Two Beginner Questions on AF100

T

Tyler Thomas

Member
I purchased a DVX100B about 5 years ago, and I have been using it ever since to make short films that I mostly share with friends and family. I am seriously considering upgrading to the AF100. I was wondering if anyone could help me with the following two beginner questions:

1. I know almost nothing about lenses. I think I would like to purchase some native 4/3 mount lenses. Could anyone recommend 2 or 3 good general purposes lenses that would likely meet the majority of my needs shooting short films? Also, should I consider 3 zoom lenses because they are more versatile?

2. I currently use Adobe Premier Pro CS 4 for editing. Can anyone tell me if this version of Adobe Premier Pro is completely compatible with the AF100, or will I need to upgrade to the new version of Premier?

Thanks for any help!
 
Well on the lens size of things don't feel like you need to stick to 4/3 lenses. Invest in something that you can use on another camera if you wish. On the cheaper end are some older Nikon Nikkor lenses which I use. They're stick super sharp and while not the best lenses in the world are readily available used online in various focal lengths and most of the time very fast. Almost every lens I have is F2-F2.8 except for my 200mm. Zoom lenses can be great but I'm not sure having 3 of them as your set would be smart. Primes are a better option IMO with zooms used when needed. You could consider one big zoom that would cover a lot of your range then get some solid primes to balance out your kit. The AF100 has a pretty substantial crop on the lenses you buy, so you can almost double any mm you buy and that's essentially the lens you have. A 50mm will always have the dynamics of a 50mm lens, but the FOV is cropped to something closer to an 80-90mm.

On the Adobe end I don't know. No matter what you're likely going to be transcoding the footage so I'm sure CS4 will work fine. You may need something else to log the footage and to transcode it to be compatible. I take it you're on a PC?
 
Premiere Pro CS5 supports native AVCHD files so if you upgraded to that you wouldnt need to transcode (as long as you can utilize its mercury playback engine)
 
Thanks for the info. I have considered renting some lenses for a weekend to see what I like. I found a kit on LensRentals.com. They combined the following lenses:

7-14 mm f4
14 mm f2.5
20 mm f1.7
45 mm f2
18 mm f3.5 fisheye

Do you think that would be a pretty good sampling to try out for a weekend?

Also, yes, I do use a PC.
 
Tyler Thomas said:
1. I know almost nothing about lenses. I think I would like to purchase some native 4/3 mount lenses. Could anyone recommend 2 or 3 good general purposes lenses that would likely meet the majority of my needs shooting short films? Also, should I consider 3 zoom lenses because they are more versatile?
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I would go with other lenses than native 4/3 sensor lenses. Most have electronic controls that are annoying, and if you ever want to upgrade to another camera with a larger sensor, like s35 or FF (ie; sony f3, red or 5D) you will need all new lenses. i would look into getting a good set of used manual nikons and a good adapter. You can pretty much mount them on anything, they are reasonably priced, especially used if you look around, and have great image quality. I bought all 7 of my nikon mount primes covering 11-135mm in great condition (I bought them used separately), with all my lenes f/2.8 or faster, with the 35, 50 and 85 at f/1.4, for around $2k. Really, the ability to use any lens with this camera is one of its biggest features, so now is the time to get good lenses that will last you well into the future.

If you were going to just have 3 lenses, I would recommend a 20mm (I kinda miss having a 20mm in my kit), 35mm, and 50mm and/or 85mm. I could do 95% of my work with just those four lenses. Specifically, I would be considering the 20mm f/1.7 lumix lens (I know it is m4/3, but it is a pretty good deal for a f/1.7 prime so worth it at that lenght... never used it though but have heard some decent things), a 35mm f/1.4 (I like the nikkor AI manual focus lens, Samyang just released a $350 f/1.4 that looks promissing though), a Nikkor 50mm f/1.4 (you can pick this lens up used for $150, they made millions of them, it is a great lens. Get a good hood for it though), and the bower 85mm f/1.4 (great lens, and comparatively as sharp as the nikkor f/1.4, but only $330 compared to the ~$1400 nikkor. I LOVE mine.)

I have the following lenses in my Nikon kit and I love them:

11-16 f/2.8 G/DX (Tokina) (As wide as you will ever reasonably need)
24mm f/2.8 non-AI (kinda wish it was a stop faster sometimes in low light)
35mm f/1.4 AI (It is an older design, but one of my favorite nikkors still)
50mm f/1.4 AI (Shot this by candle light with it)
85mm f/1.4 AIS (Bower branded) (my goto portrait lens, I love it and used it for most of the interviews in my reel.)
135mm f/2.8 AI

(BTW: The 7th lens the is a 28mm f/2.8 3rd party brand nikon mounted prime, I never carry it as I have a 24 and 35 mm nikkor, so no need for it really, and I have it on semi-permeant loan to my partner. It gets nice images though. I used it for the purple zumba jacket/elevator shots in my reel.)
 
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KyleProhaska said:
The AF100 has a pretty substantial crop on the lenses you buy, so you can almost double any mm you buy and that's essentially the lens you have. A 50mm will always have the dynamics of a 50mm lens, but the FOV is cropped to something closer to an 80-90mm.
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Actually, its a 2x crop, so a 50mm FOV is 100mm...
 
eheath said:
Actually, its a 2x crop, so a 50mm FOV is 100mm...
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Depends on what you are comparing it to. 2x smaller FOV than a FF sized still camera sensor, but the FOV is verry similar to a s35 camera (which is most commonly used in film) I think the 'crop' so to speak is around 1.6 or 1.4 compared to s35. (I find my 35mm on my Af100 has approx the same FOV as 50mm on our s35 RED-MX.

That everyone compares frame sizes on motion cameras with FF still cameras as a basis is one of the major problems I have with the whole crop factor thing (among other issues...)
 
I have a different take on this. You are probably used to work with a 'one lens does it all' and I'm not sure you would find working with primes too practical - constantly changing lenses back and forth is a pain.

Like many here, I work mainly with primes. It's my profession and I have to look for the best possible image I can afford. However, if there was to be a a reasonably priced f/1.4 zoom with the clarity and behaviour of a prime lens (i.e. non breathing) absolutely nobody would ever use primes. Obviously such a thing does not exist so must of us go the primes way, but zooms are much more practical and faster to work with.

If you don't make money out of this and you simply enjoy the art and pleasure of making films, go for zooms. Olympus do really nice 4/3 zooms (you still need the micro 4/3 adaptor); their high end ones are really fast too (f/2). Panasonic has native micro 4/3 zooms - not the fastest, but very affordable and decent image. The electronic controls are annoying, but you can work around it.

You'll find that fast zooms are more expensive and limited in their range (7-14mm, 14-35mm, 35-100mm, etc) so one might not be enough to cover all your needs. On the other hand, slower zooms offer a wider range (12-60mm, 50-200mm, or the all mighty 14-140mm by Panasonic). It all depends on your budget and the final aesthetic you are after (for super shallow depth of field you will need faster zooms).

Personally, for the price, I would go for the Panasonic 14-140mm as it will give you the chance to work in a similar way to the DVX100 (one lens does it all). See how you like it and take it from there.

All the best,

D.
 
By the way Tyler, apologies if you already know this and I am just sounding like a patronising idiot - when talking about fast/slow lenses people are referring to the maximum wide aperture of the lens. The wider the maximum aperture, the faster the lens. For a prime lens, anything from f/2 and below is considered fast (f/2, f/1.4, f/1.2). For zooms, f/2.8 is already quite fast and f/2 is a dream.
 
AVCHD is natively supported out-of-the-box by Adobe in Premiere CS4 and Premiere Elements 7 onwards.
 
Tyler Thomas said:
I purchased a DVX100B about 5 years ago, and I have been using it ever since to make short films that I mostly share with friends and family. I am seriously considering upgrading to the AF100. I was wondering if anyone could help me with the following two beginner questions:

1. I know almost nothing about lenses. I think I would like to purchase some native 4/3 mount lenses. Could anyone recommend 2 or 3 good general purposes lenses that would likely meet the majority of my needs shooting short films? Also, should I consider 3 zoom lenses because they are more versatile?

2. I currently use Adobe Premier Pro CS 4 for editing. Can anyone tell me if this version of Adobe Premier Pro is completely compatible with the AF100, or will I need to upgrade to the new version of Premier?

Thanks for any help!
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I use the following lenses with a Novoflex adapter Canon FD glass is cheap and very good and completely mechanical:

Canon FD 24mm f2.8
Voightlander 25mm f.95 This is my favorite lens!
Lumix 14-40 f 4-5.6 (not very good)
Canon FD 35mm f2.0
Canon FD 50mm f1.4
Canon FD 70-210 f4
Canon FL 135 f2.8

I have a cheap EOS adapter no aperture control so until I get my Birger adapter I don't use my L's much, but I can by setting the iris on a 5DmkII or 7D.

I have a good collection of L's, my favorite will probably be the 24-70 f2.8 and 70-200 f2.8 IS.
 
dracalat said:
Personally, for the price, I would go for the Panasonic 14-140mm as it will give you the chance to work in a similar way to the DVX100 (one lens does it all). See how you like it and take it from there.
D.
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I have to disagree here...
It is not the same as the lens in the DVX. It is not a parafocal zoom (meaning it wont hold focus while you zoom), and is not a constant aperture (and I have heard the autofocus is ok at best, never really use AF though, so...). If you are expecting a DVX/HVX style lens you will be disappointed. Not to mention the f/4-f/5.8 is really limiting on a AF100. While that lens covers a wide range of focal lengths, in really limits the potential of the camera in alot of other ways.
 
Quick question, I have the voigtlander 25mm but when I focus set it to infinity, somethings closer to me are still out of focus, is this what happens with all lenses or am i doing something wrong? Excuse my ignorance, im a dvx 100 user to and just got the camera and this lens last week! Exciting times though!
 
Oliver Rush said:
Depends on what you are comparing it to. 2x smaller FOV than a FF sized still camera sensor, but the FOV is verry similar to a s35 camera (which is most commonly used in film) I think the 'crop' so to speak is around 1.6 or 1.4 compared to s35. (I find my 35mm on my Af100 has approx the same FOV as 50mm on our s35 RED-MX.

That everyone compares frame sizes on motion cameras with FF still cameras as a basis is one of the major problems I have with the whole crop factor thing (among other issues...)
Click to expand...

yeah I was referring to FF. when people talk about crop they're usually referring to FF not to s35 or other sensors that are already crop sensor.
 
taras4444 said:
Quick question, I have the voigtlander 25mm but when I focus set it to infinity, somethings closer to me are still out of focus, is this what happens with all lenses or am i doing something wrong? Excuse my ignorance, im a dvx 100 user to and just got the camera and this lens last week! Exciting times though!
Click to expand...

Well the whole idea of a large f-stop and a larger than 1/3" sensor is selective focus.

So yes indeed if you focus on infinity with a large f-stop objects close to the camera will be out of focus, and visa versa. That is one of the big reasons we use the AF100 and other "large sensor" cameras.

I am not going to go into details here, there is lots of info about DOF (deph of field) on the web.

Out of curiosity why did you buy the AF100 and the Voightlander lens?
 
I wasn't trying to be think or anything was just a question! I bought it because my research has shown its a beautiful camera and can give me an excellent film look for feature filmes and music videos. I was just wondering if there was a way or lens for a deep focus, as I've seen films with deep focus with the majority of both foreground and back ground in focus, or if it really was just this selective. I've only previously used fixed lens cameras so this is all new to me still.
 
eheath said:
yeah I was referring to FF. when people talk about crop they're usually referring to FF not to s35 or other sensors that are already crop sensor.
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FF35 could be considered a crop sensor compared to a camera such as a Phantom 65 (which has a 65mm sized sensor). It is all relative. My point is that s35 is not 'already a crop sensor'... it is s35 (which just happens to be pretty much the standard for motion pictures). Sensor size is sensor size, focal lenghts are focal lenghts... they come together as a specific FOV, but comparing it as a crop is a real misnomer. You would not refer to the 5D as a crop sensor, but it is next to a Hasselblad medium format camera in the still world. Different frame sizes, such as s35 and 2/3" are standards for motion motion recording, just as medium/large format and ff35 are the frame sizes for the professional photo-world. They all have their specific applications (usually art/commercials/film vs. journalism and sports). But you dont refer to either as a crop frame camera when talking about the other. You just learn which lens lengths correspond to the whatever FOV you are looking to get with that sensor.

I am getting bogged down in semantics though... I just hate the whole 'crop factor' thing with a passion.
 
taras4444 said:
I wasn't trying to be think or anything was just a question! I bought it because my research has shown its a beautiful camera and can give me an excellent film look for feature filmes and music videos. I was just wondering if there was a way or lens for a deep focus, as I've seen films with deep focus with the majority of both foreground and back ground in focus, or if it really was just this selective. I've only previously used fixed lens cameras so this is all new to me still.
Click to expand...

Of course you an get deep focus with the AF100. Even with a 25mm lens. At f16 it will be sharp from 4' (1.2m) to infinity.

If you use a wider lens you can get even deeper DOF.

You will not get as deep a focus for any given angle of view as you would with a 1/3" imager camera.

You actually get more DOF on the MTF sensor than a super35 (35mm motion film standard). There is lots of good info on this on the WEB.

You need a good understanding of the effect of sensor size/f-stop/field of view/focal length to understand how this all works. Once you understand the basics it will all make sense.

There is a great app DOFMaster for the Iphone that clearly shows different combination of lens f-stop and camera sensor. There are probably many others as well for different smart phones or computers.

This is really fun stuff to learn and it is really logical once you get the hang of it.
 
Oliver Rush said:
FF35 could be considered a crop sensor compared to a camera such as a Phantom 65 (which has a 65mm sized sensor). It is all relative. My point is that s35 is not 'already a crop sensor'... it is s35 (which just happens to be pretty much the standard for motion pictures). Sensor size is sensor size, focal lenghts are focal lenghts... they come together as a specific FOV, but comparing it as a crop is a real misnomer. You would not refer to the 5D as a crop sensor, but it is next to a Hasselblad medium format camera in the still world. Different frame sizes, such as s35 and 2/3" are standards for motion motion recording, just as medium/large format and ff35 are the frame sizes for the professional photo-world. They all have their specific applications (usually art/commercials/film vs. journalism and sports). But you dont refer to either as a crop frame camera when talking about the other. You just learn which lens lengths correspond to the whatever FOV you are looking to get with that sensor.

I am getting bogged down in semantics though... I just hate the whole 'crop factor' thing with a passion.
Click to expand...

Only point I was trying to make is normally thats what people are referring to, is FF aka 5d or photo film. when you start saying the 25mm has a 80-90mm FOV, it confused people because everyone knows the af100 as a 2x crop. sure, its relative, but in these discussions on this forum, 99 out of 100 people refer to FF as 1.
 
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