To upgrade or not?

M

Mike_Raddport

Well-known member
I am a long time DVX user, but I have both a docu and independent feature in mind for this camera, and I know I should upgrade to HD before I do either.

So, my simple question is this... Is the HMC-150 the upgrade for me. I've toyed with the 170, but with the P2 - a little pricey. I've already worked out the post workflow with the transcoding and pray that CS4 4.1 fixes the buggy AVCHD editing presets, but is the image good enough to warrant the expense.

Do you guys love it???? Is it THE one?

Thanks for your time.
 
Even after transcoding to DVCProHD using the Main Concept transcoder, the images are great. I don't even try to edit AVCHD natively with CS4 because of the bugs, but I can only speak to my own situation. I know others... specifically Green Hornet... aren't having issues.

Remember, you can also transcode to Cineform with either Neo, or wait until ProspectHD v4 comes out. Yes, it costs to do that, but it's still a heckuva lot cheaper than shooting with P2. The HMC150 is essentially the HPX170 without P2 and a few other bells and whistles that aren't compatable with AVCHD.

I loved my DVX100a, but I don't miss it because in all honesty I don't think it holds a candle to the HMC150. I don't miss tape, I don't miss Standard Def. I love that everything for my DVX (save for the batteries) works with the HMC (I have a Zoe zoom control).

So to answer your question... I don't regret the upgrade one bit.
 
im enjoying the camera...much like shooting on the DVX with a few upsides. of course there are downsides too. the audio popping is probably the biggest issue as of right now for most people because the built in sound board is veeerrrrry touchy. If you want to get good audio, i would recommend recording with external sound devices.

but yeah the picture quality is great...go for it =)
 
I've heard Fuji is releasing a new line of P2 cards that are more affordable. But I'm not sure when they will be released. Announced the same day as the panasonic 3D cam, couple weeks ago.
 
RobbySonic said:
I've heard Fuji is releasing a new line of P2 cards that are more affordable. But I'm not sure when they will be released. Announced the same day as the panasonic 3D cam, couple weeks ago.
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It's the new "E" series of P2 cards that Fuji and Panasonic are releasing. They are much cheaper... 16GB - $440; 32GB - $640; 64GB - $1,000. They are also supposed to be faster, but have a shorter lifespan.

Still, I like paying 1/13 that price for a good 16GB card that gets me over 1.5 hours at the highest bitrate. :)
 
whitecrow1 said:
im enjoying the camera...much like shooting on the DVX with a few upsides. of course there are downsides too. the audio popping is probably the biggest issue as of right now for most people because the built in sound board is veeerrrrry touchy. If you want to get good audio, i would recommend recording with external sound devices.

but yeah the picture quality is great...go for it =)
Click to expand...

You don't tell someone to go for something just because the picture quality.

This audio thing is really bumming me out man. Why wouldn't it be the same as the audio from the HPX? Obviously there are more differences in these cameras than people realize.

What does touchy mean? And I read that it doesn't work with modern mics or something? That was sarcastic right? Please tell me that guy was being sarcastic.



Also, those E series p2 cards are due out this summer and fall I believe.
 
I have not experienced any audio problems with my HMC150. I now have about 40 hours of footage and amongst the footage are two locations where I was shooting live music patched into a board one hard wired and the other on a Sennheiser wireless. I have several interviews some shot in controlled environments and some done "run and gun". I have stock shot material by the sea shore with great wave and water sounds. Manufacturing locations where the overall level is loud and yet there is still definition in the audio. The mics I use are, Sennheiser MKH 60 shotgun, Tram TR50s for interviews as well as Sennheiser MKE2s and I use a Chinese made APEX Hypercard for some interior dialogue. All pretty standard kit and the audio I have been getting is A-1. Maybe I am lucky?
 
Entity said:
You don't tell someone to go for something just because the picture quality.
Click to expand...

You do when the question was "is the picture quality worth it".

This audio thing is really bumming me out man. Why wouldn't it be the same as the audio from the HPX? Obviously there are more differences in these cameras than people realize.

What does touchy mean? And I read that it doesn't work with modern mics or something? That was sarcastic right? Please tell me that guy was being sarcastic.
Click to expand...
Yes, it works with modern mics, I don't know where you got that. As far as the audio issues... not every camera has it. In fact, I would wager that the bulk of them don't. My thinking is that there was a bad batch of them that had this issue, because I and several others have yet to experience this problem. It happens. It shouldn't, but it happens. Given shadowProd's situation, I don't think he should let that hold him back from purchasing it... just so long as he is aware of it and takes the time to test it to see if he got a bum camera before he starts his doc.
 
Thanks guys for the quick and informative responses. The audio is a concern, but I'm hoping that it was a bad batch. Another question, I've been running tests with a class 6 SDHC card I bought and went to a camera shop and shot ten minutes of footage with the 150, and I find that it looks incredible in my CS4 project window, or playing it through Panasonics AVCHD viewer, but when I transcode it through the panny trancoder to DVCProHD or AVI or just downrez it to Mpeg2 DVD. I find it doesn't look as good as the DVX when playing back on a regular or HD TV. Mainly because of the ailising effect on all lines and hard edges. I.E. peoples glasses, etc. When I put an anti aliasing filter on the footage it's better, but then I lose the resolution. Do you guys have the same problem? I'm using a core I7 - 12 gigs of ram - ati 1 gig 4850 card. Thanks, again.
 
For the record -- I've been relentlessly testing the HMC for a range of possible uses -- and never once -- no matter what mic was plugged in (cheap or that cost a fortune) I've never had audio "problems." I've also never had a memory card issue of any kind in hundreds of hours of recording (I use Sandisk Extreme 3).

And just for the sake of being even more controversial -- I have yet to see a true "artifact." Noise is not an "artifact." There's a dance party of noise in Cine-D mode -- but these are not "artifacts." The "artifacts" you see on the web, like Vimeo, relate to user encoding combined with Vimeo encoding. In terms of "artifacts" on the camera raw files -- the answer is still "nada" from this user.

Finally, transcoding to DVCPROHD and editing with (Premiere and/or After Effects) CS4 is a shockingly pleasant workflow -- perhaps second only to a future time in which you effortlessly edit camera raw "PH" AVCHD. On my systems the transcoding (including 60p) is faster than any "real time" tape capture.

The HMC isn't perfect -- but I honestly believe some of the complaints you read on the boards are made up by people still trying to pay off their Sony EX1 sink-hole investment.
 
That's great to hear AG - the issue I was speaking of, aisiling or moraying (sp) on hard edges really isn't a camera issue as much as it is HD to SD (dvd) downrez or transcode issue. I was wondering if anyone else was seeing this. I've heard many people say that HD to SD DVD is a worse image than SD to SD DVD.

It's great news to hear that you've had no audio problems, though.
 
shadowProd said:
Thanks guys for the quick and informative responses. The audio is a concern, but I'm hoping that it was a bad batch. Another question, I've been running tests with a class 6 SDHC card I bought and went to a camera shop and shot ten minutes of footage with the 150, and I find that it looks incredible in my CS4 project window, or playing it through Panasonics AVCHD viewer, but when I transcode it through the panny trancoder to DVCProHD or AVI or just downrez it to Mpeg2 DVD. I find it doesn't look as good as the DVX when playing back on a regular or HD TV. Mainly because of the ailising effect on all lines and hard edges. I.E. peoples glasses, etc. When I put an anti aliasing filter on the footage it's better, but then I lose the resolution. Do you guys have the same problem? I'm using a core I7 - 12 gigs of ram - ati 1 gig 4850 card. Thanks, again.
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Me, I get the best result transcoding to DVCProHD, editing in HD, then exporting to DVD (SD) using the HD editing.

I also made other tests. Look my thread on the subject here.
 
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