success and potential. I bought into the first run of Sony FS7's because it was the perfect camera for me at the time to grow my business. When I decided to purchase my LT, I decided it was the right move to push my business even further, similar to the FS7 did for me 3 or so years ago. Now I see a lot of productions using FS7's because of it's wide variety of uses. I was hired quite a bit with it and my clients were very happy with its performance.

What I think Panasonic has done well is creating success with the Panasonic GH series and creating a perfect alternative to the DSLR. I would love to see a mid-level Varicam LT "Mini" that the OP is mentioning. My preference would be a C100 or Sony FS5 sized camera with Varicam internals. EF mount only, 4K Compressed / 2K - 1080p 444, Dual ISO, Internal batteries like DVX200, and utilizes SDXC cards. I think the FS7 is basically the same size as the Varicam LT, so based on size it wouldn't differentiate itself enough. I think price point wise, I would love to see a sub 10k camera from Panasonic that competes with C300 Mark II and FS7 which is so popular right now for various reasons.

I guess now we wait for NAB and see what comes out!
 
Panasonic's press conference will be streamed live at 2PM on Sunday, April, 23rd.

(and, as soon as Panasonic finishes, it's Sony's turn).

The official announcements often come out in a staggered fashion - 2-3 days apart from one another - within a couple of weeks prior to these pressers.

Rumors have a schedule of their own.

Mitch Gross said:
I guess you were hoping I would chime in.
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quote-one-thing-only-i-know-and-that-is-that-i-know-nothing-socrates-351591.jpg
 
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As An early adopter Varicam LT user. I certainly see the need for a B camera for the LT and a camera that the GH4/5 user can grow into (the same way the canon DSLR users grew into the C series cameras). I am using the Kinefinity as a B camera for the Varicam and I just acquired a GH5 to back up my varicam LT. I think a s35 FS5 style camera would be a welcome addition for me. Field of view that matches the Varicam LT and Easily go back and fourth between both camera with the same lenses.
I think there is generally a basis for rumors and Panasonic seems to be listening to users and potential users, so I'll go ahead and start my list of essential features, since Mitch is on here i'll back it up with a duffel bag full of singles $ at NAB as a deposit for said camera, And I know a few other LT owner who would do the Same


-FS5/C100 size
-S35mm dual ISO sensor (doesn't have to be 800/5000 iso ... 800/4000 will do , I already own an LT...)
-Varicam color science
-Dci 4k 60p (internally)
-2k 240 FPS
-Raw out of the SDI like the varicam LT
-interchangeable lens mount or Mirror less mount (because using one lens mount in 2017 is for the birds)
-Proxy recording
-10 bit Everything (new slogan...lets be honest if the GH5 is recording 10 bit there is no reason every pro camera from here on out should't be)
-Support for LUTs (like the Varicam LT and ... well The GH5)
- anamorphic recording (I've been living with the side crop on my Varicam LT, I will take it on a smaller camera)
-Recording to consumer media And I NOT MEAN cFAST (the there are new affordable card that will do the high bit rates.

If I missed something I'm sure other will chime in,

Mitch where would you like the bag of money for this camera delivered??
 
Mitch Gross said:
I guess you were hoping I would chime in.
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Yes... lol

sean007davis said:
As An early adopter Varicam LT user. I certainly see the need for a B camera for the LT and a camera that the GH4/5 user can grow into (the same way the canon DSLR users grew into the C series cameras). I am using the Kinefinity as a B camera for the Varicam and I just acquired a GH5 to back up my varicam LT. I think a s35 FS5 style camera would be a welcome addition for me. Field of view that matches the Varicam LT and Easily go back and fourth between both camera with the same lenses.
I think there is generally a basis for rumors and Panasonic seems to be listening to users and potential users, so I'll go ahead and start my list of essential features, since Mitch is on here i'll back it up with a duffel bag full of singles $ at NAB as a deposit for said camera, And I know a few other LT owner who would do the Same


-FS5/C100 size
-S35mm dual ISO sensor (doesn't have to be 800/5000 iso ... 800/4000 will do , I already own an LT...)
-Varicam color science
-Dci 4k 60p (internally)
-2k 240 FPS
-Raw out of the SDI like the varicam LT
-interchangeable lens mount or Mirror less mount (because using one lens mount in 2017 is for the birds)
-Proxy recording
-10 bit Everything (new slogan...lets be honest if the GH5 is recording 10 bit there is no reason every pro camera from here on out should't be)
-Support for LUTs (like the Varicam LT and ... well The GH5)
- anamorphic recording (I've been living with the side crop on my Varicam LT, I will take it on a smaller camera)
-Recording to consumer media And I NOT MEAN cFAST (the there are new affordable card that will do the high bit rates.

If I missed something I'm sure other will chime in,

Mitch where would you like the bag of money for this camera delivered??
Click to expand...

And how about a price around the new Ursa Pro or even a bit cheaper... :)
 
sean007davis said:
Mitch where would you like the bag of money for this camera delivered??
Click to expand...
I am more than happy to accept bags of money and checks made out to 'cash' as long as you don't expect to see anything in particular in return. Hand them to me personally in an alley behind the convention hall.
 
is there an alleged number that would be delivered in said alley that would potentially guarantee list of desired specs get delivered to Panasonic engineers in Japan.
I might know a guy that might or might not be at NAB if that sort of thing is a possibility...
I know another guy who would be willing to crowd source said duffel bag fund
I mean allegedly....LOL
 
The dev. budget for a pro camera is in the several million territory, so it's gonna have to be one heckuva bag.

But for you I can work a deal. I like the cut of your jib.
 
sean007davis said:
list of desired specs get delivered to Panasonic engineers in Japan.
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Getting the list to the engineers has never been a problem.

Getting approval from marketing and management for that "several million territory" budget? They've got to believe that they'll be able to sell enough product to warrant making that product, worldwide. If a few enthusiasts go ga-ga but the mass market passes on it, then no, it's not going to be approved. If ten thousand Indian, Malaysian, Russian and European television stations tell them they have to build an AC30 and that they'll buy hundreds of thousands of them, and a few hundred cinema enthusiasts say "make a Varicam Mini and maybe we'll consider buying it instead of the Red or the Canon or the Sony or the JVC or the BlackMagic version of the same camera", then ... I'm thinking the development resources are going to be allocated to the AC30 project, y'know what I mean?

We've been telling them for years exactly what products we want. Sometimes they listen -- and are rewarded with monster hits like the HVX200 and HPX170. Sometimes, they listen more to the folks who want them to build an AG-AC7. And who knows, maybe that was a monster hit for them, I don't know. But I can well see why they'd be cautious about pouring a lot of development time, energy, and money into a more niche-market product that has a lot of competition already. Maybe they will. Maybe they see an opportunity in the market that they can uniquely exploit. We'll see. But the lack of the specific product you're asking for is not because they haven't heard about it from the end users, because I can most assuredly assure you, they certainly have.
 
"-FS5/C100 size
-S35mm dual ISO sensor (doesn't have to be 800/5000 iso ... 800/4000 will do , I already own an LT...)
-Varicam color science
-Dci 4k 60p (internally)
-2k 240 FPS
-Raw out of the SDI like the varicam LT
-interchangeable lens mount or Mirror less mount (because using one lens mount in 2017 is for the birds)
-Proxy recording
-10 bit Everything (new slogan...lets be honest if the GH5 is recording 10 bit there is no reason every pro camera from here on out should't be)
-Support for LUTs (like the Varicam LT and ... well The GH5)
- anamorphic recording (I've been living with the side crop on my Varicam LT, I will take it on a smaller camera)
-Recording to consumer media And I NOT MEAN cFAST (the there are new affordable card that will do the high bit rates."


Aren't you describing the not yet released successor to the AF100? It was the opportunity that Panny missed to take that ideal platform and push it into the next level which I would have gladly purchased.

P2 codecs. CF would be OK, but full size P2 is still my fav
Interchangable lenses, preferably EF
4k
SDI
Great VF and flip-out
24bit audio

This seems like a no brainer considering the success of EOS cams.
 
sean007davis said:
-interchangeable lens mount or Mirror less mount (because using one lens mount in 2017 is for the birds)
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I've been saying the same thing. I mentioned it in '14 to Panasonic at NAB and apparently a lot of other people did too, because the LT(yes, I know they aimed at a different market) at least has (sorta)swappable factory EF and PL mounts. And this is one of the big things holding me back from the V35. I can lay my hands on one, that I know the provenance of, for a ludicrously "cheap" price(WAY less than any LT Kit), but the only factory mount is PL and the only swappable mount system that I've been made aware of that is designed for the V35 appears to be mechanical only, so I lose 'LDS'. If a third party can do it, certainly Panasonic could make a retrofit/user swappable EF mount for the 35 and it still be profitable for them. I'd easily pay $1500-$2000 without batting an eyelash for the ability/flexibility. I just paid more than that for the eUMS mount to be added to my 17-120.
 
Run&Gun said:
I've been saying the same thing. I mentioned it in '14 to Panasonic at NAB and apparently a lot of other people did too, because the LT(yes, I know they aimed at a different market) at least has (sorta)swappable factory EF and PL mounts. And this is one of the big things holding me back from the V35. I can lay my hands on one, that I know the provenance of, for a ludicrously "cheap" price(WAY less than any LT Kit), but the only factory mount is PL and the only swappable mount system that I've been made aware of that is designed for the V35 appears to be mechanical only, so I lose 'LDS'. If a third party can do it, certainly Panasonic could make a retrofit/user swappable EF mount for the 35 and it still be profitable for them. I'd easily pay $1500-$2000 without batting an eyelash for the ability/flexibility. I just paid more than that for the eUMS mount to be added to my 17-120.
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May I point out that the "(sorta) swappable" lens mounts on the VariCam LT are in fact highly swappable. The process takes under two minutes and requires only a little hex wrench, primarily there to make sure the mounts are nice & solid on the camera. I would totally consider this a field-swappable mount and much design consideration has gone into assuring that there is no shift in flange depth when swapping, so it is a quick & painless process. In fact I believe there is a video somewhere showing how quickly and easily it can be done (cue Sean).
 
I know we've been over this before and I know it is user swappable in the field, BUT I say "sorta", because you have to use a tool. I've been spoiled by the F55 that only take ~1/4 turn to remove the mount. I can pull off a mount and have another on in, literally, seconds. Now I will admit that I do not know if there are any negative trade-offs with the Sony FZ mount system compared to the Panasonic.

I don't mean to come off like I'm being too hard on Panasonic, because I am a fan and I would gladly take Panasonic's current system, if they could adapt it to the V35, over nothing, but I would rather have a "lock-on/lock-off" system like Sony's.

*Edit*

After watching a few videos on-line of the mount swap, I'm pretty sure I can completely swap out mounts on a 55 in less time than it takes to loosen one hex screw on the LT.
 
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Mitch Gross said:
The dev. budget for a pro camera is in the several million territory ...
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However, there's always some overlap. One could, for example, find an essentially the same camera with the various sensor sizes or with different feature sets, something that Canon did (more or less) with the original C100 and C300 and BMD did with the URSA line, etc. And then this becomes a combined engineering and managerial decision.

Now, where are those Panasonic financials?
 
Knowing something about the internal turmoil of what's been going on at Panasonic with their Varicams and managers of that product, I really do hope they get their act together and produce a camera for that now vital "under 10K" segment of the market, or better market / price the LT. The LT does produce a very fine image. It would be nice if it had a locking EF mount option.
 
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