VariCam LT 2.0, EVA2?

C

Carlos13

Member
I wonder what features the updated versions of the VariCam LT and the EVA1 will have? In light of what is currently available in the marketplace (S1H, BMPCC6K, FX9, z cams, I know that these cams are all over the spectrum, but marketplace is getting really competitive...) what would be reasonable expectations? When will that 8K organic sensor make its way into the VariCams?

EVA2: 6K (full frame) sensor, 4:3 mode (anamorphic), internal proRes (no likely), higher frame rates, a better monitor....

Varicam LT2:
*higher resolution/frame rates
*physical audio controls on the operator side of camera....
 
EVA2 must must have the L-Mount. So easy to adapt to other mounts. Sony can fit ND on the e-mount and there is 2mm more on the L. Please Panasonic!
 
The organic sensors sounds very interesting. But I would guess that technology would first appear on a Varicam Mark II, then an LT (which is a b-camera), then EVA2, and S1H style cameras last.
So I wouldn't hold your breath.

I had decided that I wouldn't get a new camera, unless it has a global shutter. But that article sounds very interesting because of high resolution, high saturation and global shutter technology would seems to remove almost all imaging artifacts. Hopefully Panasonic will deliver that technology on a full 4:3 framed sensor for with a color palette leaning towards cinematography. The white paper reads like its broadcast/sports oriented. Like when they talk about dynamic range, it's in the terms of sports arenas...... (((
 
I was on a FX9 demo and the AF is sth to get jealous for solo shooters..
AF and l-mount for the EVA2
6k FF for the Varicam
Please.
 
I have some concerns as to where Matsus*%ta is going with Panasonic what with the fact that Panasonic have been hemorrhaging with Panasonic Semiconductor having lost $215 million in the last year. The news of the sale of Panasonic's semiconductor and sensor business is not good. Obviously means Panasonic are going to be reliant on buying in sensors from guess who? The market leader in sensor manufacturer I guess amongst others. I never like to see a near monopoly in technology as that tends to stifle business competitiveness and tech development. One only has to look to ARRI to see that using a third party sensor designed in conjunction with a camera manufacturer can be very successful. How this approach would translate across a wide model range manufacturing base I don't know. Time will tell I guess. Mitch might be able to throw some light on the subject as news develops as to Panasonic's future camera development plans.

Chris Young

Strange? Regardless of whether I type or paste and copy the parent company name it doesn't reproduce correctly? Matsus*%ta? How odd?
 
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The forum has always blocked the 4 letter word in the middle (or for a while now).
 
Yes, and besides, Matsushita hasn't existed for many years. They formally changed the corporate name to Panasonic years ago.
 
NorBro said:
The forum has always blocked the 4 letter word in the middle (or for a while now).
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Matsus-hita changed its corporate name to Panasonic anyway.

As to the cameras, Panasonic is announcing two camcorders tomorrow and, with FX-9 and C500 MKII stealing the headlines, a Panasonic "cinema" camera might have to wait a while. 1D XMKII will also be officially revealed before/during the CES. At $6,500, it will compete with EVA1 (or 2). Maybe, S1H will get some sort of an external Raw upgrade to make some waves first.
 
First off, we're doing just fine thank you. You do not need to worry aout the future of Panasonic Pro Video. For one thing we're the industry leader in PTZs, and if that doesn't sound particularly sexy or interesting to you, understand that we sell absolute boatloads of the stuff and it pays for everything else - switchers, studio cameras, camcorders, cinema, etc. We're happily putting along doing just fine.

Let me also tell you a little something about large multinational corporations. We do not function as a single entity but instead as a group of companies. I won't get into great detail, but essentially each group buys and sells with the others. We were purchasing sensors from the sensor manufacturing group, and even if they are no longer a part of Panasonic we will continue to do so. We will both because of existing contracts and because it is smart business for both of us to continue to do so. The fact is that Panasonic also buys from Sony and they also buy from us, and we both often buy from the same third parties. That's just how it works and it kinda doesn't matter who owns what in regard to us having access to technology or the capacity to manufacture our own designs. That stuff is just a bunch of business arrangements.

As far as any upcoming developments for the Panasonic Cinema camera line, well be my guest to keep guessing but I'm afraid I cannot share such details. Panasonic has lots of plans and we continue to evaluate goals on an ongoing basis depending on the market forces. We do have a commitment to this business and I for one don't plan on going elsewhere. With that said in the past year we have seen the interest in using our Cinema cameras in live production explode, so we are paying attention to that as well. We go where we have clients in need of our products. But we're certainly not going away and we're certainly moving forward.
 
Mitch Gross said:
... Let me also tell you a little something about large multinational corporations. We do not function as a single entity but instead as a group of companies. I won't get into great detail, but essentially each group buys and sells with the others. We were purchasing sensors from the sensor manufacturing group, and even if they are no longer a part of Panasonic we will continue to do so. We will both because of existing contracts and because it is smart business for both of us to continue to do so. The fact is that Panasonic also buys from Sony and they also buy from us, and we both often buy from the same third parties. That's just how it works and it kinda doesn't matter who owns what in regard to us having access to technology or the capacity to manufacture our own designs. That stuff is just a bunch of business arrangements...
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Actually, it doesn't work this way. Apple doesn't write software for Microsoft and Daimler doesn't build engines for BMW. There are more more cross-partnerships in mobile devices because most of the components - CPU's/GPU's, screens, sensors - are bought off the shelf anyway and the market is deemed void of collusion between its 115 participating companies. But any company needs to have a long term corporate strategy where every branch is tasked with fitting into that strategy and purchasing a product off a company's other branches at full market prices is not corporate governance but anarchy. In other words, it's completely insane.
 
I'm not getting into the finer details here, basically because it's kinda no one's business how this works. I never said one company purchases from another at full market prices. Of course there are special arrangements. The simple fact is that Panasonic no longer owning that particular sensor manufacturer outright in no way hampers our ability to make our current or future products. That was the point of the question and that is the accurate answer. The rest I will not be sharing, but there are more things in heaven & earth than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
 
Mitch Gross said:
The fact is that Panasonic also buys from Sony and they also buy from us,.. That's just how it works and it kinda doesn't matter who owns what in regard to us having access to technology
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Hmm. Ive always had a totally self invented theory is that Sony have AF fairly nailed and held it back from Nikon and Panny - hence the AF speeds on those cams being slower than my great grandfather. Z6 less so - like they had to give Sony three years free of competion for contractural reasons.

Any future panny (eva2) would need decent AF to even walk onto the field.

to play my old record the EVA 2 should be S35 in MFT mount launched hand in hand with a manual feel zoom that had decent range starting at 24-150FF FOV or 4.7/2/3 FOV.

A sensible way of choosing AF position (not poking the screen or doing whatever Sony do on the FX9) - such a position chooser should be usable while ones eye is in the EVF.

I always like the EVA1 but the canon mount and bad AF did not make it an economically viable swap for the FS7.
 
morgan_moore said:
Hmm. Ive always had a totally self invented theory is that Sony have AF fairly nailed and held it back from Nikon and Panny - hence the AF speeds on those cams being slower than my great grandfather. Z6 less so - like they had to give Sony three years free of competion for contractural reasons.

Any future panny (eva2) would need decent AF to even walk onto the field.

to play my old record the EVA 2 should be S35 in MFT mount launched hand in hand with a manual feel zoom that had decent range starting at 24-150FF FOV or 4.7/2/3 FOV.

A sensible way of choosing AF position (not poking the screen or doing whatever Sony do on the FX9) - such a position chooser should be usable while ones eye is in the EVF.

I always like the EVA1 but the canon mount and bad AF did not make it an economically viable swap for the FS7.
Click to expand...

Since I'm one of those who thought the color rendition, size, weight and versatility of the EVA1 made it far superior to the FS7 for my needs and style of shooting, I'm looking at this from a different perspective. Would I like to have a first-class continuous autofocus on an EVA2? - sure, it would be a nice feature. But look at the lineage of camera families and you may notice that autofocus is seldom found in the higher end models (Amira, Alexa, Venice, etc...). Not that I never use autofocus -- it's great to have it on my GH5s when mounted on a Ronin-S -- but I've been happy with the EVA1 even without it. On the other hand could I actually perform repeatedly accurate focus pulls with the Sony fly-by-wire E-Mount lenses? -- Never!
I'm also a big fan of having stronger lens mounts rather than weaker, so although the locking mount introduced with the FS7ii starts to approach stability, I much prefer the idea of an FZ-style intermediate mount to allow proper lens stability and easy use of PL lenses. For me, going with an MFT mount would be a step backwards.
But above all, I'm hoping that the next generation EVA will maintain the same color look and be able to cut seamlessly with the EVA1 and LT! and maybe have an improved flip-out viewfinder as well...
 
Mitch Gross said:
But we're certainly not going away and we're certainly moving forward.
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Thanks Mitch this is all good news to hear. I learnt something new about *% thing. Interesting? I hadn't realized that Matsush--ita had changed its name to Panasonic. You live and learn!

Chris Young
 
Mitch Gross said:
I'm not getting into the finer details here, basically because it's kinda no one's business how this works. I never said one company purchases from another at full market prices. Of course there are special arrangements. The simple fact is that Panasonic no longer owning that particular sensor manufacturer outright in no way hampers our ability to make our current or future products. That was the point of the question and that is the accurate answer. The rest I will not be sharing, but there are more things in heaven & earth than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
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Most companies outsource some components - BMW buys its transmissions from ZF - but the more you outsource the more control you lose. At some point, you end up with a DeLorean. Panasonic may have a lot of moving parts in the consumer electronics industry but, if its camera business is low on prospects. it's likely to roll cameras into another division. And considering prospects - declining sales, declining margins, plummeting profits - there'll be a major reshuffling of players and names anyway. Sony, Nikon and Canon have 90% of the market. The manufacturers of the other 10% are likely to bow out first.

This doesn't mean Panasonic will stop making switches. But it can outsource those too.


morgan_moore said:
Hmm. Ive always had a totally self invented theory is that Sony have AF fairly nailed and held it back from Nikon and Panny - hence the AF speeds on those cams being slower than my great grandfather. Z6 less so - like they had to give Sony three years free of competion for contractural reasons...
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It's closer to two years but Sony has to cripple its own cameras also, primarily by releasing them with the 8-bit rather than 10-bit codecs.

The consumers obviously benefit from a greater competition but Z6, A7III, fp and S1 are basically the same camera in different mounts, with different features choreographically crippled. It's better than nothing but it still stinks.
 
DLD said:
Sony, Nikon and Canon have 90% of the market. The manufacturers of the other 10% are likely to bow out first.
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A gross simplification. You can't just say "the market." Which market? Panasonic absolutely rules the PTZ business, and that business is HUGE. We also do quite well in the studio camera market. You're looking at the consumer market, which is a very different space.

When Jack Walsh ran GE he famously said that he didn't want the company to be in any business that it wasn't #1 or #2 in. He also cut the bottom 10% of his workforce every year. He grew to regret this mentality because it is the ultimate in short term thinking. There's only so many businesses where you can be on the very top and you can still be highly profitable even if you're not 1 or 2. As for cost cutting there's only so much that can be stripped away before you're hurting the bottom line, not improving it.

Anyway, we're doing just fine thanks. Lots of big plans moving forward.
 
OnSet said:
Since I'm one of those who thought the color rendition, size, weight and versatility of the EVA1 made it far superior to the FS7 for my needs and style of shooting, I'm looking at this from a different perspective. Would I like to have a first-class continuous autofocus on an EVA2? - sure, it would be a nice feature. But look at the lineage of camera families and you may notice that autofocus is seldom found in the higher end models (Amira, Alexa, Venice, etc...). Not that I never use autofocus -- it's great to have it on my GH5s when mounted on a Ronin-S -- but I've been happy with the EVA1 even without it. On the other hand could I actually perform repeatedly accurate focus pulls with the Sony fly-by-wire E-Mount lenses? -- Never!
I'm also a big fan of having stronger lens mounts rather than weaker, so although the locking mount introduced with the FS7ii starts to approach stability, I much prefer the idea of an FZ-style intermediate mount to allow proper lens stability and easy use of PL lenses. For me, going with an MFT mount would be a step backwards.
But above all, I'm hoping that the next generation EVA will maintain the same color look and be able to cut seamlessly with the EVA1 and LT! and maybe have an improved flip-out viewfinder as well...
Click to expand...

FIrstly if the EVA was available when I bought the FS7 I would have been very tempted by it.. but it would not have been available for another two years.. I might be shooting on it very soon as Movi job and Im extactic to be loosing a kg to lug about all day. Not joking that loss of mass is wonderful.

I didnt say the camera was bad or worse than the FS7 (quite the contary) I just said the swap was not economically viable, like the FS7ii was also not viable or the C200 from the POV of an fs7 owner Especially an FS7 owner with MK zooms (not me)


As for the pro cameras not having AF.. I think it is because they cant access it. AF is basically controlled by sony and canon, who are/were not selling it (contary I guess) to Mitches assertion that all tech is available to everyone. I think 'pro' cameras woud take it if was available to them. Arri would be last as they will only use stuff on thier cameras is 100% reliable. Not they dont want it - it is that right now they cant have it.

But for an EVA2 to be successful it needs functioning AF like the FX9 and C500. Its a solo shooter price point camera not a PL pirce point camrera. And for solo shooting/gimbal user AF is a must when your rivals have it. Not that AF is used all the time, or reliable all the time, but there are situations where it is the right thing and you want those situations covered. (wide on a gimbal, telephoto 'walk towards)

MFT (or the other new 'L' mount? which I dont really know) would not ba a step back as it gives so much more flange space vs canon which excludes things like the MK zooms or speed boosters, the canon mount is so innapropriate to S35 and mirrorless use even canon have made a replacement.

Id also love (as I said above) a semi ENG lens to be launched with the camera, being S35 or MFT (a crop mode) could make it light and affordable unlike your typical, but not wide or long enough 18-80 cine zoom.

I agree that poor viewfinders/small monitors mixed with manual focus are a terrible conbination, its my understanding that the EVA1 had that combination. Floppy lens mounts are of course terrible too - :)
 
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morgan_moore said:
As for the pro cameras not having AF.. I think it is because they cant access it. AF is basically controlled by sony and canon, who are/were not selling it (contary I guess) to Mitches assertion that all tech is available to everyone.
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Hmmm, don’t think I said that. What I was trying to say is that Panasonic has access to components and we all sell parts to one another. Software and hardware are two very different things.
 
Mitch Gross said:
Hmmm, don’t think I said that. What I was trying to say is that Panasonic has access to components and we all sell parts to one another. Software and hardware are two very different things.
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You didnt say it Onset did :)

I still think only sony and canon have access to the latest AF because they make it and then sell the older tech to thier rivals.

Im just saying, as this is a thread speculating about the EVA2 is that it needs AF at least as good as the Z6 - its not something Im aware of any Panny having. Wihtout decent AF in the pro solo/small crew sector a camera is a non starter if competing against canon and sony in the '$10k' sector.
 
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