Thinking about selling 5D and lenses and buying 60D
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DavidBeier
Veteran
???
The 600D is $800 at the 60D is $900 (at Sammy's camera and B&H). How does that become 3/4?
Just to offer a counter perspective, I recently got the 60D and I DO use the top LCD (more than I thought I would really) and find the "native" ISOs to be cleaner and worth while.
STRONGLY disagree here. I was all set to buy the 600D because I REALLY wanted that crop mode (I'm still so jealous of it). I went in, tried them both out, and I when I saw that the 60D was only $100 more, I just couldn't resist getting it. It feels WAY more robust. The case feels MUCH MUCH sturdier compared to the 600D which feels like a toy in comparison. Many reviewers assumed the 60D was metal because of how good it felt and only learned otherwise from the specs. Holding both really got me to think about the kind of jobs I would be doing and made me wonder if it might hurt me with some clients that my camera looked/felt more consumer-ish. For only $100 more, it seemed worth it to have what felt like the more professional camera.
Very cool feature that I wish they'd add to the 60D via firmware.
Ah, but just as you like the convenience of not having to switch lenses, I like the convenience of not having to pull out a damn gray card. More than that really, I like being able to adjust my white balance in any given scene. I usually don't want my white to be totally white. I want to push it a little one way or the other and there's nothing like being able to just dial in the Kelvin rating. I got used to this on the EX1 (and HVX200 in a more limited sense) and I simply can't give it up.
I own the canon 60d with :
tokina 11-16
canon 17-40
canon 50 f1.8 metal connection first manufacture
sigma 30mm f1.4
Just finished a documetaire about 40 min and just start to a movie 70 min
The 60d is very sharp I doubt if sharper is necessary and in the lowlight scenes it does do very good job I doubt that you get desire to 5d connected to lowlight or sharpness
Only what I miss is the dynamic in the colors 4:2:2 would be wonderful I'm used to be work with the hvx200
tokina 11-16
canon 17-40
canon 50 f1.8 metal connection first manufacture
sigma 30mm f1.4
Just finished a documetaire about 40 min and just start to a movie 70 min
The 60d is very sharp I doubt if sharper is necessary and in the lowlight scenes it does do very good job I doubt that you get desire to 5d connected to lowlight or sharpness
Only what I miss is the dynamic in the colors 4:2:2 would be wonderful I'm used to be work with the hvx200
Thanks guys for chipping in. Yeah the value on 60D is better than 600D. So no reason to get the 600D that doesn't even have native ISO's. btw saying that native ISO's aren't cleaner is like saying 5D MKII ISO's aren't cleaner than crop ISO's. I'm not going to jump on either way just yet, have to choose carefully 
bronxjragon
Well-known member
This is very spot on. I went to BHPhoto today because I went to return my t2i and was going to decide between a t3i or 60D. The t3i body feels hollow, the 60D is very robust. The 7D feels like a tank though so don't expect too if you think it'll be closer to the 7D!
As a videographer more than a photographer my mind was telling me to go with the t3i because of the crop function, but in the end I'm going to get a few lenses anyway -- was never going to just stick with one or two wide angles and use the crop mode to cover lets say a 50mm or 85mm focal length.
For me it was coming down to t3i crop mode vs 60D body. The 60D body won and I'm loving this camera very much during our first night together : ) Coming from a Panasonic GH1, this is like heaven. m4/3 sucks lol
David W. Jones
Veteran
M4/3 sucks, NOT!
I keep a couple of Canon bodies as well as a GH13 in my arsonal, but I can tell you after shooting with the AF100 since December, that there is nothing wrong with shooting with a micro 4/3 sensor camera. Bottom line... It's the Indian, not the arrow! If you can't make great pictures with any modern camera in 2011, it's not the camera's fault.
All the Best!
Dave
bronxjragon
Well-known member
Okay true, m4/3 is great for video and a GF1 with a pancake lens make an EXCELLENT combination. But you don't get best of both worlds with the Panasonic DMC-GH1/2 series. Photos are almost always hit or miss, but video function is excellent. From my one day use with the 60d so far the video function does feel very tacked on.
So although I was originally planning to sell my pancake lens to clear out my m4/3 collection, I think I will keep it as it makes a nifty solution for really on the fly stuff.
But Canon build quality is just top notch, makes Panasonic look like toys.
David W. Jones
Veteran
There is nothing wrong with the build quality of the GH series cameras, or their ability to capture still photos. I've made some pretty nice photos with nothing more than a Quaker oatmeal box pinhole camera. It's sad that so many are eager to jump ship and purchase the next latest greatest got to have it camera, when they have yet to master the camera they already have in their hand.
Ben Totman
Active member
welcome to 2011, now its less about creativity and skill, and more of an arms race, it is sad.
DavidBeier
Veteran
I totally agree that skill and learning how to make the camera shine is FAR more important when so many of these cameras are so good. I back when I was an undergrad seeing DVX and HVX student films that looked better than 16mm movies made for the same class. It was so funny because I'd hear many of the people who shot 16 saying, "No matter what you do with HD, it's not gonna look as good as 16mm," even though their own films didn't look as good as many of the HD ones. The people who got great results out of 16mm or HD tended to be those who understood that both where different tools and those who learned to maximize them could do great things in either medium.
THAT SAID, 4/3 is just a tad annoying since it's not a recognized standard. The APS-C sensor (similar to the Nikon DSLR one) is about the size of Super 35mm film so the basic type of lens choices one might use in that case correspond to those cameras. It's just nice to know that the field of view that one your average cinematographer expects from a 18mm lens will look the same on a 7D or D7000. The 4/3 on the GH2 is still way bigger than the 1/3, 1/2, or 2/3 sensor that we've had to deal with in the past. It's an annoyance but not the end of the world.
Once again, I agree that it's really about the skill of the Director, DP, and operator more than the camera as all of these are some pretty amazing pieces of equipment.
THAT SAID, the build quality is WAY lower in that of the Lumix cameras. The build quality is also a big difference in the 60D vs the T3i. It's not a huge deal but it can make a difference in how one feels using the camera.
It also factors in to the business end. It's silly but as clients get more educated on the different cameras (which they are); many of us need to adapt to stay in business. I've had a number of friends who sold their 3 CCD cameras not because they wanted to (they vastly preffered working with a real video camera, DOF be damned) but because clients where going nuts for the 5Dii and 7D. We all have bills to pay. Recently, I was asked to do some video tutorials for a company my friend works at. The higher ups were initially hesitant because I only moved to LA recently and I don't have a local reputation. One thing which mollified them was that I was shooting on a 60D which, to their eyes, looked undistinguishable to the 7D which they had shot their last commercial on (and payed a lot for). This would have been harder to pull off with the T3i (which looks and FEELS a lot more consumer-ish) and would have be even worse on a GH2. I know this kind of thing shouldn't matter. If I'm making a film of my own I'd never worry about it (I'd probably rather have an EX1 than any DSLR). But I need to eat and if having a camera which is popular and widely used puts a potential client at ease, it's worth it (even if these are the same clients who really think a 5Dii is a better camera than a RED or Alexa...).
That's cheap for a 60D. The price differential here in the UK is much greater. Actually I just looked at the prices on Amazon in the US $799.95 vs $$1,134.99 that's even less than 3/4.
I have the 5DII but very rarely dial in the Kelvin numbers. I normally just stick with the pre-sets.
DavidBeier
Veteran
What happens when you don't use a pro site for pro gear. On B&H, the T3i is $799 and the 60D is $899 (thanks to a $100 instant rebate that goes through September). Samy's Camera has the same deal. Can people in the UK not take advantage of these?
Different strokes. I shot with the HVX200 for four years and the EX1 for the last year. On the HVX200, I would always white balance and then do the color temp adjustments to push it one way or another. For the EX1, I would just dial in my color temp. I know people who always like to have the camera on AWB. I know people who shoot and like having the audio levels on auto or even the focus. I like havn't more control when I shoot. I like having intermediate ISOs, a wheel for my lens aperture, and being able to dial in my color temp. It's just how I work and all three of those together are a bit more important to me than a crop function. Of course, if Canon were to get off their lazy butts and give us the crop mode in the 60D...
This is what I meant earlier too, thought the cinematographer being me. If I'm using only one sensor size (60D) it will be easier to think and see what the scene would look through the specific focal lenght. If I'm using 5D for all photography work and 60D for most video stuff, I have two sensor sizes in my mind and if shooting video one day and still next day, you can't use the images from the earlier day as your preference in your mind when thinking the right focal lenght for the shot. If I only have one camera, all the focal lenghts look the same when I shoot video and stills.
I traded my 7D for a 60D even up and people couldn't understand why. The 60D is the sweet spot in the Canon DSLR arsonal right now. That swivel screen has come in so handy I cant tell you. With Magic Lantern it becomes a fantastic little camera. Now if they could just do something about the moire 
However...I invested in Canon EOS lenses and if I were to strart from zero I would go with the GH cameras because of the issue I mentioned above.
However...I invested in Canon EOS lenses and if I were to strart from zero I would go with the GH cameras because of the issue I mentioned above.
bronxjragon
Well-known member
Okay, obviously you can get great stuff out of the GH series/ m4/3 cameras, but you can't just argue for arguing sake that its images are on par with Canon APS-C. Simply not true, no matter which way you chop and screw it.
bronxjragon
Well-known member
Whoops I was actually responding to someone else and in regards to photography
It seems that since I will get the 60D anyways, it's smartest thing to buy it first and rent the 17-55/2.8 IS and test what is the best way to shoot both video and stills and make some test what the real life difference on these cameras are. After that I can make the decision to keep the 5D or to sell it and the 16-35/2.8 II.
