To 7D or not to 7D?

S

scenedirector

Well-known member
Okay guys, I want input, that's why I'm asking.
That's what forums are about, right?

Right now I have a Canon A1/SGBlade with some sick Nikon glass.
I know there are pros and cons to the 7D.

But am I upgrading when it comes to format if I kick the A1 set up for a 7D set up?

HDV w/35mm d.o.f. 25mbs/1440x1080/24f, 30f, 60i/MPEG video-audio compression/poor low light

7D 45mbs/1920x1080/24P, 30P (60P 1280x720)/H264 compression/decent low light


These are all specs, but I want to know if I sell my A1/Blade set up, I'm somewhat progressing with acquisition technology.

I was thinking in investing into a 7D with a GOOD Nikon adapter. Going a strong audio route either with the zoom H4n or the Juicedlink CX231 (if I acquire audio from camera).
And when Magic Lanern comes out with the support, I will definitely get that on the cam.

I would also be putting "Rollling Shutter" software from the Foundry, and Neoscene from Cineform on my Mac Pro to iron out some of the post issues.

Any input from a real world experience, not just specs on paper, and some sound advice when it comes to investing into changing to a whole new format, specifically my situation: HDV to an HDSLR, would be much appreciated.

Thanks guys!
 
I think it blows away the A1 on a pure what you can achieve with the glass basis. And rolling shutter is not that big a deal if you know how to sidestep it in the first place. 7D for the win...

Noah
 
I would definitely say the 7d. The A1 is already well on its way out due to it being a minidv cam. Never liked 35mm adapter as well, and you can achieve that dof look natively with a 7d.

:bath:
 
I was also in a similar situation, except I had JVC HD100/200+35mm adapter also with NIKON mount lenses.

I got a 7D & went with nikon to canon adapters on my nikons and sigmas. The only canon mount lens i got was a wide 11-16 f2.8 tokina.

Its like a yoke was taken off me and my grips' shoulders. Everything is now lightweight.

Here's a tourism video I did all with 7D.

[size=+2]Bantayan Island[/size]


The codec when transcoded to an intermediate codec (i used HQ) handled grading and compositing. But then I also did that with hdv codec.
 
I highly doubt you'll find the expensive Foundry rolling shutter software worth it in the end. That money could be spent on more important things like lenses, cards, etc.
 
7D all the way. I sold my HVX200 for it.

http://vimeo.com/8455331

Watch that, thats some other guy whos selling his HVX200 for it as well, the things that can be achieved with the 7D are undoubtedly better than what you can achieve with any current video camera under 10,000$.

You have a lot to learn though once you delve into the HDSLR video system, you need to suddenly learn how to shoot and edit like a filmmaker more than just a video shooter... if that makes sense. There is so much more tweaking that needs to be done and so many more variables.. lighting becomes all that much more important, etc etc.

I can speak in volumes about the 7D and it's wonderful ability to create amazing looking HD video - but until you get your hands on it (and make sure you get the Canon F1.4 50mm lens with it) and try it out, you won't really know for sure. Just get a rig for it and it looks a lot more professional than a video camera does anyway.
 
Oh and for the record; the only reason people talk so much crap on the 7D is because they're too afraid to try it, and too afraid to admit that the $10,000 they just spent on their Sony PMW-EX3 and 35mm adapter was a complete waste when they could have had an insanely sick HDSLR rig for a total of around $4,000. (7D body is $1800, some kit lenses put you up to around $2600 total, then factor in your rig and audio recording solution like the H4n and you will be up around $4,000)

7D > XHA1, HVX200, PMW EX3 / EX1

By how much? Massively in some areas of performance, marginal in some, not at all in others. All the cameras have their strengths and weaknesses. Ultimately, if you want a very clear, very film-like look - go for the 7D. If you want to be covering live events for broadcast this camera is not for you. It records up to 4GB files at a time then stops and you need to start again - it's more for filmmaking than anything.

Jello Vision, rolling shutter, etc... Look this up, the "jello-vision" crap people bicker about is a common problem on the RED ONE as well, AND the EX3. It's what happens when you have a single chip jamming so much into it amongst other factors... Think about it this way - 18 megapixels are being down-ressed to roughly 2 megapixels... It's not as stable as a video camera (thats why they have rigs available) and it's not entirely meant to be JUST a video camera which is okay... no XLR inputs (but there ARE work arounds like the Zoom H4n which is amazing I might add, and good luck ever getting that sound with your EX3, XHA1 or HVX200)... So no, the technology is not perfect yet, but then again - nothing ever is. It's a damn good tool, and any professional will find a work around for it just like we all had to when we realized something like the fact that we could only get like 16-32 minutes of footage on our expensive P2 cards (just as an example) or when we needed clunky 35mm adapters to achieve less than what the 7D can do out of the box with a less than decent kit lens.

People are just too reluctant to make a change from DVC Pro HD which is a wonderful codec but it's time to move forward. HDSLR's will only get better from here and they ARE the future of video - plus you can take amazing 18 megapixel photos.

This camera will help distinguish filmmakers more and separate the people who shoot video and photos from the professionals who do it well and do it frequently.
 
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Yeah but the 7D doesnt look any better than the HPX170 to me. Barring the amazing low light performance and the stealth factor, the 7D Does not really do it for me, I owned one for about a month and sold it to a friend when I found myself only using it to take pictures. the codec is actually very easy to work with, I just was not blown away by the image quality. Take a look at "a little mouth to feed" shot on the HVX200 with the LEX and show me anything on the 7D that comes close. Now the 5D is another story. The image on that cam blows almost everything away in my opinion. Including the 7D.
 
Michael Olsen said:
I wouldn't jump out and state that as plainly as you did. Some really big players in the event industry are using these cameras with increasing frequency. Some have gone Canon DSLR exclusively.

It's more a matter that they require different considerations that normal cams.
Click to expand...


Who is using the 7D for a LIVE broadcast?

7D > XHA1, HVX200, PMW EX3 / EX1
Click to expand...

There is no one camera that is better than all the others. I own both the 7D and the HVX200. While I think the HVX is crap compared to the newer cameras out there (EX1/3 for example)...I would never rid myself of a real video camera with professional options (XLR, audio monitoring, zebra, motorized zoom, etc etc). A HVX/EX# is superior to the 7D in many ways, and the 7D is superior to a regular pro-sumer/professional video camera in many ways as well.

In the end, it doesn't matter what camera you use - if you don't have a script, lighting, audio, and good actors, your video is going to suck - regardless if the background is blurred out or not.
 
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Michael Olsen said:
Ah...right. Either I misread the post or it had been edited between my reading it and my quoting it.

I don't know of anyone using the 7D for LIVE broadcast. For LIVE events, sure.
Click to expand...

Same question - who's using it for a live event too and in what capacity?
 
Richard J. Johnson said:
Yeah but the 7D doesnt look any better than the HPX170 to me. Barring the amazing low light performance and the stealth factor, the 7D Does not really do it for me, I owned one for about a month and sold it to a friend when I found myself only using it to take pictures. the codec is actually very easy to work with, I just was not blown away by the image quality. Take a look at "a little mouth to feed" shot on the HVX200 with the LEX and show me anything on the 7D that comes close. Now the 5D is another story. The image on that cam blows almost everything away in my opinion. Including the 7D.
Click to expand...



Youre kidding me!

Side by side comparison of the HPX170 and the 7D, 7D is the reigning champ hands down. The 7D is full 1080p and has real 35mm optics... adjustable ISO where as the HPX is stuck at 500... More controllability over light... I dont know man I think you're justifying because you didnt know how to properly use a HDSLR. No offense at all, I mean it... but watch anything on Vimeo and tell me you will get the same quality on a HPX170. Be fair about it. The HPX170 is a great camera, as is the HVX200 - but image quality is definitely 100% not better than the 7D.

http://vimeo.com/8455331

To get an image like that out of a Panasonic HVX / HPX camera, You will have a huge clunky 35 adapter on that HPX and you will get a good image quality at 720 (rated actually at like 540 lines of resolution which is just BARELY above SD) vs full 1080p on the 7D... zoom in past 100% and tell me which one artifacts first.

I know seasoned DP's who are switching away and buying 7D's - in fact I know people who work on the show Forensic Files and they're switching to the 7D's because of the quality of image being so much better.

You say the 5D is another story - yes it has a full frame sensor but ultimately if you get a couple L series lenses you won't ever even care about that. I'm telling you, the 7D is statistically much better and sharper than the HVX200 / HPX170, it has better capabilities - it's all what the DP does with it. I've seen good things shot on both sides of the argument and crap shot on both sides, but STATISTICALLY the 7D is much better image quality.

Heres Why:

-1080p vs 720p
-540 lines of resolution vs an 18 megapixel sensor down res-ing to right under 2k... no brainer which looks sharper there...
-L series lenses vs clunky 35mm adapters that are not easy to use and you can't get into tight spaces.
-Adjustable ISO (100-12800 Extended ISO) vs Fixed ISO at 320 or 500
-White Balance in increments of 100 from 2500-10000 vs Auto White Balance / Balancing off of white cards only
-Storage Medium is more efficient / less expensive than the HVX200 P2 Cards

Sorry Panasonic - Someone finally beat you at the Film look... I have been in love with Panasonic since I owned my DVX and HVX for the past 5 years, and it pained me more than anyone to admit it but Canon wins this fight.
 
Michael Olsen said:
Ah...right. Either I misread the post or it had been edited between my reading it and my quoting it.

I don't know of anyone using the 7D for LIVE broadcast. For LIVE events, sure.
Click to expand...

Not saying anyone is using it for live events for broadcast - I'm just simply trying to say if you need a camera to perform that task the 7D is not it
 
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