toyed with a demo aja cion and i liked it!

R

robfilms

Veteran
was at abel cine/nyc (great place) and aja was doing a demo on the software updated cion.

had it up on my shoulder, weight felt reasonable.

liked the menu system.

interesting notion about how pix is designed with more in the blacks rather than in whites.

with 444 prores as the codec, protect the highlights and supposedly you are good to go.

images i saw were nice.

anyone in nyc metro area have/use a cion?

ymmv

be well.

rob
smalltalk productions/nyc
 
Rob, we tested a very early Cion (pre firmware update). Great form factor and balance on the shoulder. I liked the colors (especially blues and greens) but some don't. Like you said, you have to protect the highlights and there is a great deal of detail in the blacks. Takes some getting used to coming from the Blackmagic world :)
 
scorsesefan said:
Rob, we tested a very early Cion (pre firmware update). Great form factor and balance on the shoulder. I liked the colors (especially blues and greens) but some don't. Like you said, you have to protect the highlights and there is a great deal of detail in the blacks. Takes some getting used to coming from the Blackmagic world :)
Click to expand...

i read your partner's review and the updated review on the same site.

both very insightful.

and there does appear to be a bit more detail in the blacks.

aja suggests perhaps as much as two stops. (sales talk?)

so everyone knocks the camera because of the perceived limited dynamic range but if there is more range in the blacks than initially perceived than perhaps this "short-coming" is more pixel peeping than actuality.

for me the bottom line is the cion makes a nice looking image.

i am not suggesting BEST EVER! or even better than the obvious offerings from canon and sony, but i do like their color.

(then again, i also like bm's "look"!)

ymmv

be well.

rob
smalltalk productions/nyc
 
Yeah, we do verite doc work and I don't think I would use the Cion for that (although the form factor would be awesome for that type of work) but on narrative or sit down docs I would definitely give it a go...
 
Apparently yes. Two cameras can have the same amount of DR and end up after processing with the same image, but one has its DR in the shadows that was pulled up and the other has its DR in the highlights that were brought down. Camera with their most DR located in the shadows should be shot to avoid highlights, not to avoid shadows (noise) like with other cameras

I highly believe most of the Cion DR tests were fooled by not digging into the shadows. It's the same sensor as BMPK/URSA and it most likely has the same amount of DR (12 stops). I've seen incredibly clean images from the cion after a torture 2-3 stop push of deep shadows and they reveal clean data and colours.
 
Ebrahim Saadawi said:
Apparently yes. Two cameras can have the same amount of DR and end up after processing with the same image, but one has its DR in the shadows that was pulled up and the other has its DR in the highlights that were brought down. Camera with their most DR located in the shadows should be shot to avoid highlights, not to avoid shadows (noise) like with other cameras

I highly believe most of the Cion DR tests were fooled by not digging into the shadows. It's the same sensor as BMPK/URSA and it most likely has the same amount of DR (12 stops). I've seen incredibly clean images from the cion after a torture 2-3 stop push of deep shadows and they reveal clean data and colours.
Click to expand...

and that is exactly why i'm intrigued!

ymmv

be well.

rob
smalltalk productions/nyc
 
I had the Cion during their "try Cion" demo period, and the camera does have GREAT skin tones under soft daylight. Whenever someone sees the footage on my editing system they are immediately wow'ed by the Cion shots. Under tungsten lights- not so great.

I felt you definitely have to expose the camera differently and would really like to spend more time shooting with it. It definitely had a harsh highlight roll off. Need to desaturate the highlights as it looks like bad video.
 
karl-

the aja rep who was demo'ing the cion mentioned the harsh roll-offs.

he also said that aja wanted to address the issue in a firmware update which they have already had several.

(sales talk?)

as for tungsten, i has not heard/read that criticism.

any screen captures to demo the "not so great".

(please know i am not challenging your assertion. just the opposite. i am simply looking to continue the conversation about a slightly "differently designed" camera that might have fallen between the cracks as the canon/sony roll-outs now come fast & furious. folks sometimes get very vigilant on forum boards!)

thank you for sharing your experiences.

be well.

rob
smalltalk productions/nyc
 
karl-

saw your vimeo test.

i might disagree with "not so great" but that's only my opinion.

thanks for the effort.

thanks for the sharing.

be well.

rob
smalltalk productions/nyc
 
The highlight roll off is a sensor issue. It's existing in the Blackmagic Production and Ursa cameras. The sensor just clips abruptly after a point.

Sensor highlight ''look'' ''could'' be improved upon by tweaking processing (a gamma curve with slight curvy upper part, desaturation of clippd channels, etc) but don,t expect miracles. It would take a lot of preocessing to improve a highlight roll off and it would make it the best. Just maybe slightly better.

I'd treat that Cmosis sensor as it is, don't blow out highlights, never. Not on any camefa with that chip. The highlight clipping on the C300II, the Alexa/Amira, Red Dragon, Varicam, are the ones that are different and really do blow off extremely nicely.

Ursa/BMP4K/Cion all blow off like a C300I. Just blow off to white with a harsh line.
 
robfilms said:
karl-

saw your vimeo test.

i might disagree with "not so great" but that's only my opinion.
Click to expand...

Many if not all CMOS sensor video cameras have trouble with tungsten lighting- most are native daylight- my understanding. I'm looking for cameras that grade well with minimal effort- so the footage can be handed off with more confidence knowing it doesn't need to be professionally graded like a true LOG recorded image.

The Epic MX was definitely easier to grade than the Cion, under tungsten light- and the MX sensor cameras are certainly not known for being Tungsten friendly.

I was working and had limited time with the Cion. It definitely struck me as a camera under development, and in need of quite a bit of development.

It also struck me that the Cion produced some really great skin tones under soft, daylight sources- the sun. Really nice skin tones. Definitely preferred the Cion over the Epic MX- however I'm a bit of a Red basher. It's a texture thing also- Reds can look overprocessed pretty quickly- "plasticy" for lack of a better term. The Cion had pleasing texture with caucasian skin tone.

I did read the article in FD Times: http://www.fdtimes.com/2015/10/13/alis-aja-asprey-films/
I'd like to try the Cion again in the field sometime. Especially after they come up with new gamma curves and knee points.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top