Time to sell?
- Thread starter lordybob
- Start date
davbeisner
Well-known member
Well, that's an interesting question. Just about everything loses value over time (depreciation). So unless its a collectible item or has significant historical significance, economic logic would tell you that the sooner you sell, the more you're likely to get. The XH-A1 is neither a collectible, nor does it have any historical significance.
Next thing you've gotta think about is who would buy it: pros like us on this board would buy it as a b-cam or even an a-cam if we were upgrading from SD. Consumers who you would see on E-Bay are becoming more and more aware of the awesome, inexpensive HD cameras out there and more and more of them would understand how to use the camera. As technology gets better and better, HDV will begin to drop away (let's face it: its tape based and its got pretty high compression and the poorest of the HD chroma SS) and so HDV based cameras will become less and less valuable and not nearly as desirable.
So, my recommendation would be to sell it sooner rather than later. If its in good condition, you may be able to get as much as $2500 for it--more if it comes with lots of accessories. In six months time you may not be able to get nearly that much.
Next thing you've gotta think about is who would buy it: pros like us on this board would buy it as a b-cam or even an a-cam if we were upgrading from SD. Consumers who you would see on E-Bay are becoming more and more aware of the awesome, inexpensive HD cameras out there and more and more of them would understand how to use the camera. As technology gets better and better, HDV will begin to drop away (let's face it: its tape based and its got pretty high compression and the poorest of the HD chroma SS) and so HDV based cameras will become less and less valuable and not nearly as desirable.
So, my recommendation would be to sell it sooner rather than later. If its in good condition, you may be able to get as much as $2500 for it--more if it comes with lots of accessories. In six months time you may not be able to get nearly that much.
Scott F
Pug Life
Oh great, now you've got me thinking about selling my A1? I just bought it last September!
I think the camera will hold it's value and be relevant for a bit longer. I myself would love to gravitate to solid state technology and vowed this would be the last tape based camera that I bought.
The A1 doesn't have the culty status of the DVX, so I don't know what it's resale value would be. I got a fair price for the sale of my DVX last year, I would hope that if I sold my A1 I could get the same. But who knows....
I think the camera will hold it's value and be relevant for a bit longer. I myself would love to gravitate to solid state technology and vowed this would be the last tape based camera that I bought.
The A1 doesn't have the culty status of the DVX, so I don't know what it's resale value would be. I got a fair price for the sale of my DVX last year, I would hope that if I sold my A1 I could get the same. But who knows....
davbeisner
Well-known member
Yeah, it doesn't have the cult following of the DVX, but it is a very popular camera. If you marketed in the right places, you could get the best deal on it (i.e., sell it over at dvinfo.net or even here on dvxuser and not on E-Bay.)
Rylan Zolinski
Well-known member
I've had my XHA1 for a little over one year and plan on selling it in the near future to purchase a RED Scarlet. It really grabbed my interest since it's a 3K camera that is said to be sold at $3k (barebones) once it's released.
Raul Rooma
Member
i think that canon hdv cameras produces very nice footage,i mean A1,G1 and XL series.And whatever new beast coming out..A1 picture stays same.As i know almost
all my clients even dont' have full hd tv sets,even BlueRay players and almost all of them need SD Stuff finally then i think i can use quiet long time my A1.
so not too much worries about it.of course if U got good price for used camera,and it helps to buy new one, then always its better to use latest technology.
R
all my clients even dont' have full hd tv sets,even BlueRay players and almost all of them need SD Stuff finally then i think i can use quiet long time my A1.
so not too much worries about it.of course if U got good price for used camera,and it helps to buy new one, then always its better to use latest technology.
R
Aroon_Narayanan
Well-known member
It's a cliche, but what matters more than the camera is the person behind it. While the Scarlet is shaping up to be a great cam, if you have the A1, the Scarlet probably isn't going to revoultionize the way you make movies. Some people think DV is a thing of the past, yet there are lots of people out there making their living off of a 5-year-old camera. Talent and skill can outshine almost any resolution barriers.
dantewaters
Well-known member
LuckyStudio 13
The Tapeless One
I "predict" by next NAB (april 09) Canon will have solid state cameras for their XH series camcorders. By then, the current XH tape cameras will truly be non valuable in the used market.
Spartacus
Veteran
I was hoping for IBC in September to bring something new to have sleepless nights over
CherryTime
Well-known member
NEV0RR!!!!!!!!ONEOEN!11124124two..four..!!!
yommytacoe
Well-known member
not true at all. even though the xha1 records to tape, it still produces amazing image.
Ryanmv11
Well-known member
I agree with a lot of people here. It's the person behind the camera, not just the camera. I think the A1 will last a long time indeed. I mean yeah MiniDv tapes are starting to die, but i know a lot of people still buying the xl2 and dvx100 brand new still and not moving to HD yet. Everyone (consumer wise) is still with SD tv's. There is a lot with HD tv's but i garantee about 30%-40% of our nation has HD tv's. I film local commercials here in my town and the companies and theaters showcasing the ad ask for the video to be 4:3 SD. Even they aren't ready for HD. You can completely move your A1 to the next level with a Firestore. No tapes and still shooting HD, right? or am i wrong? i think the HDV cameras will be around and worth something for a long time.I mean soccer mom are still shooting with hi-8 and superVHS now. Yes people it's true. I see it all the time. I may not be making sense kind of off topic but to the first post. They will still be worth money for a while until the actual company retail price drops, i think. It's not late. I just bought an XH-A1 and it barely came in less than 2 days ago.:laugh: But if your ready to move on to another camera do it. That Sony PMX looks amazing! I usually don't like Sony either.
But people will always be buying HDV cams for a long time until HDV becomes to the position of superVHS or vhs cameras.Bash me down if i'm wrong.
-Ryan
But people will always be buying HDV cams for a long time until HDV becomes to the position of superVHS or vhs cameras.Bash me down if i'm wrong.
-Ryan
davbeisner
Well-known member
Hey Ryan, your post makes good sense on one level, but at the same time, I'd have to disagree with you to some extent, and here's why:
HDV by nature isn't a full HD signal. It's limited to 1440x1080 instead of the "Full HD" which is 1920x1080. It's also got a pretty tight compression rate which, for video, isn't too bad unless you're doing a lot of generations of editing. However, it also compresses sound--something that very few (if any?) other codecs do. I suppose it may last in the soccer-mom world for a few more years, but I don't see it lasting in the prosumer world much longer--i mean, seriously, even in the consumer market, what's the price difference between a brand-new HDV miniDV based camera and a brand-new AVCHD or similar codec camera recording to SSD or DVD? There's not much difference. And you pretty much never read news stories about new cameras developed with the HDV codec anymore, either.
I'd also question your take on the prevalence of HD. Sure, some of your smaller local TV stations are still running SD. I know the local NETWORKS are still running SD in Chattanooga where I'm at and they're not scheduled to make the switch to HD for about another month... I mean, football season is killing me here! But all jesting aside, I live in a REALLY small town in podunk back-woods Tennessee about 45 minutes north of Chattanooga. The average family income in my town is probably less than $20,000/year--waaaayy less. But guess what--Wal-Mart doesn't even sell SD TVs here anymore! The cheapest TV you can buy at the Wal-Mart here in my town is a 26" LCD 720p HDTV. So while there are still many households running SD, that will begin to change very rapidly. I've noticed a marked increase in old tube TVs in the thrift stores and pawn shops around my community--I mean like double or triple what it was a year ago. People are upgrading much more quickly than I think many of us give them credit for. Wal-Mart and Lowe's in my town don't even sell SD antennas for TV's anymore. While I'm certainly no professional researcher or profiler, I can guarantee you that places like Wal-Mart and Lowe's will hire pros to analyze their markets for what will sell well and avoid products that will just sit on their shelves and collect dust.
So while I think we'll see HDV and the A1 continue to be popular among consumers and your soccer-mom types, anyone looking to make a profit with the camera, especially someone who might be looking to produce stuff for broadcast, needs to be thinking about selling and moving up in the world of HD; and not just because of the whole issue of tape vs. tapeless, but more importantly, because of the inherent issues with the HDV codec.
In January when you can pick up a 3k camera for the same price as the A1 is now, I think you'll start to see A1 prices falling pretty rapidly. Why? Well, I think it might be in Canon's best interest to lower their prices at that point in order to have people continue to have interest in a far inferior product; but more importantly because in that price bracket, you're going to have a LOT of current prosumer and low-end professional A1 users who are going to want to make the switch to the Scarlet. And many of us will not have the money to own both cameras. So we'll sell our A1's in favor of the Scarlet. Simple economics tells you that as supply increases, unless demand increases simultaneously and at the same rate, you'll get a drop in prices. I would bet that very few pros, unless they're primarily RnG type shooters, would choose the A1 over the Scarlet.
Don't get me wrong--I love the A1. I use it literally every day at work (I've shot 28 tapes in the last 5 days and I'll probably shoot another 5-8 today!!). But I also see its days, at least for those of us out to make money with it, being numbered.
HDV by nature isn't a full HD signal. It's limited to 1440x1080 instead of the "Full HD" which is 1920x1080. It's also got a pretty tight compression rate which, for video, isn't too bad unless you're doing a lot of generations of editing. However, it also compresses sound--something that very few (if any?) other codecs do. I suppose it may last in the soccer-mom world for a few more years, but I don't see it lasting in the prosumer world much longer--i mean, seriously, even in the consumer market, what's the price difference between a brand-new HDV miniDV based camera and a brand-new AVCHD or similar codec camera recording to SSD or DVD? There's not much difference. And you pretty much never read news stories about new cameras developed with the HDV codec anymore, either.
I'd also question your take on the prevalence of HD. Sure, some of your smaller local TV stations are still running SD. I know the local NETWORKS are still running SD in Chattanooga where I'm at and they're not scheduled to make the switch to HD for about another month... I mean, football season is killing me here!
But all jesting aside, I live in a REALLY small town in podunk back-woods Tennessee about 45 minutes north of Chattanooga. The average family income in my town is probably less than $20,000/year--waaaayy less. But guess what--Wal-Mart doesn't even sell SD TVs here anymore! The cheapest TV you can buy at the Wal-Mart here in my town is a 26" LCD 720p HDTV. So while there are still many households running SD, that will begin to change very rapidly. I've noticed a marked increase in old tube TVs in the thrift stores and pawn shops around my community--I mean like double or triple what it was a year ago. People are upgrading much more quickly than I think many of us give them credit for. Wal-Mart and Lowe's in my town don't even sell SD antennas for TV's anymore. While I'm certainly no professional researcher or profiler, I can guarantee you that places like Wal-Mart and Lowe's will hire pros to analyze their markets for what will sell well and avoid products that will just sit on their shelves and collect dust.So while I think we'll see HDV and the A1 continue to be popular among consumers and your soccer-mom types, anyone looking to make a profit with the camera, especially someone who might be looking to produce stuff for broadcast, needs to be thinking about selling and moving up in the world of HD; and not just because of the whole issue of tape vs. tapeless, but more importantly, because of the inherent issues with the HDV codec.
In January when you can pick up a 3k camera for the same price as the A1 is now, I think you'll start to see A1 prices falling pretty rapidly. Why? Well, I think it might be in Canon's best interest to lower their prices at that point in order to have people continue to have interest in a far inferior product; but more importantly because in that price bracket, you're going to have a LOT of current prosumer and low-end professional A1 users who are going to want to make the switch to the Scarlet. And many of us will not have the money to own both cameras. So we'll sell our A1's in favor of the Scarlet. Simple economics tells you that as supply increases, unless demand increases simultaneously and at the same rate, you'll get a drop in prices. I would bet that very few pros, unless they're primarily RnG type shooters, would choose the A1 over the Scarlet.
Don't get me wrong--I love the A1. I use it literally every day at work (I've shot 28 tapes in the last 5 days and I'll probably shoot another 5-8 today!!). But I also see its days, at least for those of us out to make money with it, being numbered.
Ryanmv11
Well-known member
haha i was implying the soccer mom thing as an example of formats lasting. I wasn't being too serious on that. I mean yeah they still use those formats but i guess i was trying to make an example showing HDV will last longer than we think.And wow! I haven't been to wal-mart in a long time, i had no idea everything dropped SD tv, thanks fpr letting me know.
Where i live, which is Las Cruces NM (the second largest city in NM) the whole entire town in marketing still uses SD. So i am here with HD(V) cameras making a lot more because it's HD but i still have to down convert to SD for them. I am a field producer for a local television station, we use SD VX2100's and i also am the commercial/advertisement/web video for a local graphic company that does all the TV advertisements and theater ads, and for that work i use a Panny Dvx100.But if they want HD i use my personal HV20 before but now my A1 and we charge a little more then turn around and downconvert to SD (we have to). So basically we kinda cheating them out in a way. I mean they get a SD copy for ads, but they also get an HD copy for web or for whatever they want to use HD for. I just barely turned 17 so i am still very naive to the whole pro HD world i suppose. My apologies. I will keep my word back until i know my research haha and about the Scarlet. I would be more than happy to dish out another 3k for it. I have no problem keeping my A1 and getting the Scarlet, i just don't believe the Scarlet will be out of the box ready to shoot type of camera. I think they will sell the body for 3k but will run all the bells and whistles to get it running another 3k or more. I'll believe it when i see it. In the mean time, i'm not selling all of my equipment to wait on the Scarlet. The Scarlet will be around for a while, not like they are going to sell a limit of 1,000 and that's it forever. I'll see how they handle with the prosumers when they come out and decide if i want to invest into another camera that will probably be outdated within 2 months by other cameras.
Where i live, which is Las Cruces NM (the second largest city in NM) the whole entire town in marketing still uses SD. So i am here with HD(V) cameras making a lot more because it's HD but i still have to down convert to SD for them. I am a field producer for a local television station, we use SD VX2100's and i also am the commercial/advertisement/web video for a local graphic company that does all the TV advertisements and theater ads, and for that work i use a Panny Dvx100.But if they want HD i use my personal HV20 before but now my A1 and we charge a little more then turn around and downconvert to SD (we have to). So basically we kinda cheating them out in a way. I mean they get a SD copy for ads, but they also get an HD copy for web or for whatever they want to use HD for. I just barely turned 17 so i am still very naive to the whole pro HD world i suppose. My apologies. I will keep my word back until i know my research haha and about the Scarlet. I would be more than happy to dish out another 3k for it. I have no problem keeping my A1 and getting the Scarlet, i just don't believe the Scarlet will be out of the box ready to shoot type of camera. I think they will sell the body for 3k but will run all the bells and whistles to get it running another 3k or more. I'll believe it when i see it. In the mean time, i'm not selling all of my equipment to wait on the Scarlet. The Scarlet will be around for a while, not like they are going to sell a limit of 1,000 and that's it forever. I'll see how they handle with the prosumers when they come out and decide if i want to invest into another camera that will probably be outdated within 2 months by other cameras.
Kevin Shaw
Member
HDV is a clever compromise which will remain useful for many years to come in spite of frequent predictions to the contrary, and the XH-A1 is a decent camera which will likely hold its value for some time yet. As discussed things could change if/when Canon offers a good solid state alternative at a similar price, but until then competing manufacturers' products aren't rendering the XH-A1 obsolete.
Raul Rooma
Member
Even when canon releases new XH style camera with solid state recording,i guess older XH (as for now new XL series) also compatible with presets etc.So anyway its good B-roll camera then.I'm not never in such a hurry,that i need my clips right in the way to edit.maybe tv stations and news stuff need quick tapeless workflow..but not me.like this all firewire recorders and so...i think to spent this money maybe to audio gear...what works well with next generation camcorders..So tape recording isn't problem for me.No reason to jump over new camera ..and then again.enyway technology moves so fast.
Best Regards
R
Best Regards
R
Popsiclestand
Well-known member
If, like so many new products that come to market, the price point for solid state is higher than most indie filmmakers can afford (which I predict it will be for a while), then HDV will still be relevent. Just like some people still shoot SD on the DVX100 series or the XL series.