Turn Key Additional Accessories Cost

David Saraceno

David Saraceno

Moderator
Staff member
Apart from no p2 cards, I believe that the bundle provides everything but:

battery
battery charger
tripod adapter
AC adapter

What additional costs are these using value purchases rather buying from Panasonic or more expensive name brands?

thanks
 
HPX300 standard accessories are:
Fujinon 17x zoom Lens
Shoulder Strap
Anton/Bauer Gold Mount Plate

The QR Tripod Adapter (SHAN-TM700) must be added: $429.95 @ B&H

Regarding batteries/chargers, I would hardly recommend Batteries4Broadcast... very nice products!
The link:

http://batteries4broadcast.com/

H:)
 
I agree with H on the Batteries 4 Broadcast stuff. I have not tried them, but Richard Andrewski of Cool Lights has been using some of their large batteries and likes them. Having owned Anton Bauer batteries when I had my Betacam, they are great stuff but very costly for what they do. The Batteries 4 Broadcast stuff is OEM in either the same or similar facilities where lots of name brand stuff is made.

The other thing you will need with the HPX300 is a tripod capable of supporting it. I am going to go off if I see people buying this camera and putting it on Bogen heads or junk like that. I have what I would consider the lowest acceptable tripod for this camera, the Sachtler DV6-SB head and realistically, it is too small for the HPX300 loaded up with matte box or 35mm adapter. We are talking a professional shoulder mount camera here that will easily be in the 14-18lb bracket here, depending on accessories, so we should be talking about tripods that can handle that weight with ease. In name brand, you are talking about $4k to $6k to do it right.

Oh yeah, and you will need at least a couple of decent sized P2 cards unless you already own them.

Camera with lens will be $8,495.00 MAP price, maybe you can get it lower based upon some deals we have heard talked about

Battery system (two batteries and a charger) $1,000.00 from Batteries 4 Broadcast

Tripod plate - This is something I would call Omega, BCS, etc. and look for used but we know that a new one is $429.00 based on the post above.

Tripod - Unless you are already lucky enough to own a real tripod that can handle 14-18lbs, figure $5k

Case - I think that a nice PortaBrace, Kata or Petrol is around $250.00?

I have no doubt that MANY people will buy the HPX300 who cannot afford it, they will skimp and get something lame like used batteries and will try to put this larger, heavier shoulder mount camera on a stupid Bogen POS and get away with it, if they do, they will learn the hard way. Like any professional camera, you do not buy a camera, you need to buy a camera system. The actual camera portion of a camera system should only be about 50-60% of your camera system budget, camera support is incredibly important to using a professional camera to obtain high end results.

It will be interesting to see how many newbies will step up for this camera, I bet it will be more people stepping up from a Canon XA-H1, HVX-200, etc.

D
 
but people who have a HVX200 or a XA-H1 have the same problem as a newby, their batteries, tripod+head etc. etc. will not fit to the HPX either so it is maybe even better to be a newby at least if you have the necessary money :beer:


puredrifting said:
I agree with H on the Batteries 4 Broadcast stuff. I have not tried them, but Richard Andrewski of Cool Lights has been using some of their large batteries and likes them. Having owned Anton Bauer batteries when I had my Betacam, they are great stuff but very costly for what they do. The Batteries 4 Broadcast stuff is OEM in either the same or similar facilities where lots of name brand stuff is made.

The other thing you will need with the HPX300 is a tripod capable of supporting it. I am going to go off if I see people buying this camera and putting it on Bogen heads or junk like that. I have what I would consider the lowest acceptable tripod for this camera, the Sachtler DV6-SB head and realistically, it is too small for the HPX300 loaded up with matte box or 35mm adapter. We are talking a professional shoulder mount camera here that will easily be in the 14-18lb bracket here, depending on accessories, so we should be talking about tripods that can handle that weight with ease. In name brand, you are talking about $4k to $6k to do it right.

Oh yeah, and you will need at least a couple of decent sized P2 cards unless you already own them.

Camera with lens will be $8,495.00 MAP price, maybe you can get it lower based upon some deals we have heard talked about

Battery system (two batteries and a charger) $1,000.00 from Batteries 4 Broadcast

Tripod plate - This is something I would call Omega, BCS, etc. and look for used but we know that a new one is $429.00 based on the post above.

Tripod - Unless you are already lucky enough to own a real tripod that can handle 14-18lbs, figure $5k

Case - I think that a nice PortaBrace, Kata or Petrol is around $250.00?

I have no doubt that MANY people will buy the HPX300 who cannot afford it, they will skimp and get something lame like used batteries and will try to put this larger, heavier shoulder mount camera on a stupid Bogen POS and get away with it, if they do, they will learn the hard way. Like any professional camera, you do not buy a camera, you need to buy a camera system. The actual camera portion of a camera system should only be about 50-60% of your camera system budget, camera support is incredibly important to using a professional camera to obtain high end results.

It will be interesting to see how many newbies will step up for this camera, I bet it will be more people stepping up from a Canon XA-H1, HVX-200, etc.

D
Click to expand...
 
That is true Cees. People will realize that when you step up from prosumer to a pro camera, it is a whole different ball game. All of the accessories to make the camera function are MUCH more expensive for professional cameras than prosumer stuff. This is a large part of why I won't be able to buy one of these right off. Even if you get the camera for $8k, you almost double that to acquire the full camera package with everything needed to make it work correctly. Most prosumer users cannot afford $15k for their camera package, that is why they are shooting with a $5k camera.

It is exciting though, the 300 looks like a definite step up and is a nice option for those who need better than a prosumer camera but cannot step up to the $18 to $25k for a working HPX500 package.

Dan
 
With regard to the tripod, I've been using the Cartoni Focus head for two years and it has been great. 22lb capacity. I've also been using the Miller carbon fiber legs 66lb capacity. Here are the links.

So just under $2000 could get you there plus the SHANN adapter.

This is most likely the minimum head that will do the job.

Cartoni Focus fluid head:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/423406-REG/Cartoni_F100_F100_Focus_Fluid_Head.html

Miller Solo VJ carbon fiber legs 100mm bowl:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/327753-REG/Miller_1505_SOLO_VJ_Carbon_Fiber.html
 
I agree Kevin, the Focus or the DV6-SB (rated 20lb capacity) would be as low as you want to go with this camera. It is always best to have some additional "headroom" with tripods and cameras anyway. My DV6-SB doesn't impress me with 20lbs on it, but it is perfect with 15 or 16lbs.

Dan
 
Yes you are right the 300 seems as the best of both worlds but I am strugling with all the artifacts the cmos with rolling shutter supossed to have. What is your opinion about it. Are there easy ways to circumvent it? I would rather have some less resolution (HPX500) but not be limited by the rolling shutter artifacts but than again the 500 is much more expensive with lens.


puredrifting said:
That is true Cees. People will realize that when you step up from prosumer to a pro camera, it is a whole different ball game. All of the accessories to make the camera function are MUCH more expensive for professional cameras than prosumer stuff. This is a large part of why I won't be able to buy one of these right off. Even if you get the camera for $8k, you almost double that to acquire the full camera package with everything needed to make it work correctly. Most prosumer users cannot afford $15k for their camera package, that is why they are shooting with a $5k camera.

It is exciting though, the 300 looks like a definite step up and is a nice option for those who need better than a prosumer camera but cannot step up to the $18 to $25k for a working HPX500 package.

Dan
Click to expand...
 
Hi Cees:

I only got to play with it last week for about 15 minutes at a dealer. Have not shot with it but I have shot with the EX1 and EX3 a lot over the past year. I am 100% in agreement with Barry's take on it. The artifacts are there, they are very present and noticeable. The question is, what sort of shooting do you do most of the time? Me, about 50% of my shooting is sit down interviews. No issues at all with that. I shoot a lot of tabletop on a jib. I can work with the rolling shutter artifacts with tabletop shooting because I control everyhting on my tabletop shoots, the lighting, props, BGs, lighting and camera movement.

I shoot movie premiers occasionally. The HPX300 would NOT be a good choice for that situation, there are hundreds of camera flashes going off all over the place and rolling shutter looks pretty horrendous with the frame tearing during flashes. I don't typically shoot a LOT of long lens panning, that is where the CMOS rolling shutter is going to get you. As Barry states in his article, on the stock lens, fully zoomed in, you can see CMOS artifacting with almost all of the camera movement. I agree, that is also my experience with the EX1 and EX3. I shot a few baseball games, just for fun, and the footage was mostly useless unless I could live with the rubber looking pictures as I panned on long lens shots tracking runners and fielders.

Personally I will not buy an HPX300 unless I can pay for it outright, rather than selling my 170 to finance it. I think having the 170 and the 300 would be the best of all possible worlds. For my work, having a small prosumer camcorder is a very big plus and having a camera I could shoot long lens stuff on and use at movie premiers/red carpets would be a must. Few of my clients care about picture quality as much as I do. The 170 is good for them, heck, I even have most of corporate clients who I still shoot my DVX100a for and they are happy with the look of it. Corporate, for the most part, is still a 4x3 SD DVD delivery world so n most cases, even the 170 is overkill for them.

I think it boils down to there is not a perfect camera...

HPX170 - prosumer build, pixel shift
HPX500 - cost, horrible VF, pixel shift
HPX300 - 1/3" imager, CMOS rolling shutter artifacts
EX1 - horrible ergonomics, CMOS rolling shutter, less desirable codec
EX3 - same
HPX2000, 2700 - cost, not full raster
HPX3000, 3700 - cost, full raster but no VFR
RED One - cost, weight, cinema camera made for shooting films, not TV shows and what I do, workflow is cumbersome

Its all about selecting the right tool for you and your workflow. Truth be known, I could do killer work with any camera above and would be happy with any camera above. Already have the 170 and overall, I am very happy with it and have done some nice work with it. Would like to upgrade to the HPX300, but would still need the 170 for a lot of things.

Dan
 
Not to mention, if you want to use a 35mm adapter, it will make the camera ungodly super long and front heavy (you can buy a $6500 or $3500 letus relay lens). So add a more heavier duty tripod system to your budget numbers.

Furthermore, with a shoulder mounted pro style camera like the hpx300, you also need a different type of "baseplate" for your 15mm rods. The rods do not extend all the way to the back making it impossible to use a rear counterweight like the zacuto lunchbox.
 
Many would say that is a primary difference between a professional and a prosumer camera. Prosumer cameras always have autofocus and professional cameras never have autofocus.

Dan
 
So what do you recomend for someone who shoots mainly corporate movies(production processes, training, commercials) and for local goverment (archiving like construction works, real estate) and sometimes events ?

puredrifting said:
Hi Cees:

I only got to play with it last week for about 15 minutes at a dealer. Have not shot with it but I have shot with the EX1 and EX3 a lot over the past year. I am 100% in agreement with Barry's take on it. The artifacts are there, they are very present and noticeable. The question is, what sort of shooting do you do most of the time? Me, about 50% of my shooting is sit down interviews. No issues at all with that. I shoot a lot of tabletop on a jib. I can work with the rolling shutter artifacts with tabletop shooting because I control everyhting on my tabletop shoots, the lighting, props, BGs, lighting and camera movement.

I shoot movie premiers occasionally. The HPX300 would NOT be a good choice for that situation, there are hundreds of camera flashes going off all over the place and rolling shutter looks pretty horrendous with the frame tearing during flashes. I don't typically shoot a LOT of long lens panning, that is where the CMOS rolling shutter is going to get you. As Barry states in his article, on the stock lens, fully zoomed in, you can see CMOS artifacting with almost all of the camera movement. I agree, that is also my experience with the EX1 and EX3. I shot a few baseball games, just for fun, and the footage was mostly useless unless I could live with the rubber looking pictures as I panned on long lens shots tracking runners and fielders.

Personally I will not buy an HPX300 unless I can pay for it outright, rather than selling my 170 to finance it. I think having the 170 and the 300 would be the best of all possible worlds. For my work, having a small prosumer camcorder is a very big plus and having a camera I could shoot long lens stuff on and use at movie premiers/red carpets would be a must. Few of my clients care about picture quality as much as I do. The 170 is good for them, heck, I even have most of corporate clients who I still shoot my DVX100a for and they are happy with the look of it. Corporate, for the most part, is still a 4x3 SD DVD delivery world so n most cases, even the 170 is overkill for them.

I think it boils down to there is not a perfect camera...

HPX170 - prosumer build, pixel shift
HPX500 - cost, horrible VF, pixel shift
HPX300 - 1/3" imager, CMOS rolling shutter artifacts
EX1 - horrible ergonomics, CMOS rolling shutter, less desirable codec
EX3 - same
HPX2000, 2700 - cost, not full raster
HPX3000, 3700 - cost, full raster but no VFR
RED One - cost, weight, cinema camera made for shooting films, not TV shows and what I do, workflow is cumbersome

Its all about selecting the right tool for you and your workflow. Truth be known, I could do killer work with any camera above and would be happy with any camera above. Already have the 170 and overall, I am very happy with it and have done some nice work with it. Would like to upgrade to the HPX300, but would still need the 170 for a lot of things.

Dan
Click to expand...
 
Panasonic AG-HMC150 and a fast computer. Why spend all of the extra money for clients who could care less? I would never use or own P2 if my clients were of that category because clients in those categories typically know nothing about video and could care less what something is shot on, although a few of them are impressed with a big, honking camera.

It's funny, as my skills advance in this business, I have this perverse thought that I want to continue to use cheaper and cheaper tools as they become better and better. I am shooting part of what will hopefully be a broadcast doc in June on a Canon consumer HD camcorder that will cost around $1,000.00. The subject is compelling and needs to have the cinematographer blend in with his life seamlessly for the concept to work so me running around with my 170, P2 cards, laptop, etc. isn't going to cut it. Me with a tiny, lightweight and unobtrusive consumer camcorder is going to be the ticket.

My latest microphone I am using is the AudioTechnica AT875r. It is a very cheap ($189.00) mini shotgun that sounds as good or better than most $500.00 mics on the market.

My latest lights are the $399.00 Cool Lights LED 600s. Cheap, light and effective, especially for travel and one man band shoots that I often do.

I am definitely on the doing more with less trend lately. I probably should start trimming some of my three ton grip and lighting package because it is only getting used once or twice a year for the past few years so why have it all when I can rent a fully loaded two or three ton G&L truck for around $750.00 a day all in?

I am done trying to impress clients with gear, they want lean and mean so I say, give it to them. Make some profit instead of buying a higher end camera.

Dan
 
puredrifting said:
It's funny, as my skills advance in this business, I have this perverse thought that I want to continue to use cheaper and cheaper tools as they become better and better.
Click to expand...

I think it's telling rather than funny.

We have had a 200, a 200a, and 170.

We still have the 170 and a HMC150.

We primarily shoot on the 150, and then gear our purchases and learning to make the 150 look the best.

When I read that the 150 is a "prosumer" camera, I have to pause and laugh.

What makes it that?

I agree with you Dan.

We tailor what we do to get the best from the least.

In today's market, that makes sense, but overall it makes sense to the client as well.

If I can deliver a product inexpensively and professionally, clients will buy it and return and they won't ask what it was shot with
 
If someone has a DV6SB Fluid Head , what is necessary to get the 300 on that tripod head?

Just the cam -- nothing else?

The reason I ask is a distributor said that the more expensive SHAN-TM700 wasn't needed.

any help would be appreciated.
 
Are you replaying on my question?


puredrifting said:
Panasonic AG-HMC150 and a fast computer. Why spend all of the extra money for clients who could care less? I would never use or own P2 if my clients were of that category because clients in those categories typically know nothing about video and could care less what something is shot on, although a few of them are impressed with a big, honking camera.

It's funny, as my skills advance in this business, I have this perverse thought that I want to continue to use cheaper and cheaper tools as they become better and better. I am shooting part of what will hopefully be a broadcast doc in June on a Canon consumer HD camcorder that will cost around $1,000.00. The subject is compelling and needs to have the cinematographer blend in with his life seamlessly for the concept to work so me running around with my 170, P2 cards, laptop, etc. isn't going to cut it. Me with a tiny, lightweight and unobtrusive consumer camcorder is going to be the ticket.

My latest microphone I am using is the AudioTechnica AT875r. It is a very cheap ($189.00) mini shotgun that sounds as good or better than most $500.00 mics on the market.

My latest lights are the $399.00 Cool Lights LED 600s. Cheap, light and effective, especially for travel and one man band shoots that I often do.

I am definitely on the doing more with less trend lately. I probably should start trimming some of my three ton grip and lighting package because it is only getting used once or twice a year for the past few years so why have it all when I can rent a fully loaded two or three ton G&L truck for around $750.00 a day all in?

I am done trying to impress clients with gear, they want lean and mean so I say, give it to them. Make some profit instead of buying a higher end camera.

Dan
Click to expand...
 
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