Un-sellable A7s?

Maybe this should act as a cautionary tale for those thinking about dumping their year-old A7S for the next new camera--THAT camera is likely going to drop a similar percentage a year from now too.
 
If only everyone was as craft-obsessed as they are gear-obsessed. 14 stops of dynamic range isn't going to make your story more interesting.

Tomorrow's camera isn't going to help you make today's film.
 
Is OK to gear-obsessed *and* craft-obsessed? I still try to make each project I do better than the last, and feel like I'm always learning. I avoided jumping on the 4k bandwagon for several years now, but finally feel like there's a form factor and picture quality I'm familiar with, like a lot, and works internally, so I jumped. But I have to admit to loving the gear, it's a problem.
 
Yeah it will go down more. Here in netherlands ( you lucky americans always pay much les for just about everything than the rest of us ) it has come down to 1400 euros and will go down more like the a7 wich sells for 700-800

canon and nikon cameras dont go down much and will hold their value pretty well
 
scoutsbrother said:
Is OK to gear-obsessed *and* craft-obsessed? I still try to make each project I do better than the last, and feel like I'm always learning. I avoided jumping on the 4k bandwagon for several years now, but finally feel like there's a form factor and picture quality I'm familiar with, like a lot, and works internally, so I jumped. But I have to admit to loving the gear, it's a problem.
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Now, THIS is an interesting question to debate. ;)

To me, the answer depends greatly on where you fit in the filmmaking world. I've never met a cinematographer who wasn't obsessed with lights and what they can do. I've worked with many who obsess about glass, old and new. But I've also met very few cinematographers obsessed with cameras. To them, the camera is one of the least important elements in the equation. Why? Because when you know how to light the way they do, 13 stops vs. 14 stops becomes a much less important distinction.

Similarly, the best (narrative) directors I've met and worked with couldn't care less what camera they're shooting on. It's not their concern. They work with the production team and the DP to set the "look" they want, and from there it's in the DP's hands. Directors should be obsessed with story and performance, and little else. (This from a guy who has fallen way short in this area more than once.)

If you're not a "director," but more of a videographer, a one-man band shooting pretty pictures, then being a bit obsessive about your gear might not be such a problem. Here, the focus isn't on storytelling, but on the straight-up quality of the images. And folks like this are (usually) not lighting much of anything. So having an extra stop might matter. But then we're not really talking about "craft" as playing a huge role here, are we? If your work is beautiful, artistic, and moving to the audience, and you swap a 13-stop camera for a 14-stop camera, have you developed in your "craft?" I would say no, you've simply taken advantage of an advance in technology. And does that extra stop make your work MORE moving to the audience?

These are all interesting questions, and I don't want to sound like the old guy standing in his front yard yelling at the kids to get off his lawn. But for a long, long time, filmmakers and storytellers have been making beautiful, engaging films with lesser cameras than we now have at our disposal. We have seen an explosion of highly-capable, low-cost digital cinema cameras flood the market in the last four years. And yet, if you look at the "User Films" section of the site, and at the recent DVX Fest entries, you'll see less and less work getting posted, with a drop in feedback from other users. We see less traffic to the Cinematography and Directing forums, while people flood the camera-specific forums. When all we had was the DVX, people were far more engaged in craft, because they realized they needed to be to get the most out of the tool available. Now, there's a new camera sub-forum every other week, while cobwebs grow in the craft forums.

All of this is to say that, yes, the tools you use are absolutely important. But knowing the craft, whether it be lighting, sound, writing, etc., will always allow your work to stand apart, and means you'll be able to get more out of a lesser camera than others using the "latest and greatest."
 
Stephen Mick said:
I've also met very few cinematographers obsessed with cameras. To them, the camera is one of the least important elements in the equation.
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I think it depends in the world you circulate in. If you come from 400ISO stock with 10stops and just light everything like that is what you are shooting with (and that will usually mean a wagon of HMI) then.. who cares about the camera.

But if you a shooting without that wagon of HMI then.. the camera becomes worth thinking about.

To me 10bit log (or fatter) make a huge difference to what I can do given a small lights package compared to a narrow DR camera.

S
 
morgan_moore said:
I think it depends in the world you circulate in. If you come from 400ISO stock with 10stops and just light everything like that is what you are shooting with (and that will usually mean a wagon of HMI) then.. who cares about the camera.

But if you a shooting without that wagon of HMI then.. the camera becomes worth thinking about.

To me 10bit log (or fatter) make a huge difference to what I can do given a small lights package compared to a narrow DR camera.

S
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Agreed, Sam. But this is also a bit of an oversimplification. Most people here aren't choosing between Kodak Vision3 and an Alexa. They're comparing the Blackmagic Pocket Camera with the A7S, or the GH4 with the C100. And sure, there are specific features (log, raw, etc.) that one offers that the other may not. But the GH4 doesn't require a trailer full of Arri M18s to get a great image. Any of these modern cameras allow for a smaller package of lighting than we've needed before (some more than others). In the end, I'll take a C100 in the hands of a craft-knowledgable DP over even an Alexa in the hands of someone who's more gear-focused any day of the week.

The camera is an important tool for the cinematographer, but it's only one of many.
 
Yep .. basically I agree cameras come in bunches that are 'all the same'

DSLR
8bit video
10bit video
12-14 bit video

I think '4k' consumer cameras are a bit sharper than 'HD' consumer cameras,

BMC sit in an interesting place of maleable but low DR file!
Canon sort of look pretty using a canned look
Sony are practical and log is great.
I think the sony 7/5/55 are a bit soft above 60p
Above 60 you need to investigate the big boys.

S
 
Stephen Mick said:
These are all interesting questions, and I don't want to sound like the old guy standing in his front yard yelling at the kids to get off his lawn. But for a long, long time, filmmakers and storytellers have been making beautiful, engaging films with lesser cameras than we now have at our disposal. We have seen an explosion of highly-capable, low-cost digital cinema cameras flood the market in the last four years. And yet, if you look at the "User Films" section of the site, and at the recent DVX Fest entries, you'll see less and less work getting posted, with a drop in feedback from other users. We see less traffic to the Cinematography and Directing forums, while people flood the camera-specific forums. When all we had was the DVX, people were far more engaged in craft, because they realized they needed to be to get the most out of the tool available. Now, there's a new camera sub-forum every other week, while cobwebs grow in the craft forums.
Click to expand...

I agree with this. I find that I'm coming to the site and hitting "New Posts" and following along that way, just not being very thoughtful about it. I'm going to make a deliberate effort enter the forums through the categories and check out the craft forums more regularly. I enjoy the gear talk too but I could use much more conversation around script development and craft where I'm at right now.
 
CharlesPapert said:
Maybe this should act as a cautionary tale for those thinking about dumping their year-old A7S for the next new camera--THAT camera is likely going to drop a similar percentage a year from now too.
Click to expand...
There's sort of a wave of 4K cameras coming out, each outdoing each other in these 3-6 month intervals. At some point, it's going to plateau, since we're rapidly approaching the (average consumer) display limitation. I mean, once you got your 13-14 stops and 4K, getting to 15-stops and 6K represents a very marginal improvement.

Also, FWIW, Sony wants to make Full Frame affordable, which likely means a very aggressive pricing stance both in stills and video. The greatest bang-for-the-buck increase will obviously come from the high end pro gear, with $10,000 cameras of today having the specs of $50,000 cameras from yesterday.
 
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