C200: Tripod Head for heavy setup?

Those Sachtler ACE heads and really all of the newer FSB models I've used are bad. The older Video 14 as well as my DV6-SB seem pretty good for lower end Sachtlers and of course the Video 18/20 is the standard.
I was surprised that the newer FSBs were so plasticky and the movement was crap. I think my DV6 SB head in the day was around $2,500.00 and I've been using it for nearly 15 years and I can do smooth moves up to about 15lbs.
They really did change when Vitec acquired them and moved everything to Costa Rica, not with the Costa Rica stuff as the O'Connors are made side by side there and they are still good, it's just the design and the amount of
plastic parts went way up around that time and the quality went way down. The ACE stuff, ughh, so bad.
 
I think the ACE stuff is pretty good for the price. I have a couple of ACE XL's on manfrotto 055 legs with the video center column that I use for interviews and running around. It can balance out a full Canon C300 II rig and allow perfectly adequate pans and tilts. It takes up almost no space and is extremely light. The tripod also allow me to mount a mixer or monitor directly to the legs. I tried out an FSB 8 and sent it back because I thought it was overpriced. I wouldn't have the Vinten 8as other than the fact that they can be found very cheaply on the used market. But the ACE XL does what I need it to when space or weight is a concern.
 
I have a client(network) that has in the last 4-5 few years started buying and using their own gear and making us use it at times. All handycams with cheap tripods and support gear that would possibly be overlooked by modern High School production programs. Out of the super sh!tty tripods that they buy and use, the ACE is probably the best(I'll take it over the POS Manfrotto's ANY DAY), in the context of heads that cost a few $100 and are being purchased by people that have zero knowledge or experience with real production equipment. But they still suck. The way that the tilt-lock knob is attached to the head(on a moving tilting part of the head), when you lock or un-lock the knob, it tilts the head by mechanical force.
 
cpreston said:
I think the ACE stuff is pretty good for the price. I have a couple of ACE XL's on manfrotto 055 legs with the video center column that I use for interviews and running around. It can balance out a full Canon C300 II rig and allow perfectly adequate pans and tilts. It takes up almost no space and is extremely light. The tripod also allow me to mount a mixer or monitor directly to the legs. I tried out an FSB 8 and sent it back because I thought it was overpriced. I wouldn't have the Vinten 8as other than the fact that they can be found very cheaply on the used market. But the ACE XL does what I need it to when space or weight is a concern.
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I'm too old school for the ACE stuff. Too much plastic and they lack the "Sachtler Feel" to me (I've owned the Video 14, 18 and DV6SB). They feel no different than a Manfrotto or other cheap tripod to me.
I think the steal out there, provided they have kept the "old" design would be the Sachtler 12SB, it's just a little over $3,600.00, 100mm bowl and rated to 31lbs. That with some of the new Flowtech 100 legs
would be a sweet setup for almost any camera I would be using these days. If I rent a heavy Arri or RED package, I would rent the proper tripod for it.
 
Why is the OConnor 1040 cheaper than the OConnor 1030Ds?

This might've been mentioned in the 1040 thread but does this concern anyone?

I'd love to add an Oconnor/flowtech set up sometime next year but would rather buy the superior product if I'm planning on owning for 25+years.
 
rob norton said:
Why is the OConnor 1040 cheaper than the OConnor 1030Ds?

This might've been mentioned in the 1040 thread but does this concern anyone?

I'd love to add an Oconnor/flowtech set up sometime next year but would rather buy the superior product if I'm planning on owning for 25+years.
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I believe the 1030DS actually has a HEAVIER overall payload capacity, but it can not tilt +/- 90 like the 1040(1030DS only does 60, which is a non-starter for me). There also may be manufacturing, materials and engineering advancements that have taken place since the 1030DS was created that allow it to be sold for less that may not involve compromises with regards to performance or durability. Or they could be cutting corners... Don't know, yet. Hoping to get a demo unit soon. I've already put in for one with my dealer.
 
puredrifting said:
I'm too old school for the ACE stuff. Too much plastic and they lack the "Sachtler Feel" to me (I've owned the Video 14, 18 and DV6SB). They feel no different than a Manfrotto or other cheap tripod to me.
I think the steal out there, provided they have kept the "old" design would be the Sachtler 12SB, it's just a little over $3,600.00, 100mm bowl and rated to 31lbs. That with some of the new Flowtech 100 legs
would be a sweet setup for almost any camera I would be using these days. If I rent a heavy Arri or RED package, I would rent the proper tripod for it.
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I think there’s a real difference between the regular ACE and the ACE XL. XL is closer to the video series and can perform well with a lot more weight. I have one sitting next to a manfrotto and the difference is huge, particularly the counterweight system.
 
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Vinten Vision 100. Not sexy, like Sachtler and OConnor, but actually a hidden gem.
Smoother than OConnor. (Yes, my friends I have found this to be true).
And you don't need to hit certain specific weight levels to properly balance as with the "numbered" system of Sachtler.
Truly continuous counterbalance.
You can place the head absolutely everywhere often even with only 0 dialed in.
Expensive new, but often quite cheap used.
 
yoclay said:
Vinten Vision 100. Not sexy, like Sachtler and OConnor, but actually a hidden gem.
Smoother than OConnor. (Yes, my friends I have found this to be true).
And you don't need to hit certain specific weight levels to properly balance as with the "numbered" system of Sachtler.
Truly continuous counterbalance.
You can place the head absolutely everywhere often even with only 0 dialed in.
Expensive new, but often quite cheap used.
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There’s a reason that every hard camera/OB camera build-up you see is sitting on top of a Vinten and almost every tripod/head you see for the ENG/handheld cameras on the OB/live sports trucks are Vinten 100’s or 250’s.

Also, and take it for what it’s worth, the 100 and 250 have had the ‘Guild of Operating Cameramen’ Seal of Approval since 2001. They have also given their blessing to two other Vinten heads designed for hard cameras and three of their pedestals.

If it’s a 100 and up and it’s not damaged and It’s a proper payload and you can’t get a good move, it’s not the head. Something else for people to keep in mind, too, is the sticks. You often hear people complain about backlash and such things, and it can be and often times is, the actual tripod. I’ve always loved my Sachtler Speedlocks, but as soon as I switched to the Flowtech 100’s, I really noticed just how much backlash(twisting) my (normal 100)Speedlocks really had, when I was shooting with high drag settings.
 
Run&Gun said:
There’s a reason that every hard camera/OB camera build-up you see is sitting on top of a Vinten and almost every tripod/head you see for the ENG/handheld cameras on the OB/live sports trucks are Vinten 100’s or 250’s.

Also, and take it for what it’s worth, the 100 and 250 have had the ‘Guild of Operating Cameramen’ Seal of Approval since 2001. They have also given their blessing to two other Vinten heads designed for hard cameras and three of their pedestals.

If it’s a 100 and up and it’s not damaged and It’s a proper payload and you can’t get a good move, it’s not the head. Something else for people to keep in mind, too, is the sticks. You often hear people complain about backlash and such things, and it can be and often times is, the actual tripod. I’ve always loved my Sachtler Speedlocks, but as soon as I switched to the Flowtech 100’s, I really noticed just how much backlash(twisting) my (normal 100)Speedlocks really had, when I was shooting with high drag settings.
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Why would you go for the O’Connor 1040 over a Vinten then?
 
rob norton said:
Why would you go for the O’Connor 1040 over a Vinten then?
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I would go for an O'Connor over a Vinten just because it has a far wider range of counterbalance. The Vinten 100 only goes down to a rated 14 lbs. Also, the counterbalance adjustment is really slow. In addition, while I've never used the Vinten 100, I find the metal brake levers on the O'Connors to be more substantial than the smaller levers on the Vinten. The one thing an O'Connor will not do as easily as the others is a whip pan.
 
rob norton said:
Why would you go for the O’Connor 1040 over a Vinten then?
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cpreston said:
I would go for an O'Connor over a Vinten just because it has a far wider range of counterbalance. The Vinten 100 only goes down to a rated 14 lbs. Also, the counterbalance adjustment is really slow. In addition, while I've never used the Vinten 100, I find the metal brake levers on the O'Connors to be more substantial than the smaller levers on the Vinten. The one thing an O'Connor will not do as easily as the others is a whip pan.
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I don’t think I ever committed to buying a 1040. I like their big stuff and that’s why I have requested a demo of the 1040, to see if I like it(enough to spend $6900 on). But honestly, unless it’s something just game-changing in the feel and performance, I may not do it this year. That kind of money could go a long way towards the just announced new MBP(my current one is 9 yrs old) and the upgrades I have planned in my den/man cave. Especially when considering I have three 100’s that some people would probably trade a foot or at least a couple toes for to have instead of their tripod heads.

The ability to immediately go into and out of a whip pan without making any drag adjustments used to be one of the attributes that Vinten always pointed out in their literature.
 
The one fragile point on the Vintens is the Tilt brake. For some reason people can too easily lock it and then force the head, while it is still in a locked position, breaking it. I have seen countless used heads that had this issue, but that is really the only thing I could say against the head.

With the OConnor's I have found that it is a bit tricky to get the horizontal and vertical axis perfectly balanced against each other.
So if you do a figure 8 with an OConnor you can see where one axis dominates the other.
The Vinten's wipe the floor with the OConnors on that kind of movement. This is why they dominate sporting events.
 
Run&Gun said:
I don’t think I ever committed to buying a 1040. I like their big stuff and that’s why I have requested a demo of the 1040, to see if I like it(enough to spend $6900 on). But honestly, unless it’s something just game-changing in the feel and performance, I may not do it this year. That kind of money could go a long way towards the just announced new MBP(my current one is 9 yrs old) and the upgrades I have planned in my den/man cave. Especially when considering I have three 100’s that some people would probably trade a foot or at least a couple toes for to have instead of their tripod heads.

The ability to immediately go into and out of a whip pan without making any drag adjustments used to be one of the attributes that Vinten always pointed out in their literature.
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Thanks!

The one fragile point on the Vintens is the Tilt brake. For some reason people can too easily lock it and then force the head, while it is still in a locked position, breaking it. I have seen countless used heads that had this issue, but that is really the only thing I could say against the head.

With the OConnor's I have found that it is a bit tricky to get the horizontal and vertical axis perfectly balanced against each other.
So if you do a figure 8 with an OConnor you can see where one axis dominates the other.
The Vinten's wipe the floor with the OConnors on that kind of movement. This is why they dominate sporting events
Click to expand...

Thanks for the details. I'm surprised to hear about such a large gap in performance between two premium heads. Why do you think OConnor is more popular in the cinema world? Is it just one of those things where one brand became a standard without necessarily being superior?
 
I know that buying used has been brought up many times before, but it is worth repeating. I have seen a lot of good stuff on eBay this week and I just bought an excellent condition Vinten 250 with a ped that lived in a studio for about 1/3rd of what the head alone costs brand new. And most of the 250 heads are selling for the same price or more than I paid for the package(saw one for the same price and near mint, but missing the pan handles, which is weird, because the attachment/swivel brackets that are part of the handles are on the head).

I don't really need the ped. I only have one or two shoots a year where something like that would come in handy, so I may turn around and re-sell it and possibly get 2/3rds to 100% of what I paid for the whole package, based on other listings for the same ped alone. Not bad if you can pick-up a ~$9K head and end up netting out for $0-$1K.

So while the 250 is definitely not a run & gun head and I'm not comparing it to the 1040, because it has a MUCH higher payload capacity(77lbs) and it is sort of a crossover/hybrid field/studio head, the 1040 is now 100% off my purchase list for this year. But when my dealer does come through with the demo, I will let y'all know what I think of it.

BTW: there are several 100 packages with legs on eBay for $2K to $3K, right now and saw a head for just over $1K. 44lb payload and $6200+ brand new, just for your info.
 
rob norton said:
Thanks!



Thanks for the details. I'm surprised to hear about such a large gap in performance between two premium heads. Why do you think OConnor is more popular in the cinema world? Is it just one of those things where one brand became a standard without necessarily being superior?
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The Oconnor's have some more "cinema friendly" features on them, like handle attachment points on the front and back, extended VF bracket attachment points and AC box attachment points that make the (larger) heads more useful/friendly for that type of environment, whereas the Vinten's, while still top-notch, are more broadcast oriented where everything is pretty much attached to the camera and a lot of operation with the bigger heads is from the rear, instead of more intimate from the side like with a cinema camera(or even an ENG camera). I do wish the Vinten's had some extra attachment points, at times, for certain set-ups.
 
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