To 7D or not to 7D?
- Thread starter scenedirector
- Start date
scenedirector
Well-known member
Great dialogue here guys!
No, the 7D isn't the end all. Yes there are shortcomings with it, but also a lot of strengths.
I just wanted affirmation that it would be a smart move to progress from my A1/SGBlade to a 7D, HDV w/35mm d.o.f. to HDSLR.
No, the 7D isn't the end all. Yes there are shortcomings with it, but also a lot of strengths.
I just wanted affirmation that it would be a smart move to progress from my A1/SGBlade to a 7D, HDV w/35mm d.o.f. to HDSLR.
Canon XH-G1s vs 7d
Canon XH-G1s vs 7d
I was really looking to get the Xh-G1s or the Xh-G1... g1 was a little bit cheaper. It was the best quality HD image i personally saw for the least amount of money. No stuttering in the images, smoothest pan/tilt. I was feeling good about it and the 5,000+/- i was hoping to spend on it.. then i was betwixt by the 7d. Bought it about 2 weeks ago and im happy with my decision.
I Wish the HDMI out was 1080p and that there wasnt the 4g limit to recording. but these things i can deal with. It has really bumped up the quality of my film making. You have to work with it differently than a regular camcorder, as other people have mentioned. I used to do some Live event stuff on 3chip Sony SD gear, and well ill pretty much have to give most of that up. Now since i sold my SD gear and invested soley in the 7d. To me, not a big deal i was doing live event stuff soley for the cashola.. so far im working on shooting more shorts and features.. really where my interests lie. Some advertising and music videos.. they all work well with this camera. I already have some promo and industrials lined up with this camear. Perfect fit and the clients are thrilled with the camera quality/performance.
And if in a few weeks or months Magic Lantern has the firmware to get full HD out of HDMI that little bit will be enough to seal the deal as this being the best HD Dollar value in my eyes.
Good luck with your decision, its not easy but hopefully you'll go the route that serves you best.
Peter
Canon XH-G1s vs 7d
I was really looking to get the Xh-G1s or the Xh-G1... g1 was a little bit cheaper. It was the best quality HD image i personally saw for the least amount of money. No stuttering in the images, smoothest pan/tilt. I was feeling good about it and the 5,000+/- i was hoping to spend on it.. then i was betwixt by the 7d. Bought it about 2 weeks ago and im happy with my decision.
I Wish the HDMI out was 1080p and that there wasnt the 4g limit to recording. but these things i can deal with. It has really bumped up the quality of my film making. You have to work with it differently than a regular camcorder, as other people have mentioned. I used to do some Live event stuff on 3chip Sony SD gear, and well ill pretty much have to give most of that up. Now since i sold my SD gear and invested soley in the 7d. To me, not a big deal i was doing live event stuff soley for the cashola.. so far im working on shooting more shorts and features.. really where my interests lie. Some advertising and music videos.. they all work well with this camera. I already have some promo and industrials lined up with this camear. Perfect fit and the clients are thrilled with the camera quality/performance.
And if in a few weeks or months Magic Lantern has the firmware to get full HD out of HDMI that little bit will be enough to seal the deal as this being the best HD Dollar value in my eyes.
Good luck with your decision, its not easy but hopefully you'll go the route that serves you best.
Peter
William_Robinette
Shallow Member
Dude, come on. At least get your facts right if you are going to slam a camera(s) down. Your post is just embarrassingly off base.
hahah wow - what is off base? Tell me that. Are you one of those dudes who is mad that you didn't buy the 7D instead? Show me an HVX image that looks comparable to that of a 7D with L series glass (or even a kit EF lens) and I'll gladly admit that it looks just as good. Go on Vimeo.com and watch the 7D videos. Look how many people on there are saying they are selling / sold their HVX's for one. I did. I used the HVX daily for almost a year and admit that the HVX is good but it's not as good as the 7D. I also said the 7D is not perfect. IT IS a good tool, and it DOES produce a sharper looking image than the HVX with better light controllability. I have proof of mostly everything I said in the one post, and a quick internet search will prove it.
"Panasonic moved ahead with the decision to use a 960 X 540 progressive imager in conjunction with the Horizontal and Vertical Spatial Offset strategy."
ftp://ftp.panasonic.com/pub/Panasonic/Drivers/PBTS/papers/AG-HVX200.CCD-WP.pdf
540 lines of resolution. BOOM! :kali:
The only facts I stated were:
-1080p vs 720p (this is TRUE, the hvx is NOT 1080p.)
-540 lines of resolution vs an 18 megapixel sensor down res-ing to right under 2k... no brainer which looks sharper there... ( Again, True)
-L series lenses vs clunky 35mm adapters that are not easy to use and you can't get into tight spaces. (TRUE. 20+ pound HVX vs 5 pound 7D...)
-Adjustable ISO (100-12800 Extended ISO) vs Fixed ISO at 320 or 500 (TRUE. I can adjust my ISO that vastly, except in video mode it only goes to 6400)
-White Balance in increments of 100 from 2500-10000 vs Auto White Balance / Balancing off of white cards only (TRUE, I can adjust WB and the HVX cant do it in increments)
-Storage Medium is more efficient / less expensive than the HVX200 P2 Cards (TRUE, P2 cards are still around 500-600 each where as I can get a good CF card from BH Photo Video for like $100.)
Here I'll add more:
Shooting through a 35mm adapter actually dumbs the resolution down even more to that of almost DVCPRO 50 SD video, I'm not making this up at all. I just don't get how you can't really be reasonable enough to believe that something is better than the HVX. It's not the end all be all of cameras but it is great. If you want great DoF shots at high res, 7D all the way.
So what was off base again?
Lastly - I'm not slamming any camera. I'm simply saying that the HVX200 is not as good as the 7D as far as producing a sharp image. I'm shooting a fair test tonight with both cameras on the same shots. If I'm wrong I will admit it. But I won't tell you which one is which and I'll let you decide which looks better, sound good?
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Poor resolution? Have you seen it first hand? I have, I owned an HVX and I saw it first hand too and I have nice footage from it to compare to my 7D footage... everyone I show says its (the 7D) way better. It's noticeably better. Barry Green knows what he is talking about, but he's not the ONLY DP in the whole world. Why do I know of so many professional DP's who are switching to the 7D entirely?... There has to be a reason, right?
The HVX is poor resolution as well, with its spatial offsetting.
The 7D puts out a great image, but the resolution is not near as good as a full professional video camera with full 1920x1080 native chips. The 7D does not use the entire 18-megapixel chip for video.
Resolution does not necessarily make an image good. Lighting and composition would be more important in my arguement. But just from a factual standpoint, the 7D lacks in HD resolution.
Clearly it doesn't use the entire 18 megapixel chip or it would be 4 times as expensive as the RED ONE. I'm not claiming that it is a professional video camera, but it certainly produces considerably less noise and artifacts than the HVX or EX series of Sony cameras... again, I'm speaking from first hand use of all these cameras and reading tons of peoples reviews online. The only people I can find that bash the 7D are the ones who haven't used it or have never seen what it can do.
The 7D is a 1.6 crop sensor, but it doesn't seem to affect it all that much. The 5D MK II is a full frame sensor and if you put the same glass on both cameras, the 7D will shine just as well as the MKII... maybe minor differences but nothing that the average viewer will notice.
If you're calling the 7D poor in resolution, AND the HVX... two of the best cameras available... then there really is nothing that produces GOOD resolution aside from the RED ONE or actually scanning 35mm film.
Both cameras have their pros and cons. It really all depends what you mostly shoot. That should be your main reason for picking between.
However on the issue of over all out of the camera quality. The 7D does out preform the HVX. I have used both and when comparing the two on image quality alone, the 7D definitely out shines the HVX. Hands down.
Kennon and I will shoot a comparison tomorrow between the HVX, EX3, and the 7D and we will let the cameras talk for themselves.
However on the issue of over all out of the camera quality. The 7D does out preform the HVX. I have used both and when comparing the two on image quality alone, the 7D definitely out shines the HVX. Hands down.
Kennon and I will shoot a comparison tomorrow between the HVX, EX3, and the 7D and we will let the cameras talk for themselves.
Sounds good man.
I don't want to sound like an HVX hater at all, I loved mine. It does have its pros, as I've been saying. Image quality was the most important thing for me, however... so I went 7D. We'll post the comparison tomorrow sometime
2 of the best camers available...in their price range. If you move up to the next level, fully professional cameras, the quality of the picture increases as well.
For its price range, the 7D is fantastic. For the HVX, I'd argue the EX1 is superior in resolution and chip size.
Resolution might not be the most important aspect of the video - but if it wasn't important at all ... we would still be shooting standard definition.
I agree that they are two of the best *within their price range.* If given the money, I would definitely choose to shoot on a RED ONE... but not until you hit the RED ONE are you really given a camera that shines incredibly well and definitively over everything else.
Panasonic needs to develop an HVX sized camera with interchangeable lenses, records RAW files to a CF card like the RED ONE, shoots 2 or 3k and is priced under 8k. But, then again... we can't all have what we dream about.
Vince K
Well-known member
I've been a Sony Z1U user since it came out - mostly since I shoot live events when I'm not working on a film set, it's my grab 'n go video camera. It ain't the HVX, but I'm happy as shi* with it - and nope, I DON"T want adapters. :kali:
I bought the 7D in November so I could get serious about shooting my own films, and so I could get used to working with what is going to be the 'newer of the next generation' of digital cinema cams....ie Epic/Scarlet FF35 - smaller, lightweight, NOT handheld without proper rigging or stabilizer, and interchangeable lenses...this is how the pro's do it...this is how we do it on film sets...and it's how I want to do it....and to each their own - it's the beauty of the art of individualism.
It's easy to slam one cam or the other, but they all have their uses. Different tools for different jobs/ different people with different needs.
Not sure why so many can't grasp this. It shouldn't be one or the other.
Now before someone craps on me for bringing up Scarlet...I have been an avid Reduser for a couple of years, and a RED One AC for more than a year so I know the product is coming out - as late and over priced as it may turn out to be. But this is the direction I'm taking, and the 7D has done nothing but serve it's purposes for me on a daily basis to help prepare me for this.
Good luck with your decision!!
Cheers!
I bought the 7D in November so I could get serious about shooting my own films, and so I could get used to working with what is going to be the 'newer of the next generation' of digital cinema cams....ie Epic/Scarlet FF35 - smaller, lightweight, NOT handheld without proper rigging or stabilizer, and interchangeable lenses...this is how the pro's do it...this is how we do it on film sets...and it's how I want to do it....and to each their own - it's the beauty of the art of individualism.
It's easy to slam one cam or the other, but they all have their uses. Different tools for different jobs/ different people with different needs.
Not sure why so many can't grasp this. It shouldn't be one or the other.
Now before someone craps on me for bringing up Scarlet...I have been an avid Reduser for a couple of years, and a RED One AC for more than a year so I know the product is coming out - as late and over priced as it may turn out to be. But this is the direction I'm taking, and the 7D has done nothing but serve it's purposes for me on a daily basis to help prepare me for this.
Good luck with your decision!!
Cheers!
I'd say the HVX 720/60p is superior to the 7D (in the right lighting).
The HVX is technically better (no aliasing/jello etc), but nowhere close artistically... even with a 35mm adapter. the low light performance of the 7D is so much better too.
I sold my HVX rig to get a 5DII and now also a 7D... no regrets.
The HVX is technically better (no aliasing/jello etc), but nowhere close artistically... even with a 35mm adapter. the low light performance of the 7D is so much better too.
I sold my HVX rig to get a 5DII and now also a 7D... no regrets.
scenedirector
Well-known member
Vince, love the way you think.
Michael Olsen
Veteran
Exactly my thoughts and exactly the reason I bought the camera! :beer:
William_Robinette
Shallow Member
I'm one of those dudes who bought one in October. Also one of those dudes who has hundreds of hours on the DVX/HVX, and many on the Red ONEs, Varicams, F900's of the world not to mention the slew of prosumer cameras. Don't assume.
This shows you have either very little, or a very wrong understanding of how cameras produce an image. I'll give you the codec isn't full 1080p, but everything to that point is.
Canon does not start with an 18mp picture and scale it down to 1080p. (stop saying "just under 2K. You sound like a salesman. It's 1080p. Call it like it is) It skips lines in the readout of the sensor. It doesn't start off with 18mp if you are shooting video.
I'm glad your happy, but in many ways, for many projects, and on many shoots (particularly professional ones with clients on your back) it does not trump the HVX/EX1/ or heck, even the DVX.