Unprocessed RGB REDCODE 2K

Tom Lowe

Tom Lowe

Well-known member
Hehe. Trying to keep all these shooting options clear in my head. So, I hope I am getting this right.... tell me where I am mistaken....

1. I can shoot Unprocessed RGB REDCODE at 2K.

2. Shooting Unprocessed RGB REDCODE 2K will allow me RAW-like flexibility to adjust exposure, color temp, etc, in post (minus several things inlcuding demosaicing) . Much more flexibility than shooting on a traditional video camera which "burns in" color temp, exposure, etc.

3. Shooting Unprocessed RGB REDCODE 2K will allow me to overcrank the Red up to 60fps while recording "onboard", ie, to the Red Drive.

4. Shooting Unprocessed RGB REDCODE 2K is scaled down from 4K, so it uses a large portion of the sensor allowing for use of 35mm cine lenses, with standard 35mm DOF.

Does that sound right?
 
Yeah baby... man this unprocessed RGB is a winer!

To copy donatelo's statement : "RED will be too good and it will be true!!!!"
 
Stuart English said:
Yes, those are all true statements Tom.
Click to expand...

:thumbup:

I forgot to ask, do you guys have any kind of ballpark idea about the data rate for Unprocessed RGB REDCODE 2K? Around 35Mbps? More? Less? This is wavelet compression, right?
 
From what I remember, the white balance is also baked in. Personally I am planning to shoot everything in 4K Redcode raw and if I do have a shot that needs slower than 30, I will shoot that in 2K RGB just for that shot.

From what I've seen in the scaling the 2K footage back to 4K if I actually print or project at 4K--it will definately hold up, and how many super slow motion shots can you pack into your movie without putting the audience to sleep?

Why sacrifice the flexability of 95% of your shots in your movie just for a few slow motion shots?

Also, if you realize that the bulk of the theater will not be able to see the difference (from other posts they percieve detail in the sub 2K range for most beyond the first 5 rows) and once your movie goes to DVD the best they will see is at 1080p on HDDVD.

Sure, if you are shooting a constant ramping music video, shoot 2K, but if you are shooting a feature go with 4K Redcode Raw-it's the only way to fly!

Thom
 
I agree. If I want slo-mo, 2K Redcode RGB will work, but everything else should be in 4K Redcode RAW.

One question: Does on-board recording require the purchase of a RED-DRIVE? I've heard rumors that the camera will come with Flash memory built in, and that one can use that to record up to 18 minutes of 4K Redcode RAW. Is this true?
 
nice summary, tom...for me everthing is up in the air...but leaning more towards 2k workflow...still TBD, until everything is all said & done...
 
dewman I am going to look carefully at my script to see just how necessary overcranking is going to be. Otherwuse, I will shoot my whole feature in 4K REDCODE RAW compressed.

I don't think I will try to mix and match 4K with 2K, because my end product is 4K. I am shooting at 4K to future-proof my film, because I believe that 4K LCDs will be the new gold standard for home theaters 5 or 10 years down the road.

The only question that is still floating around that might effect my plans for shooting, as far as I know, is whether there might be a chance that 4K REDCODE RAW compressed could be windowed/cropped to a 2.40 aspect ratio, thus making the amount of data that needs to be compressed and stored "onboard" far more managable. As far as I know, Red is working on this possibility. We haven't heard either way yet, as far as I know.
 
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While on the subject of slow-mo. Anybody have any experince with slow motion post-tools? Stuff like pixel motion etc...? Just wondering if shooting 60fps and strechting that further in post with some modern tools can be a benefit rather than running around with a big raid trying to shoot 120fps 2k windowed... Any thoughts, hints?
 
[SIZE=+0]I took the 4K stills, downconverted them to 2K then scaled them back up to 4K and they looked pretty damn close to my eyes.[/SIZE]
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[SIZE=+0]In the end, though, nothing will replace actual camera tests with actual footage and see if you can tell the difference bouncing between the different footage. But I look at it this way--in film you choose different stocks with different sensitivities/levels of grain for different situations within the same movie--it should be okay if digital mixes, too.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+0][/SIZE]
[SIZE=+0]For me, to truly future proof the footage, shoot everything at 4K Redcode Raw, and try the ramps where you need them at 2K if necessary, but always back them up with 24 frame alternatives at full 4K. Sometimes your "amazing shots" in your head end up as "what was I thinking shots?" in the editing room and you'll welcome the backup. [/SIZE]
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[SIZE=+0]Then, in the end, if it doesn't look good to mix--downconvert the rest of the footage to 2K so it all matches then you'll be right where you were thinking of starting with 2K RGB (only you've got to play around with white balance)[/SIZE]
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[SIZE=+0]For film out, you can then scale everything at the lasers at 4K (similar to printing a 2K intermediary). [/SIZE]
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[SIZE=+0]As for 4K home theaters, with the actors struggling to have their complexion look good on 1080p in the home I can only imagine how freaked out they would be for home theater's to go to 4K![/SIZE]
[SIZE=+0][/SIZE]
[SIZE=+0]The great thing with Red is that we are actually discussing the pros and cons of shooting 2K vs 4K while for others 4K is not even on the table. or should I say--it's not even in the same zip code![/SIZE]

Thom
 
jrv3034 said:
One question: Does on-board recording require the purchase of a RED-DRIVE? I've heard rumors that the camera will come with Flash memory built in, and that one can use that to record up to 18 minutes of 4K Redcode RAW. Is this true?
Click to expand...

RED-DRIVE and RED-FLASH are "on board", not "built in"--meaning you attach it to the cage or rails. Both are separable from the barrel. Both are subject to upgrades, too. The development terminology is a bit confusing.
 
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lpcvideo1 said:
RED-DRIVE and RED-FLASH are "on board", not "built in"--meaning you attach it to the cage or rails. Both are separable from the barrel. Both are subject to upgrades, too. The development terminology is a bit confusing.
Click to expand...
True, but there is also "built in" flash in the camera, and you can record 4K REDCODE RAW to that. So one could get out and start shooting in 4K without the drive. What we don't know yet is the capacity of the built-in flash (and therefore how much 4K can be recorded in-camera). But jrv3034's assertions are correct.
 
Haakon said:
True, but there is also "built in" flash in the camera, and you can record 4K REDCODE RAW to that. So one could get out and start shooting in 4K without the drive. What we don't know yet is the capacity of the built-in flash (and therefore how much 4K can be recorded in-camera). But jrv3034's assertions are correct.
Click to expand...

So I take there is confirmation of this? I must have missed it. If this can be confirmed with a link, or by somebody on the Red team, that would be great.

Thanks
 
"This URL will help to explain why talent should not worry too much about the greater resolution of a RED 4K camera v's your typical HD camera."

http://www.cambridgeincolour.com/tut.../sharpness.htm

Thanks Stuart

tut_sharpness_resolutionex.jpg


I wonder if I'm the only one who favours the middle image of the old geezers shirt button over the other two?
 
Stuart English said:
This URL will help to explain why talent should not worry too much about the greater resolution of a RED 4K camera v's your typical HD camera.

http://www.cambridgeincolour.com/tutorials/sharpness.htm
Click to expand...

Hi Stuart,

Absolutely correct, I always turn detail off when working with existing HD cameras, If the camera and lenses don't have the needed resolution it's time to find another camera!

Best wishes to the Red team.

Stephen
 
Blue said:
I wonder if I'm the only one who favours the middle image of the old geezers shirt button over the other two?
Click to expand...

No. I am with you on that, the lowest one just looks.... pixelly

Martin
 
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