C100: Thinking about purchasing a C100 MKII

M

mtx1117

Active member
My A7S died on me over the weekend. It was used mainly for events. Was wondering if anyone here has moved from an A7S to a C100 MKII and what your thoughts were? Is an external recorder necessary? I'm invested in a good amount of E-Mount glass but do still have some great EF Lenses such as the sigma 18-35 and 50mm art. My workflow is almost exclusively 1080 60P.

Thanks in advance!
 
Well, you would move to a real, functioning cinema camera....and the price just dropped to $3999....also, we have a demo C100 MK II in mint condition with just 27 hours on it for $3499.....

Jim Martin
EVSonline.com
 
Based on comparison videos I've seen online, I think external recorders for the C100 are a waste of time and money, as the differences are minimal, but that's just my opinion. But particularly for event work, which is almost always destined for the web, it has even less use than say, for narrative work where you do more extensive grading and may have a theatrical release.

If the 8 bit 4:2:0 of the A7s was fine for you, there's not much reason the 8 bit 4:2:0 of the C100 would not be fine for you as well.
 
I have to agree. I have used external recorders....and really given them a side by side...the difference is almost not noticeable at all. Not to say there isn't an advantage to shooting directly to prores. Just based on aesthetic and gradability...there is really not a difference.
 
I third this. I bought my C100and everyone I spoke with said a Ninja 2 was a must but ive seen little to no justification for it. A 64gb card cost $25 and using the AVCHD codec you can record for hours upon hours on a single card .
 
I'd say that, unless you need one yesterday, wait for the NAB ... errgh, IBC/PhotoKina.

On the other hand, whatever is announced there may not even arrive for another 4-6 months, given the current production difficulties with Sony made sensors. For a $4,000 investment for a brand new body, there's probably not going much of a write-down anyway within the next 12-18 months (doubly true since the price chop happened just this past week).

Anyway, those two showcases is something to keep an eye on.
 
Not long ago, I would have agreed that external recording on the C100 (mk 1 or 2) was a waste of time. Now that I have started shooting log, and using filters that create halation around bright light sources, I'm not so sure.

There seems to be some evidence that recording DNxHD-220x via the HDMI, the C100 is actually outputting somewhere between 8 and 10 bits. You're also getting 4:2:2 color vs the regular old 4:2:0 via the internal AVCHD.

Usually the DNxHD-220x footage looks identical to the internal AVCHD. But sometimes, the internal AVCHD exhibits typical 8-bit banding in gradients, but the DNxHD-220x footage shows gradients that are more smooth in comparison. I recently shot a wedding where the money shots were of the couple kissing and twirling in front of a rainbow. When shooting the rainbow with the tokina 11-17mm, there is quite evident 8-bit banding. Every time I see it, I wish I had been rolling on a Ninja Blade in DNxHD-220x mode, just in case that would've helped.

It's not night and day, but I do sometimes see a difference in the real world. Here's a quick teaser with the rainbow footage (at the end). I added some film grain to mitigate the banding, but you should still be able to see it: https://vimeo.com/170096662
 
Yeah, but using an external recorder to mitigate rare instances of banding, which, when filming in 8-10 bit 4:2:2 often reappears when you upload it to Vimeo/Youtube anyway, is a lot of effort for little in return.

You'd probably get more return on say, buying a lens or two, than buying an external recorder along with more hard drives.
 
Talking of Hard Drives Eric.....you hit on why people pause on upgrading to a 4K Camera.....you really need a good spec machine and lots and lots of Hard Drives...

People are so caught up with Social Media these days that everything will end up on Youtube anyway......do people even watch DVDs anymore??
 
Eric Coughlin said:
Yeah, but using an external recorder to mitigate rare instances of banding, which, when filming in 8-10 bit 4:2:2 often reappears when you upload it to Vimeo/Youtube anyway, is a lot of effort for little in return.

You'd probably get more return on say, buying a lens or two, than buying an external recorder along with more hard drives.
Click to expand...

A ninja Blade is $500 now. In addition to the connivence of external storage, you get an external monitor. My eyes are getting worse over time, to have a larger screen to view is worth the extra price. I also find it much more convent to just plug the hard drive into my computer to view the various takes without taking up space on my computers hard drive. I almost feel the C100 is dysfunctional without a Ninja Blade...... I never leave home without it.
 
EIREHotspur said:
Talking of Hard Drives Eric.....you hit on why people pause on upgrading to a 4K Camera.....you really need a good spec machine and lots and lots of Hard Drives...

People are so caught up with Social Media these days that everything will end up on Youtube anyway......do people even watch DVDs anymore??
Click to expand...

I'm not Eric, but, I never watch DVD's. My Macbook doesn't even have a DVD slot. The other question is do people buy CD's anymore. I deal with musicians professionally and they would rather have a good video on YouTube than a CD to sell. If only there were a way to make money on YouTube.
 
Thank you all so much for the responses. I've decided to rent one, I have two gigs this weekend and will put it though it's paces. If I do end up purchasing one, it's a no brainer to add the ninja blade for an additional $100.
 
Erik Naso said:
If you have a lot of Sony E mount lenses are you considering the FS5?
Click to expand...

Hey Eric, I have pretty recently invented in a bunch of E mount lenses, which I can still use on my FS7. The allure of the C100 MKII for me is autofocus and it's claimed ability to work really well in low light situations. Do you think an FS5 would serve me better?
 
EIREHotspur said:
Talking of Hard Drives Eric.....you hit on why people pause on upgrading to a 4K Camera.....you really need a good spec machine and lots and lots of Hard Drives...

People are so caught up with Social Media these days that everything will end up on Youtube anyway......do people even watch DVDs anymore??
Click to expand...
I bought an 8 TB hard drive for around $200 perhaps 9 months ago and it's just starting to fill up. And I bought a couple extra portable 2 TB hard drives for mobile use for $100 each. So around $400 on hard drives this year. Not too bad. I have a C300 Mark II, but I only shoot in 4K perhaps twice a month. So, just because you have a 4K cam doesn't mean you have to shoot in 4K. Lots of other advantages with various 4K cams than just resolution.

I haven't upgraded my computer yet either. I edit with proxies. It's a pain, but considering I typically don't edit what I film (since I freelance a lot) it's not too big of deal since I've only had to edit two 4K projects so far in the last nine months. I would like to upgrade my computer to make it easier, though. My computer is four years old now. But it's not at the top of the list of things to buy as I can manage with proxies for now.
 
ReelWorksMedia said:
I have to agree. I have used external recorders....and really given them a side by side...the difference is almost not noticeable at all. Not to say there isn't an advantage to shooting directly to prores. Just based on aesthetic and gradability...there is really not a difference.
Click to expand...

agree as well on the quality, but I also use my ninja blade as a reliable monitor and most of all, I need it when using my Zacuto rig for long handheld shooting. Don't know if a regular EVF would be better...the blade kind of adds a big rupture in the weight balance.
 
Been shooting the C100 MKI and the Ninja Blade for two years now. I shoot EPK and BTS mostly for the studios. Some pros and cons of shooting with the Blade on the C100...

Pros
1. My eyesight is not as good as it used to be and like others who have posted, I need a monitor screen to achieve critical focus most of the time, definitely always when handheld and in daylight. If I am going to have to mount a monitor anyway, why not use one that records? The Blade monitor, while not super bright, is pretty good for judging focus and with the addition of the RED Monitor Hoodman, is pretty usable in insanely bright sunlight.
2. I shoot a ton of green screen interviews and stand ups/promos. For green screen, recording 4:2:2 220 Mbps Prores HQ is superior to AVCHD
3. I deal with professional clients who have established workflows for their deliveries to the studios. They hate and want nothing to do with 4k for the most part. Giving them AVCHD files is not really an option, they like Prores or Prores HQ files, those codecs slot right into their workflows. So for me, the Blade is a money maker, it works for my situation really well.
4. It's nice to always be shooting a primary codec and a backup codec. This has saved my rear once, an SSD in the Blade went down for no reason, I was shooting green screen, I was still able to salvage the shoot by converting the AVCHD from the C100 to Prores, never heard a complaint from the on-line editor who did the keying, but I know how to properly light a green screen, which is more important than codec. Can't stress how reassuring it is to have a back up. It always makes me nervous to only shoot AVCHD, I always enable dual slot recording.

Cons
1. Extra expense, weight, cables, bulk, arms, etc. There are times when I would just love to have a good eyepiece and forgo using an external monitor. The HDMI cables snag on things, extra set of batteries to worry about with the Blade, the weight distribution makes the camera lean toward the left, etc. If I had the C100 MKII, I could do so. With the MKI, I don't really have a choice, need the monitor as even with the C-cup, the built in eyepiece is pretty lousy.
2. As far as difference to the eye, the AVCHD codec implementation in the C100 MKI and MKII is pretty good, it is hard to tell the difference between the AVCHD and Prores HQ in most circumstances, although with the right conditions, you can definitely "break" the AVCHD codec. The Prores HQ is better but you won't notice the difference in 95% of shooting situations.
3. Being dependent on SSDs is a little scarier than AVCHD cards. In my experience so far, I always thought an SSD would be as reliable as an SDHC card. They are not. I was recently in Africa shooting for two weeks on a TV series. I always format the SSD for each project abd name the file name after the project's name. I did so and the first few days were good. In the middle of the shoot though, I started getting "Skippy" a Kangaroo icon that the Blade shows when the recorder is dropping frames. Not good. I knew I had a solid AVCHD backup but I had to actually download the three days of material I had shot to the clients drives and then dump/reformat the SSD. That took care of the Skippy icon showing up and granted, we were shooting in 128F heat, dust and wind for four days in a row, it was hard on the equipment, but I have never had a problem like this with the SDHC cards in the C100. It was so hot that the screen in my Blade actually melted, a yellow blob appeared on the left-hand side of the screen. To Atomos' credit, they said I was still covered by their three year warranty, I shipped them the Blade and they just shipped it back with a new screen installed. So overall, the Blade is a good piece of kit and the company does stand behind it with decent service. When I upgrade to 4K eventually, I will buy an Atomos 4K recorder. I dislike the whole CFast card thing in the C300 MKII as my primary recording media although like AVCHD, it will serve as a good backup. But given the choice, I would much rather hand my clients 4K Prores HQ than the Canon format that they have to convert or seek out plug-ins to even look at footage.
 
Last edited:
mtx1117 said:
Hey Eric, I have pretty recently invented in a bunch of E mount lenses, which I can still use on my FS7. The allure of the C100 MKII for me is autofocus and it's claimed ability to work really well in low light situations. Do you think an FS5 would serve me better?
Click to expand...
Not if AF is important. DPAF is the king.
 
I can say I could barely do my job, or at least the BTS portion of it without DPAF. I look back at my two years worth of 5D MKIII footage and an alarming amount of the shots are "almost" in focus, but not really sharp. That's why I am off of FF sensors forever, even at a reasonable 5.6 or 7.1 F stop, very difficult to keep in focus on moving subjects, especially when walking around handheld. DPAF means that when my screen is washed out in reflection or direct sunlight, I can place the crosshairs on my subject, push the focus button and know that my clients won't be disappointed in the edit bay. I love it, has improved my BTS footage by a lot. Looking forward to more time with Face Tracking when I rent the C300 MKII some more. For cinema shooting, sure, break out the cine lenses and tape measures but for single operator doc, BTS and reality/event shooting, DPAF is a Godsend.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top