VariCam LT 2.0, EVA2?
- Thread starter Carlos13
- Start date
morgan_moore
Major Contributor
Through this thread I’ve been arguing that the eva2 should stand out by going mft and presenting a smaller camera that differentiates from the fx9 c500 and now 300ii
NorBro
Major Contributor
IMO, somewhere along the years Panasonic lost itself with cinema cameras.
The Varicam's glory days were in the 2000s and it's never really been the same since. The EVA1 was a nice attempt but it's too much money for not enough product.
I mentioned yesterday how the formula for success was simple; stick to what people want.
In Panasonic's case, you have the world's best IBIS and it needs to go inside a cinema camera. And then use a lot of your company's money to improve your AF.
People feel good about paying for top features that work well and various other innovations. Whether it's AF or IBIS or internal RAW or something new like 8K or DGO, they will all justify the higher price tag for many people. No one cares about external recording. Whomever is working on Panasonic's stills cameras needs to be working on their cinema cameras.
The EVA2 - whatever mount it may be - should have no less than 4K/120p and S1H IBIS and Canon/Sony DPAF.
The Varicam's glory days were in the 2000s and it's never really been the same since. The EVA1 was a nice attempt but it's too much money for not enough product.
I mentioned yesterday how the formula for success was simple; stick to what people want.
In Panasonic's case, you have the world's best IBIS and it needs to go inside a cinema camera. And then use a lot of your company's money to improve your AF.
People feel good about paying for top features that work well and various other innovations. Whether it's AF or IBIS or internal RAW or something new like 8K or DGO, they will all justify the higher price tag for many people. No one cares about external recording. Whomever is working on Panasonic's stills cameras needs to be working on their cinema cameras.
The EVA2 - whatever mount it may be - should have no less than 4K/120p and S1H IBIS and Canon/Sony DPAF.
Run&Gun
Veteran
I'd say from the early 2000's until s35 really started to take hold, the tape and P2 Varicam's and HDX-900's ruled supreme. I'm not sure I can think of any of the guys that I know that didn't own at least one of those cameras. They were the swiss army knives of cameras in their day. You could go from shooting a 60P live shot to gathering "locker room sound" to shooting slow-mo to shooting a beautiful sit-down in 24P all with the same camera at the push of a button and all in a perfect, ergonomic, operator friendly package.
I think Panasonic wanted the high-end movie/narrative/serial segment and left the owner-op/network segment that made them, so to speak, out in the cold. I'm sure Mitch probably knows the numbers, but I'd step out on a limb and say more owner/ops owned VariCam's and 900's than rental houses. So many guys I knew(know) owned multiple copies. I accounted for three, just by myself. The v35 and HS ventured too far away from the original and were too expensive by that time(even though Panasonic was selling them to the rental houses for half[or less] of list price) and then the LT was too little too late with a horrible body design to boot. Sony ate Panasonics lunch with the F5 and F55 in the segments where the VariCam's used to rule. A lot of the guys that owned multiple Vari's, now own multiple F's. No one I used to shoot for with my VariCam does anything with the V35, HS or LT, now. And despite the V35 and LT eventually making big in-roads in narrative, especially for Netflix Originals, I've only seen one or two LT's and one HS in the wild.
NorBro
Major Contributor
I would love to be a fly on the wall and see/listen to some of these meetings these people have when making decisions. Like in Panasonic's case (because we are talking about them), I don't really think about the higher end systems like the 35 or HS because everyone's using studio money for them, but I cannot understand how you can release the LT for $16,500 when the FS7 had already been on the market for a solid 2 years or so for $8,000.
It had to be one of the dumbest decisions in camera history.
It had to be one of the dumbest decisions in camera history.
Run&Gun
Veteran
Yes, I'd love to hear those, too. I know Mitch will come on and say, "That's all super secrete proprietary blah, blah, blah...". I'm not really asking, I'd just love to know for my own nerdy curiosity, especially working in this business where we get to see so much 'behind-the-curtain/how-the-sausage-is-made' stuff. Anyway...
I wonder how much the body factors into it, because the LT is built like a tank compared to the Fs7.
That was a topic in the old AF-100 forum like six years ago. Panasonic, obviously, decided to leave the MFT in the GH series. Which are video-centric DSLR style cameras. They also make camcorders galore. But they punted here.
Meanwhile BMD made an MFT camera ... that also looks like a DSLR. Go figure.
morgan_moore
Major Contributor
I’ve always been a fan of the gh5 chip with Nd and xlr camera.
What is needed though is a professional mft (mount) zoom.
What BM have done, while admirable, has never fitted into my holes even though I’ve shot with them loads. Mainly due to lack of Nd.
What is needed though is a professional mft (mount) zoom.
What BM have done, while admirable, has never fitted into my holes even though I’ve shot with them loads. Mainly due to lack of Nd.
morgan_moore
Major Contributor
I might
But those ursa minis are about twice the mass or more of an Eva
Heavier than my fs7 and no af
The cam I’m after has
A mft mount
A professional zoom
Nd
Low mass
Af
Xlr
That seems to me to be the Eva2
You run around your event with the zoom and do your sit down interviews with a Voigylamder 25 wide open
Mark Broadbent
Member
I've been extremely happy with my LT and EVA. Both have paid for themselves over the last few years. With that though without a hint of Panasonic introducing anything in the full frame world anytime soon I find myself testing a C500ii next week for a few days. I was hoping there may be some hints of the future at NAB (if it happened) however all silent on that front.
Although I run PL glass the majority of time, the thought of throwing on an AF lens and running with a little gimbal solo is very appealing. Add in a the option of raw and its a very tasty sounding camera. Be a shame to jump ship but it may well be time.
Although I run PL glass the majority of time, the thought of throwing on an AF lens and running with a little gimbal solo is very appealing. Add in a the option of raw and its a very tasty sounding camera. Be a shame to jump ship but it may well be time.
G
Guest
Guest
After getting to use the LT not too long ago, i was pretty impressed with the old boi. I didn’t feel any of the new sensors were significantly better than the s35 Varicam sensor. Maybe in marginal ways, yes, but i’d be hard pressed to move on, especially this year. Sure a lot of good announcements, but almost like they caught up to the IQ of Arri, Red, F55, and Varicam, rather than surpassed them. Maybe without Covid, but with Covid and all, what would be your reasons to switch to any of the recent offerings? AF? FF35? Just curious. As much maligned as the LT is on forums, in the real world, that sensor is pretty nice.
Mark Broadbent
Member
The LT is by far the best camera I've owned. For me personally I'm on the lookout for a change for two primary reasons - firstly full frame is very much in demand in some of the more commercial side of my work. The second point is size. I spend a lot of time on planes around the world and there are many times where an LT is simply too big and bulky. I've been taking my EVA on these trips and it's pretty good but not really up there with build reliability. In just a 2 week shoot my hand grip locked up and cant be rotated, and an SDI connector broke. It was a tough environment however the Varicam has seen a lot more action with barely an issue. If a full frame LT popped up in a form factor that is closer to EVA than LT I'd have a deposit down in a heart beat. I just fear that such a camera is a long way off.
AF is a happy bonus, not essential in any way for me.
morgan_moore
Major Contributor
AF AF AF.
and some hope of less glitches bugs and stupid design errors.
and hopefully and affordable zoom lens that was not awful
and hopefully reduction of mass
morgan_moore
Major Contributor
There seems somehow that AF is becoming more important and mass too (partly because I now have a Movi)
Its partly because I seem to work with some directors who want the camera moving a lot to add interest to thier lack of diraction of actors maybe.
I dont seem to have trouble when I direct as I always have a second agle if focus is dropped. This is what I was taught; have a second angle - have coverage - have Broll. Never do something where you do have another option.
Its partly because I seem to work with some directors who want the camera moving a lot to add interest to thier lack of diraction of actors maybe.
I dont seem to have trouble when I direct as I always have a second agle if focus is dropped. This is what I was taught; have a second angle - have coverage - have Broll. Never do something where you do have another option.
I might
But those ursa minis are about twice the mass or more of an Eva
Heavier than my fs7 and no af
The cam I’m after has
A mft mount
A professional zoom
Nd
Low mass
Af
Xlr
That seems to me to be the Eva2
You run around your event with the zoom and do your sit down interviews with a Voigylamder 25 wide open
I'm curious Sam... I know this is your wishing.... but if such an animal existed... an MFT mount with really good AF....are there existing lenses for such animal that would cover that really sweet range of say, s35 equiv f.o.v. of something like 12 - 200mm?
morgan_moore
Major Contributor
There is not.
I think it unlikely to get to 200 but anything beyond 100 would be great. (on an MFT chip)
I have said in this and other threads that the EVA2 should be conceived as a professional low mass RnG/wedding/actuality/doc camera with a removable zoom lens to be launched with the EVA2 and sold as a bundle with the EVA2.
Should ideally be built with pro input
Most likely such a lens would cost about $3k (being reasonable - of course Id like it for $500!). Such a zoom may only cover 3k of the 4k image area (with auto upscaling) but would have some kind of semi adult manual focus and build (about the same as a white canon L or pro nikon) and of course decent af and parfocality
The AF and parfocality (and correction) could partly be electronic like sony hasselblad and others
Such a lens could be mixed with voiglander primes like the 25 0.9 which would be used for interviews and beauty Broll.
I think such a camera would hold a unique place in the market. Full of designe compromises that are not headline grabbing but add up to a professional package.
The FX6 and 28-135 is probably the best chance in the near future (I dont like 28!)
I think it unlikely to get to 200 but anything beyond 100 would be great. (on an MFT chip)
I have said in this and other threads that the EVA2 should be conceived as a professional low mass RnG/wedding/actuality/doc camera with a removable zoom lens to be launched with the EVA2 and sold as a bundle with the EVA2.
Should ideally be built with pro input
Most likely such a lens would cost about $3k (being reasonable - of course Id like it for $500!). Such a zoom may only cover 3k of the 4k image area (with auto upscaling) but would have some kind of semi adult manual focus and build (about the same as a white canon L or pro nikon) and of course decent af and parfocality
The AF and parfocality (and correction) could partly be electronic like sony hasselblad and others
Such a lens could be mixed with voiglander primes like the 25 0.9 which would be used for interviews and beauty Broll.
I think such a camera would hold a unique place in the market. Full of designe compromises that are not headline grabbing but add up to a professional package.
The FX6 and 28-135 is probably the best chance in the near future (I dont like 28!)
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G
Guest
Guest
We should make a chart of ideal camera segments and the feature sets within each.
Panasonic's AF on any of their cameras is far below Canon's and Sony's despite the non-proprietary AI AF being almost perfect on those two other brands. On a corporate level, the company split its small sensor - mostly 1" - camcorder line from its MFT and FF hybrids and pro units. From a technical perspective, they could have intertwined them but, I assume, that they don't see these markets being lucrative enough to enter.
PS. The faux NAB will have streaming events in mid May.
PS. The faux NAB will have streaming events in mid May.