VariCam LT 2.0, EVA2?

Run&Gun said:
Yes, I'd love to hear those, too. I know Mitch will come on and say, "That's all super secrete proprietary blah, blah, blah...". I'm not really asking, I'd just love to know for my own nerdy curiosity, especially working in this business where we get to see so much 'behind-the-curtain/how-the-sausage-is-made' stuff. Anyway...

I wonder how much the body factors into it, because the LT is built like a tank compared to the Fs7.
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That's because the way both cameras are built is quite different I think. The LT is built as a 'mini' version of a high-end cinema camera. The FS7 is built as a broadcast market workhouse. Two very different approaches, with different costs. If you look at the Varicam production facility you can see they are essentially built by hand. http://www.fdtimes.com/pdfs/articles/panasonic/66FDTimes-Panasonic-Tour-Feb2015.pdf

Comparing these two cameras makes no sense. The competition for the LT was the F55, the C500, RED cameras, the Arri Amira and maybe even the Alexa. All very different price range. The LT was late to the party and has no 4k above 60fps. But a very solid camera with DR second only to the Arri's (in the highlights) and gorgeous, natural colours and skin tones. And dual ISO, which no one else had at the time. Sits on the shoulder better than almost any other digital cine camera. There is more to compare than sensor size, resolution and price tag.
If you think the colours and DR from an FS7 are good enough then the LT is 'overkill' to you. But that does not mean these cameras are in the same league. There is a clear difference in IQ between the two.
 
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Mark Broadbent said:
The LT is by far the best camera I've owned. For me personally I'm on the lookout for a change for two primary reasons - firstly full frame is very much in demand in some of the more commercial side of my work. The second point is size. I spend a lot of time on planes around the world and there are many times where an LT is simply too big and bulky. I've been taking my EVA on these trips and it's pretty good but not really up there with build reliability. In just a 2 week shoot my hand grip locked up and cant be rotated, and an SDI connector broke. It was a tough environment however the Varicam has seen a lot more action with barely an issue. If a full frame LT popped up in a form factor that is closer to EVA than LT I'd have a deposit down in a heart beat. I just fear that such a camera is a long way off.

AF is a happy bonus, not essential in any way for me.
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Thanks. Good points all round!
 
OliverM said:
That's because the way both cameras are built is quite different I think. The LT is built as a 'mini' version of a high-end cinema camera. The FS7 is built as a broadcast market workhouse. Two very different approaches, with different costs. If you look at the Varicam production facility you can see they are essentially built by hand. http://www.fdtimes.com/pdfs/articles/panasonic/66FDTimes-Panasonic-Tour-Feb2015.pdf

Comparing these two cameras makes no sense. The competition for the LT was the F55, the C500, RED cameras, the Arri Amira and maybe even the Alexa. All very different price range. The LT was late to the party and has no 4k above 60fps. But a very solid camera with DR second only to the Arri's (in the highlights) and gorgeous, natural colours and skin tones. And dual ISO, which no one else had at the time. Sits on the shoulder better than almost any other digital cine camera. There is more to compare than sensor size, resolution and price tag.
If you think the colours and DR from an FS7 are good enough then the LT is 'overkill' to you. But that does not mean these cameras are in the same league. There is a clear difference in IQ between the two.
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As someone with a broadcast/network background I would argue against the Fs7 being built as a “broadcast market workhorse”. It’s construction is that of a toy compared to a real “broadcast” camera.
 
Run&Gun said:
As someone with a broadcast/network background I would argue against the Fs7 being built as a “broadcast market workhorse”. It’s construction is that of a toy compared to a real “broadcast” camera.
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Big ole emphatic +1

I recall early days self funded docu crews and corporate shooters gravitating to the camera. A lot of people initially panned it as having a “Sony” look, which was a bad thing for a hot second. Then everyone figured out Slog, and away it went. Social media productions also were a colmon place to see Fs7’s. But broadcast? I can’t think of one friend or colleague in the broadcast world that uses them. Maybe the stadiums or teams have Fs7’s as an in-house camera. Maybe.
 
James0b57 said:
Big ole emphatic +1

I recall early days self funded docu crews and corporate shooters gravitating to the camera. A lot of people initially panned it as having a “Sony” look, which was a bad thing for a hot second. Then everyone figured out Slog, and away it went. Social media productions also were a colmon place to see Fs7’s. But broadcast? I can’t think of one friend or colleague in the broadcast world that uses them. Maybe the stadiums or teams have Fs7’s as an in-house camera. Maybe.
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They did make their way into the feature side of things, much like the F55/5(with some people actually doing “news coverage” with them- and especially some doing LS’s)(I know guys that ditched their HDX-900’s and do everything with their F5/55’s*). And they do offer a lot of bang for the buck, feature wise, but their build is definitely just a step above “My First Sony”.


*But you know me, 2700 VariCam forever for real ENG. Ride or Die... Lol
 
Run&Gun said:
They did make their way into the feature side of things, much like the F55/5(with some people actually doing “news coverage” with them- and especially some doing LS’s)(I know guys that ditched their HDX-900’s and do everything with their F5/55’s*). And they do offer a lot of bang for the buck, feature wise, but their build is definitely just a step above “My First Sony”.


*But you know me, 2700 VariCam forever for real ENG. Ride or Die... Lol
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I’ve seen local news station brandish some prosumerish gear. But understandable. They’re trying upgrade on no budgets.
 
Run&Gun said:
As someone with a broadcast/network background I would argue against the Fs7 being built as a “broadcast market workhorse”. It’s construction is that of a toy compared to a real “broadcast” camera.
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Ok, fair point. Poor choice of words on my part. What I meant was the LT is constructed with the same high end mindset as the bigger brother, while the fs7 is clearly a more budget friendly, mass market approach. They come from two different places, so I think it’s not really fair to compare those two and say Panasonic dropped the ball.
 
Trust me when I say that this is a decision based on a corporate realization that it is unsafe at this time to send staff to such an event as well as a recognition that there may ver well be few clients interested in risking attending to make participation worthwhile. As far as what product is announced at what time, such things are planned and worked towards many months if not years in advance as these developments require a great deal of time.
 
I didn’t doubt that the reason why Panasonic decided to stay safe at home.
I have lost a little hope for a fresh lineup though
 
Two points that others have made: as far as image IQ goes, the LT (and the EVA for that matter) is still a great camera. People get so caught up in specs, but the most important spec is image IQ in my opinion. Arri knows this.

Second, I do like what Canon is doing with the new C300/500s. If only those cameras were at respective lower price points (C300 in the $7k range, C500 in the $10k range), but Canon is doing a lot of things right in my opinion. Does anyone know what the time frame was between updates for these cameras? Seems like Canon is being really responsive on that front. Waiting to see what Arri's S35 camera (due for release second half of this year) is going to look like.
 
The last Canon cinema camera announced (not counting the full-frame C700 from 2018) was the C200 in 2017, so I think you should be good for 2.5-3 years or so if you'd like a Canon cinema system.

Most of the frequent turnover will come on the mirrorless side, which should have a variety of models for lower prices.

IMO, the R5 is Canon's most anticipated camera since the 5D Mark IV, which disappointed many.
 
Carlos13 said:
Two points that others have made: as far as image IQ goes, the LT (and the EVA for that matter) is still a great camera. People get so caught up in specs, but the most important spec is image IQ in my opinion. Arri knows this.

Second, I do like what Canon is doing with the new C300/500s. If only those cameras were at respective lower price points (C300 in the $7k range, C500 in the $10k range), but Canon is doing a lot of things right in my opinion. Does anyone know what the time frame was between updates for these cameras? Seems like Canon is being really responsive on that front. Waiting to see what Arri's S35 camera (due for release second half of this year) is going to look like.
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There's no doubt at all of the IQ of the EVA1 and the Varicam. For me it was a big step up from the FS7 to the EVA1 not only in terms of image quality but also in the improved speed in postproduction. I get the nicer image way faster. Nevertheless is the low market share a significant problem if you are freelance DP who is booked with his own camera. From my observations the request of FS7 is even more than the Canon C series.

Canon made a lot things right with the new C300iii/C500iii. Off course we wish it would be less expensive but I think the price especially for the C300iii is acceptable for all the features. Even if real cinematographers don't use AF I always said I'd pay a grand extra for an EVA1 with reliable AF. Seems I have to pay a little more for better low light, 4K120p and internal raw. I really wish this would have been the EVA2 - but as a solo operator with a gimbal DPAF is priceless.
 
Clermond said:
There's no doubt at all of the IQ of the EVA1 and the Varicam. For me it was a big step up from the FS7...
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I understand what you mean about the FS7's popularity in the marketplace, but the weird thing about Sony is that they can make cameras with great image IQ (F3, F23, F65) and cameras whose footage looks very video-ish (imo, whatever that means). I have an F3, and that is still one of the nicest HD cameras I have ever used, but I've never been a fan of the images produced by the FS7, and feel the same way about the FX9 (even though I've never used it). So as you mentioned, I agree that the EVA1 produces much nicer looking footage than the FS7 (again, my opinion), and I've been very happy with my EVA's performance.

The market and technology in general, however, moves very quickly, and I hope that Panasonic is responsive to what others in the marketplace are doing (R5/Mavo Edge/Z-cams...) I think that Canon's new C300/500s are doing a lot of things right, and their image IQ is supposed to be really really good. So if you had to choose between C500mii or an LT, or an EVA1 or a C300miii, which would you choose? I know the answer to that depends on a whole bunch of factors, but fun to consider anyway.
 
Carlos13 said:
... So if you had to choose between C500mii or an LT, or an EVA1 or a C300miii, which would you choose? I know the answer to that depends on a whole bunch of factors, but fun to consider anyway.
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I have made my decision. I ordered the C300iii already. Since I upgraded from a F700/Odyssey I was torn between AF - 4K60p - IQ. The C300ii with only 30p was a no go as well as the C200 with the lack of XAVC 10bit. The FS7 paid of but I spent endless hours trying to find custom settings that came close to what a GH5 delivers out of the camera. Despite all it's downsites it was an easy decision for the EVA1. Nevertheless as a solo shooter I always was leering to Canon's DPAF. But now with 4K120p XAVC DPAF it's pretty close to the camera that I would have picked from a modular system. But I see the EVA1 going with a tear in my eye though.
 
The EVA was launched 5000 years after the FS7. This was its downfall as anyone who needed a mid price pro camera already bought the FS7.

Nothing to do with picture quality.
 
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