Thoughts on the Olympus Pen for serious video work?

S

Snapper123

Well-known member
Hey guys, this is pretty important because the holidays are coming up and I need answers, but have any of you guys had any experience with the video mode on the Olympus Pen?

Basically, I'm upgrading from my T2i; I don't want to hack mine and for the longest time, every single tiny feature of the 60D has tremendously spoken to me and I'm 100% positive that I want to change cameras. However, the Olympus Pen was one camera that I had to choose between with getting my T2i, and looking back on it, I completely wasted 6 months fooling with the T2i when I could have at least enjoyed the tiny Olympus Pen as both a pocket camera and a learners camera; it has all the features of a 7D as a plus.

However, right now, my time is a bit past "learners" as the T2i at least has taught me a few things (with me literally never using it because I dislike the DSLR size and since I use my 1.8 lens exclusively, I hardly ever get to use it recreationally because of the lack of IS). This is where the Olympus Pen still rides my thoughts; it has built-in IS and that means you can use prime lenses for general recreational and casual work for video mode, and it can't help but also come in handy for the professional field. The problem is however is that the only feature that divides the Olympus Pen from say the 7D is it only does 720P resolution video. As it is, I can barely get a 720P clarity out of my 1080P videos from the T2i; it seems with digital technology, that digital video is never even the full resolution of what it records to.

So in all honesty, what is my best bet, the $350 Olympus Pen or the $1,000 60d?

Here's my situation;

- For the next couple of months, I'm backpacking across a major city on foot, hoping to make a documentary on the homeless, the sick, and the economy in the process. I also want to try my best to shoot commercials for small businesses and videos for local bands either for free or for a very low price as both practice and a bit of a money earner, whatever sort of projects I can get.
- I need a camera that's both pocketable in a large jacket pocket, to be non-conspicuous in a rough, possibly violent community.
- I need a stable camera (built-in IS) because I'll need to use prime lenses almost exclusively in video mode, for quick indoor interviews where I simply don't have any other tools to work with but the camera and the lens.
- I need good camera quality for the possibility of a television or small-screen cinema showing, but most definatly for 720P sized Youtube purposes.
- I'd prefer built-in manual audio so that in the more focused of times, the simplest I'd have to do is slap a microphone on top; with the situation, I just can't pull out 14 pieces of equipment at all times.

So what do you truly think I should get? For the purpose, I'm thinking that the 720P, built-in IS, pancake lens range, size features of the Olympus Pen would serve me best for this purpose. The possibility of a pocketable, non-conspicous camera is laughable without it, and the 20mm 1.7 Panasonic G seems like the perfect lens for that. Thing is, having a 60D is pretty much the complete film camera - 1080P, 24P, manual audio, probably better codec, more professional appeal - and no doubt it's a better tool in official commerical and music video making. At the end of the day, while I'd love to have a pocketable prime lens camera that I can whip out and take a quick photo or video, I could indeed also carry around the 60D in the backpack and I could probably still use it quite often on professional projects and interviews. So which one? $350 Olympus pen + 20mm 1.7 + IS + 720P = $600 : $1,000 60d + Whatever lens + Manual Audio + 1080p = at least $1,500.

Or...possibly both cameras?
 
If you want a pocket camera get it. If you want to work forget it, you're wasting your money.
 
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Having trouble seeing what the problem with your t2i was? You don't like that fact you can't use a longish prime without camera shake? How effective do you anticipate the Pen's IS to be? The 60Ds?

Every day here there are hundreds of post by people fretting over what equipment to buy instead of actually working on their craft. The best camera available is the one sitting next to you. Especially if that camera sitting next to you is a t2i with magic lantern installed.

And if you're shooting run and gun documentary and need something you can stash in your pocket, why not something like an HF S100? That'll be easier for one-person doc production than any dslr/point and shoot.
 
a few months back, when the GH13 hack appeared, I considered getting a hackable GF1, with the 20mm f/1.7 pancake, as a cheap but decent pocketable solution for casual everyday use

in the end, I didn't get it

the biggest problem was that with a low-res LCD, you just can't get your focus right (in terms of DoF, f/1.7 on m43 is like f/2.1 on APS-C, so more than shallow enough for most situations)

the olympus pen e-pl1 has a 230Kdot screen (320x240x3)

if you want a small camera with a big sensor, you might want to consider a GH2
 
Well, my main problem is that I think the absolute best way to learn composition and how to capture beauty is to simply have a camera that you can have fun with. I wouldn't doubt it if all the very experienced and talented filmmakers here started out with a tiny little DV camera that they could truly grab it, take it absolutely everywhere without the need of a huge camera bag or a bunch of lenses, and who knows, they probably just shot street lamps and faces all day. But the honest truth is that I feel like you can't really skip steps when it comes to this sort of thing, I personally did and I bought the T2i; I honestly feel like I haven't gotten to do anything with it. But yet, I got a small Handicam last year for christmas and I created more in a day by simply swinging it around and letting the IS do all the work and loving the zoom range, than I have for the past six months trying to figure out all the perfections with the T2i, and trying find situations where I can actually use a non-IS, non-zoom camera for video. Sadly, it was the Handicam that I returned quickly.

So now I'm really trying to regain that and I want to start all over again. I truly want a pocketable camera that in all honesty has a bit of depth of field to it, I do like having an arsenal of manual features like the Olympus Pen has, I've tested it's IS before and it actually works - the only thing I'm afraid of is that it wouldn't be compatible with the Lumix lenses - and they also shot that entire commercial with the Pen's so it's not like the codec must be horrible. But even then, I honestly wouldn't mind having a pocketable camcorder either if I could find one, I feel like zooming is something I'm very creative with, camcorders also have IS, they have huge zoom ranges, most of them already have 1.8 lenses built in, and it seems to be another area where you can't exactly go wrong. But again, I'd like one that was small enough to fit in like a hoodie pocket, if they make em. I'm just trying to find the perfect tool for casual video work, and I just know that a non-IS camera is not it.

But with professional work and the projects I may take on where I need every ounce of quality, who knows, that's where I'm also thinking about upgrading to the 60D or keeping the T2i - they are also small cameras that easily fit into a camera bag that I can also keep on my body (in a backpack) and in that same backpack, where I can fit lenses, a gorilla pod, possibly a mini-dolly, a white balance/exposure card, filters, ect ect all in the backpack, along with everything I need like clothes and mess. I'm not trying to escape from that, I want that equipment and personally for certain projects, I'd be using that equipment no matter if I had a DSLR or a Hello Kitty 50$ camcorder, but it's really the question of what specific camera would suit me best.

-If I needed to keep the T2i/upgrade to the 60D, it would stay in my backpack completely unless I had a professional shoot being payed for (probably will be once a day at most). I just can't use the camera elsewise as it's shaky as hell no matter what and it's too big to whip out of the pocket or backpack if you see something quick you need to shoot.

-If I had a tiny pocketable camcorder, I'd have it out every 5 seconds recording everything I see, using tons of zoom, letting IS do all the work, taking advantage of what's probably a built in 1.8 lens, and generally just having alot of creative fun with it on the go. It's also a possibility to use it as a B-camera on professional works.

-If I had a in-breed camera like the Olympus Pen, it'd be somewhat like a two-in-one. I'd have IS, depth-of-field, bunch of things except zoom. With this camera, I could very possibly cut out the option of carrying around two cameras, and simply use this one for every bit of my needs (using the IS 20mm 1.7 for my recreative needs, professionally too.) Overall it seems like a choice that's directly in the middle and may be the best of all.

But I just don't know. If I keep the T2i/upgrade to the 60d, I without a doubt need a tiny b-camera that I can have fun with. But if I chose an Olympus Pen, who knows...it could be a serve-all...seems possibly pocketable:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EnEP41U1dgM&feature=related
 
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Well the thing is, I'm not sure I'd agree that it's easy to carry around. For one, the only lenses you can use without a tripod are the IS lenses and they're big as a cow, they don't ever have fast apertures, and the smaller ones don't even have good ranges, which are also without constant aperture meaning you can't zoom during video mode *an effect I honestly love incorperating, much like on the very well done Theater Class series by Brandon Rogers*. A $2,500 2.8 IS L lens is the equivalent to a $400 camcorder's lens. To me, that just limits my creativity like crazy and it both ruins how I feel about the camera itself, how limited I feel in what I need to do, and on top of that, the big bodies of the DSLR's and the lenses both don't make me feel any better. Like I was saying earlier, I got one of those $400 Sony Handicams that are about the size of a large cell phone for christmas last year, and I literally had a ball with it - I only upgraded because I thought that I was going to have a plathora of DSLR projects to take on and I thought the DSLR's would also be fairly portable, cheap, and that there would be a solution for those of us who are on a budget - the reality is that just about the only place for these cameras are in the studio or in a set up that might as well be a studio, and if the filmmaker has enough patience and equipment to deal with prime lenses or enough patience money to deal with L lenses - I have neither.

Like, with the camcorder, one day I was riding in the car and I was zooming in and out of street signs on this strip of businesses where there's a bunch of sex shops and bars, and "Here comes Santa Claus" was playing on the radio, absolutely no sound interuption, and I was able to capture these businesses and signs with such a unusual aesthetic of coarse the camera zooming in and out and it had a constant aperture of coarse and the exposure wasn't dancing or anything, and after I captured all that, I ran it through Windows Movie Maker and I chopped it up and used some slow motion effects on different signs and stuff, used the original song on the radio for the sound, and I incorperated a couple random sound samples over that like of screaming and car crashes, and at the end of the video was this final shot I got of this church that was in the middle of this whole area and overall, to me, that was creating art. I wasn't focused on how good the quality was; it was sucky and blocky. I wasn't focused on how good the exposure was; the camera honestly seemed to have an amazing auto-exposure mode that didn't dance at all, and it's light coverage seemed great. But in that I created something that even shocked me at how effecting it was and I felt like I truly had a knack for taking a camcorder and making something that I felt was art. And I haven't been able to do that since.

So I think that's where I may truly re-buy one of those pocket camcorders I fell in love with. The real question is that professionally, I'm not sure what route to take for any small projects I may take on along the way or if I truly need depth of field or quality for interview work. To be honest, I'm only going to do minimalistic bare-boned projects; I'm not going to be incorperating special effects or what not, if I do any commercials or music video's, they'll be very DSLR-documentary style and that's about it. So in that sense, what to choose, really? I've invested so much into DSLR's - 72mm filters, a remote, batteries, all kinds of crap so professionally, I wouldn't mind sticking with the 60D, but I absolutely hate how shaky the DSLR's are with prime lenses and simple rigs, which I always use, and in that sense buying the Olympus Pen that has decent built in IS as my professional camera may be the right choice. Heck, I'd be able to use it as a pocket camera too. So I really just don't know. I sort of have a specific purpose that to be honest, the T2i just has never filled it...
 
Well , sounds like you're sold on something like the PEN, buy it !! but keep your T2i because it does has the capabilities to create pro work... and you would get laughed at showing up to a paying gig with a PEN.

You're basically asking for the car equivalent of " need a car that goes 200mph but can tow 10k lbs and carry a 4x8 sheet of plywood. oh yeah I also want it to have Lambo doors" sound like you have the need for 3 different cameras.

Your T2i is very capable, you just need to learn how to use it properly.
 
you can use other lenses without IS even for handheld, just not a 50mm, that's just too long
 
Snapper123 said:
I wouldn't doubt it if all the very experienced and talented filmmakers here started out with a tiny little DV camera that they could truly grab it, take it absolutely everywhere without the need of a huge camera bag or a bunch of lenses, and who knows, they probably just shot street lamps and faces all day. But the honest truth is that I feel like you can't really skip steps when it comes to this sort of thing, I personally did and I bought the T2i;
Click to expand...

I would say most of the very experienced and talented filmmakers here started with, comparative, tanks on their shoulders. At the very least a DVX-100. If you feel not having a consumer camera with an entire laundry list of thing that it can't do is a "step" you skipped then I think you may have missed some other steps as well. Whether you do this as a passion or as a career I'll let you know creating good images is not a point and shoot process. Try lugging a tripod, monopod, DVX, extra batteries, tapes, wireless setup, and a mic stand on your vacation for 3 days in oppressive summer heat then let me know how hard the T2i is to shoot "fun" with.

[video]http://kgimedia.blip.tv/file/2773555/[/video]
 
Well, the thing I come across in filmmaking very often, and I mean no offense to anyone with this, is that filmmakers and videographers tend to care more about what their equipment looks like than what it can actually do or how easy it is to do it. My opinion is that I could take a Gorillapod (or another like device), a mini-dolly, and at most some reflectors or a small soft white light and make simple, to-the-point, professional looking interviews, commercials, ect ect. I've taken videos of junk around my room that has turned out more professional looking than 50% of the commercials I see on television, and that's simply what these cameras - all cameras to be exact - can do. We see it every day on Youtube, and anyone who thinks that professional works can't be captured in a minimal, natural environment is just a bit silly. It just takes rules and a willingness to set up shots with just as much care, like anything does, and since I'm on both a budget and a portability factor, those are the rules I'd rather employ than to dive deep into the other side of the scale. Long story short, if one of my clients wants a bright window to be seen in their commercial, they can shove it.

And taking into account the camera used to do this - most any of them can. Any of the cheap high-def camcorders out there have good technology behind them - minus the numbers and minus the depth of field, which for me, is sometimes a good thing. Camcorders aren't the useless devices people make them out to be, they're both fun on the go and useable for many types of looks. Then there's simply DSLR's, the cameras that, as the only big difference, have depth of field. I'm not denying that I want to keep that choice on me at all times - again, I want to upgrade to the 60D as there's a billion features in it I'll love much better and it's only $100 more. But the Olympus Pen, with it's 7D features in a pocketable body and pretty good 720P quality is really shaking all that up.

It's like:
-Do I get a camcorder and a Pen?
-Do I get a camcorder and a 60D?
-Do I get a 60D and a Pen?
-Could I just get a Pen?

It's like three different combinations, and it's a very tough choice. The cheap camcorders all have super focal length ranges, great apertures, IS on the go, and overall, I'd have so much fun with one just messing around when I'm not working or if I need to grab a quick, grungy shot for some sort of self-project. The Pen is a very professionally designed 720P DSLR with all the features of a 7D, and the miracle of built-in IS - a miracle in any situation, casual or professional. The 60D is to me, a souped-up T2i with some amazing features - swivel screen, improved exposure modes, extensive white balance and ISO numerals, built-in level, manual audio, number screen on top, built-in photo editing, ect ect. I simply need those features and I'll be upgrading either way. But I'm completely torn between all three choices and I only want one camera, two at the most.

But yeah, the reality is that like I said, I'll be backpacking across a city for a month or two, homeless. I have a thread about it somewhere with the full story, but I simply am going to be filming a grungy self-documentary as a hobby work, with a potential marketing factor afterward, and on the side, I'll be trying my best to give out business cards at small, friendly businesses and music venues in the area to see if anyone would want a small project done so that I can earn enough money to basically eat and live. I'll only have me and a large backpack, and I only need the equipment that will get me through this career choice, nothing more. That's just the unchangable situation and I'm only trying to choose the best choice of what camera will require the least amount of IS-solving equipment.

But one suggestion I'm really curious about too; is the 35mm really alot less shaky? I know that my biggest problem is I couldn't begin to imagine using my 50mm on something like a gorillapod-turned-shoulder rig, as I tried it and the result was horrible. Would a 35mm truly make that possible?
 
Snapper123.

Sounds like you already know more than most of us... go get the camera you want.

If you don't like the T2i then the D60 won't make you happier since its pretty much the same camera with a few improvements.

For some of us having a nicer rig than a point and shoot is not about looking cool , its about getting the results you want, and being efficient in attaining those results, sometimes it means having a bigger rig.

And for your situation , its probably best to get the PEN and a small camcorder. that should get you as close to what you say you want without the bulk.
 
I'm telling you, don't have your mind set on a digital camera for video just because the canons are popular right now. If you're looking for something small that records HD, check out Canon's Vixia camcorder series. It's all card based, weighs about a pound, and the footage is great. I got an HF s100 on eBay for $415 and its been a great supplement to my t2i.

If you're going to be homeless how are you planning on charging batteries/dumping footage??
 
As a 550D owner i can say its not bad but my advice to you would be make your mind up if its the DSLR or consumer cam rought you want , if its DSLR the PANA GH2 is what i would get at present,if its consumer cam a 700 series pana, hard to say coming from a canon fan but facts are facts.
 
I agree with nicksnow and flinty....the hfs canon's are great (if you zoom all the way in from a distance, your subject will isolate pretty well from the background...not dslr shallow, but pretty nice). The GH2 should be awesome as well....my GH1 was fantastic for shooting on the go (evf for those bright days that you don't get with the Canon dlsr) If I were in your shoes though, I'd get the HFS200 or TM700, or the top of the line Sony cosumer cam. All of them are underrated IMO for what they do!
 
If you get a Pen, at least get the E-p2, which apparently has manual video controls. Gh2 is a significantly better camera, though (better than Pen, t2i, or 60d -- at least for video, it is.) It sounds like you'd be more happy with a TM700, though, rather than a dslr.

I think you should take these other people's advice seriously. I understand the appeal of impromptu shooting, but discipline and preparation are important as well. I guess I'd recommend keeping the t2i for more formal work, and getting a Panasonic TM700 to carry around in your coat pocket. (That's not to dismiss the capabilities of the tm700, but it is quite convenient as a shoot-around camera.)
 
Based on your situation I recommend a GoPro HD and 30 to 40 batteries. Also when you tell your next client to "shove it" could you please forward my information as I still have a mortgage and have no issues with double charging a client for the cost of ND/Color correction gels. You as a homeless videographer will no doubt get other gigs I used to steal from brick and mortar video companies as my studio is in my basement and I have no employees. Your prices should be that much better then mine because you don't even have a basement.

Can good work be done with a PEN? Yes. Can repeatable exacting professional work be done every day with a PEN? No. Want to prove me wrong? Try it. Just don't get mad when your clients upgrade to a pro or get their nephew with his iPhone to do it instead.
 
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