C300: Thoughts on using a stabilization gimbal?

D

DDirector

Veteran
Ive been wanting to get smoother footage with my C300.
About 80% of the time I'm out doing it handheld, doc style.

Its great for most of the stuff I shoot, but more and more now, I would prefer to have a stabilization gymbal. Like the Defy G12 or DJI Ronin.

The biggest problems I can see, is when swapping lenses or zooming.
With this Id use three lenses (Tokin 11-16, Canon 17-55, Canon 70-200).
Balancing after every swap seems like it would be a hassle. Or zooming with the 17-55 as it does extend.
Will it be a problem?

10lb gimbal plus a 10lb camera, I probably need to start working out.
I looked into a steadicam vest, but hearing reviews, and seeing it in action, it doesnt seem practical.

Occasionally I would like to throw my camera on a tripod or slider. Would taking it on/off pose a problem for balance or anything else?

Lastly, how would I record audio?
The XLR ports are connected to the LCD. And that would have to be attached to the camera so I could use an on camera mic. But, I dont think it will all fit on the rig.


Do you think it would be a good idea to have the Redrock finger wheel control to be used as a zoom controller?
*Id probably get and use the dual pixel update on the C300 for focus.



Its something Ive been wanting for a while now, and if I can resolve these possible problems, I may just get one.
 
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A friend of mine who also has a C300 went in on a system that included the Ronin, Red Rock Micro wireless FF and paralinx arrow. We've used in on two jobs so far. In our situation we've left one C300 rigged on the gimbal completely stripped down (evf module as well) and timecode synced to the other camera and audio. With a wide angle constant volume lens like the canon 16-35mm it's pretty amazing. We've also used the canon Cine 24mm with great results. I can't imagine fitting a 70-200mm on the gimbal, I think it'd make it far too front heavy to balance.

Our current setup is mounting the C300's lcd unit on the cross bar, but it limits the movements you can do. No briefcase mode unless you get the factory upgraded cable extenders.

Like steadicam or anything else it needs a team to run properly. Switching back and forth from gimbal to off gimbal would be tricky if you have the camera rigged up for handheld. You have to strip everything off the camera including the baseplate and eye piece. The weight is considerable, you'll want an assistant for sure just to take it between takes. I think it's just over 15lbs, an easy rig will be our next purchase.
 
I just rented a Ronin to test with my C300 rig. After quiet a bit of work (two hours the first time), I was able to get the C300 and a 16-35L to balance near perfect.

The rig is too heavy to hold without support. I tried an EasyRig, and it helped, but decided to go with a Glidecam vest, arm, and a Cinemilled bracket to hold it.

The Ronin can handle small changes in balance without re-adjustment, but the penalty is battery life of the ronin.

I do not think going from a 16-35 to the 70-200 would work without re-balance. Wide seems to be better anyway with these rigs.

You can definitely run the audio module on the cross bar as JM stated. I did have my LCD cables lengthened just for such an occasion.

I had good results using the DPAF upgrade. Not sure how well the finger wheel would work.
 
I use C300 with MoVI M10 - total weight about 14lb. If I did it again, I'd never use Ronin; it's too heavy. I'd probably go with Letus Helix - in fact, I bought it but returned quickly. I probably wait for about half a year before trying it again. IMO for the moment Helix is far from being a mature (or close to such) product. But Helix's design has a huge advantage - it takes significantly less effort to frame eye-level shots whereas the MoVI/Ronin and the rest of now "traditional" gimbal designs requires to move the gimbal much higher for such angles.

I attach several images of my setup. It took me a while to figure out what and how to rig it.
movi-rig-2.jpg
movi-rig-1.jpg
movi-rig-3.jpg
I use Canon CN-E primes. Changing lenses doesn't require any significant re-balancing with M10. I use mostly 24, 35 and 50. 35 and 50 have the same weight, 24mm is slightly heavier (+2.1 oz) but actually, M10 can handle it without rebalancing if in a hurry.

In what I do, I've never felt any need for zooming. On M10, there is no way you can use C300 LCD (not sure about Ronin). I use DP4 as my monitor (and consider using Cinemizer); Paralinx transmitter is powered from DP4. When I need sound, I use dual system recording with sennheiser mke-600 (with battery) or similar as a reference mic - it's hooked to the unbalanced mic input.

For the moment, I use just my hands/arms to hold the whole thing; I'm very far from being very strong, but with my rig I can handle uninterrupted takes of up to 6-7 minutes (max) at a time depending on the angle (see above about Helix). I can withstand up to 5-6 hours of shooting. But that's brutal. I'm waiting for the Action Products RUNNER - on RU there is (closed now) a group buy.
 
I was just eyeing the letus helix so naturally I am curious about what you saw as its shortcomings ... I can see a number of reason why I would prefer it to Defy or Ronin.
 
I'm still interested in hearing about the perceived shortcomings of the Letus helix.... It seems like an interesting device which decouples some of the axes of balance from each other.
 
ReelWorksMedia said:
+1

I have also had my hand on the trigger for months.

The helix jr also looks really interesting.
Click to expand...
Not sure if you can use the C300 on the Helix Jr. May be barebones C300 with the monitor on top handle and a short lens. I would love someone in to physically try out and let us know. C300 is a small camera meant for agility. So I don't believe in burdening it with a heavy Ronin.
 
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So, other than this news shooter review I haven't been able to find much else about the Helix. Does any one on the list have some hands on experience with one and care to post about it?
 
Mark Smith said:
So, other than this news shooter review I haven't been able to find much else about the Helix. Does any one on the list have some hands on experience with one and care to post about it?
Click to expand...

Hop over to reduser. There is a lot of ground covered about the Helix.
 
i will take delivery of a 3 axis. Helix tomorrow . The It's a decent amount of Steadicsm operating as background , I should be able to give some perspective on the two systems once I am up and running with the helix. I am optimistic about the helix but the proof will be how helix works as a stabilization device . More to follow
 
So I've been playing around a bit with the C300 on the helix. and so far so good. THe balance portion of the setup is critical just like it is with a steadicam . I haven't used the rig on a shoot yet as I am giving myself time to get familiarized and fine tune the set up. Without a doubt the camera balance and set up is the most important , and once you have that , then the rest falls into place . Right off the bat I can see where I can duplicate a lot of stuff I can do with a steadicam but with a far smaller kit that is easier to travel. As with any gimbal mount , keep the camera stripped down as possible to simplfy balance and rig weight. In the next 2 weeks I'll probably get some shooting days in with the Helix and will let you know how that goes.
 
Mark Smith said:
Ok, first run outdoors with the C 300 on the Helix . Camera balance is key and I spent some time doodling around with the balance set up. Stabilization wise , the helix is pretty darned good.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/tg7dkpeyqrt08k1/Helix test.mp4?dl=0
Click to expand...

Thanks for the footage. Which lens did you use? Did you use the LCD on top of the camera? Did you use any other easy rig/atlas rig etc with this? I am sure soon all clients will demand this kind of rig. The challenge now (for me) is to get artistic sequences in unscripted environments.

By the way there is a group buy going on in reduser forum for the Letus Helix and the Helix jr.
 
Lens was a canon 17-55 stabilization off. I can post a shot later of the camera as rigged on the helix . My basic set up right now is a small hd monitor ( it's lighter and easier to balance the rig with this than with the standard Lcd . I also rigged one of those sennheiser mke 400 mics as a sound catching device so if I had to shoot dialog the camera would have a scratch track. I did this little test run hand holding the rig - no easy rig or other assist . I transitioned a couple of times to "suitcase" mode for low angle and then back to normal eye level shooting mode. My framing sucked a few times due to exterior light obscuring the monitor . What I like is the ability to out the helix in a medium sized pelican case - it's far easier to travel than my steadicam and almost as effective . If you really need to load up a camera with accessories for a complex tracking shot - you'll want to use a steadicam .
 
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