The way to write a good independent Feature is?

My 2 cents...

You can make a good movie from a so-so script, but it's not easy.

You can make a bad movie from a great script, very easily.

But if you combine a great script with a great execution -- then you have GOLD.

As a producer, my job is to get the very BEST of EVERYTHING that I can -- script, cast, crew, locations, wardrobe, the works. I always want the best script I can get.
 
@Kholi: it occurred to me that I should clarify that, at least IMO, story/script quality matters are completely genre-independent; a screwball comedy is just as capable as a 'serious drama' (or anything else) of qualifying as such. More specifically, there's absolutely no reason in my mind why "Superseeds" done well (as my hunch-ometer tells me it will be) wouldn't qualify very nicely in the great story/script department. Good writing is good writing...

Also on the subject of execution: I'll probably never actually do this but it's occurred to me to have a baseball cap made that I'd wear at all times while directing that has "EVERYTHING MATTERS" stitched onto it. Point being..well...that would be the point...

So I do agree with you Kholi (and David) on that - every single aspect of a production is very, very important, and one can make a huge difference in the resultant quality by doing more or less well in any/all of these areas. An obvious point to many for sure, but I though it worth restating...
 
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Ted Spencer said:
@Kholi: it occurred to me that I should clarify that, at least IMO, story/script quality matters are completely genre-independent; a screwball comedy is just as capable as a serious drama of qualifying as such. More specifically, there's absolutely no reason in my mind why "Superseeds" done well (as my hunch-ometer tells me it will be) wouldn't qualify in the great story/script department. Good writing is good writing...
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Since it's not a movie yet, I'm going to use that fact to avoid saying what I really think about it, even though it's my own writing and directing.

I will say that I am not at a level to be considered even a decent writer.

Infer what you want from that! LOL
 
roei z said:
about "Deuce" trailer:
from what i remember when seeing it a week ago (for me, a good trailer SHOULD DEFINITELY be an original, excellent "invitation"):
visual look: too videoish for this kind of story.
the trailer story itself: not intriguing for me - an "all american" regular 50's rebel set-up..
bits of scenes: again, a "i've seen it all before" feeling.
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Fair enough...like any film, it will not be everyone's cup of tea...
 
Kholi said:
I will say that I am not at a level to be considered even a decent writer.

Infer what you want from that! LOL
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Most great artists that I know (and I've known many) are as self-critical in their heart of hearts as you are. That itself doesn't make you one of course, (only time, and results, will tell), but show me a (truly) supremely confident artist, and 98% of the time, I'll show you an amateur.

Because it takes a hell of a lot of deep, honest self-assessment...just to get there in the first place...
 
Kholi said:
Adversely, you kind of just agreed that the script isn't the most important thing.
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What I'm saying is that I'm not going win to any writing awards, but I can come up with some killer stories.

Movie making is a team sport everything has to work together, just like building a house if one part is missing it just isn't a house. The script is your foundation, start with a s**tty foundation and no matter how pretty the walls the whole thing will collapse eventually.

Now you mentioned people eating rotten meat, well it isn't really rotten if they can survive eating it, it just isn't something you would eat. Just like Transformers, it is fine for what it is a popcorn flick. I can appreciate it for what it is, but I can't forgive 'Suckerpunch' for not having enough people critique the script to point out the few places that would fix the story or 'The Signal' for being confused as to whether it is a horror or a comedy and somehow getting confused in the middle, especially after the opener was so good.

You seem to think that your great camera angles will somehow make a boring story more interesting. It won't! You need to have all parts clicking or have the Transformers budget. If you get a great story, great performances, and great production values you will have a winner....maybe... That's why it's called movie magic.

Apparently though you will continue to believe that the story/script is second to everything else. I'd like to see which has more success a pretty movie with a crap script or a pretty movie with a good script.
 
Ted Spencer said:
Well, since this is the screenwriting forum, let's start with the story/script...

Understood if you need to keep it in general terms...

TIA
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since i thinks it's a great idea i already had it copyright insured ;)

first of all, i develop ideas and plots only as big as i can afford to shoot them. the story HAS to be written according to my possibilities at the moment,
so i could have total control of what i need in the story. so in that way i came up with a great micro-budget concept.
this means: 5-10 characters (1 main "hero"),
a central location for 60% of the film,
"easy to use" other external locations,
and of course focusing on deepening into the
psychological aspects of the main character for an original/interesting plot development..

it's Hebrew written so i cannot just copy/paste the synopsis, but PM me if you really like me to try translating it quickly :)
 
Chris_Keaton said:
You seem to think that your great camera angles will somehow make a boring story more interesting. It won't! You need to have all parts clicking or have the Transformers budget. If you get a great story, great performances, and great production values you will have a winner....maybe... That's why it's called movie magic.
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Success is subjective as well. Because, honestly, if you look at numbers then the idea that story is king is further dispelled.

Honestly, great camera work and proper casting will make a boring story more interesting to watch. This isn't a writers medium, movies, it's a director's medium. I'm not saying that it's going to make it good, but every case you're stating is diametric to your point.

Nobody's telling anyone anything new by saying "story is king" or what-have-you. It's not profound, it's not enlightening, it's just another filmmakers diatribe.

Apparently though you will continue to believe that the story/script is second to everything else. I'd like to see which has more success a pretty movie with a crap script or a pretty movie with a good script.
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I do believe that script is second to execution. Story and Script are not synonymous; as a self-proclaimed writer you probably already know this.

And, your scenario is kind of ... weird? Of course a "pretty movie" with a good script will win... that's not even a bet.

TO prove your absolution, wouldn't it be Pretty movie with a Bad script vs Ugly movie with a Good script?

Edit here: and execution isn't just in camera, it's in everything. From the unseen and unheard tone to the tone of sound design. That's execution, it isn't just at the lens.
 
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just watched "following"..

yea it's pre-Memento writing. it was nice. not mind blowing, and perhaps a bit simple.. but efficient for 6000$ ;)
the time mix-up "tool" really saved the story, although i could still guess the next step some time ahead..
the "extra-twist" in the end was also pretty obvious.
and i don't mind about the "soul-less" characters in the story... as i'm a pretty dark myself ;)
maybe the lack of a "deeper" lead character is the biggest flaw. Memento was a bit deeper in that department (still i didn't like it that much).
 
I don't see story and script being different. I guess if we are arguing about word choices and formatting I would say screw the script. If you write a killer story in pidgin on toilet paper you could have a great script. Remember a script is just a template for the movie. Just the start. You still need to dress it with performances and good production to have a solid finished product. I never said story was the ONLY thing, remember a King still needs his court.

Of course you can distract with pretty pictures and hell I rely on that in many of my scripts. :) But I see a lot of bad films and in the credits you will usually see 'written and directed by'. I'm not saying directors can't write or cant' come up with great stories, but a lot of 'em can't or don't think the story is important enough to give the attention it needs.

I'm working with a director now who comes up with some damn killer story ideas, but usually the execution falters because of simple writing problems. Hopefully my rewrite of his newest idea will be the success we think it can be. Luck has a big influence on success in this industry, but in many cases being good can trump this. You will never get anyone's attention with a lackluster film or even a decent one with a **** story. A producer will think, "you make some pretty pictures, but your decision making ability is ****...I mean really a cyborg love story set in the old west?"

After all is said and done making a successful film is a team sport.
 
Chris_Keaton said:
I don't see story and script being different...
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Story is what the script is about. The script is basically a bunch of ideas (good or bad) that help convey the story itself.

Of course you can distract with pretty pictures and hell I rely on that in many of my scripts. :) But I see a lot of bad films and in the credits you will usually see 'written and directed by'. I'm not saying directors can't write or cant' come up with great stories, but a lot of 'em can't or don't think the story is important enough to give the attention it needs.
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It's still a director's medium. It goes both ways, because most writers can't direct.

I'm working with a director now who comes up with some damn killer story ideas, but usually the execution falters because of simple writing problems. Hopefully my rewrite of his newest idea will be the success we think it can be. Luck has a big influence on success in this industry, but in many cases being good can trump this.
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Well, I don't believe in Luck. Just opportunity and preparation. Whole different topic, though.

You will never get anyone's attention with a lackluster film or even a decent one with a s**t story. A producer will think, "you make some pretty pictures, but your decision making ability is s**t...I mean really a cyborg love story set in the old west?"
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If it's executed properly, who's to say whether or not it would get someone's attention? In fact, haven't we seen plenty of examples of lackluster story/crap story/crap script, etc getting attention? Even short films like THE RAVEN have nothing to offer aside from visuals. But, it got someone's attention. Mark Whalberg's

So, are you basically saying that we won't get Chris Keaton's attention? Because, otherwise, it's not a true or factual statement.


After all is said and done making a successful film is a team sport.
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Something we can agree on.
 
Well put.

Gear related talks have lost a lot of appeal...

Kholi said:
Haha. Ted Spencer and I are peaceful, just something to pass the time! And, it's not gear related!

I think story is of course heaps upon mounds of important. It's pretty obvious that if you set out to make a bad story then your chances of making a good movie are much slimmer. I think I'm only just now realizing that it's almost more important, as you sort of hint on about the acting, to know how to execute. No matter how good a script is, the majority of an audience will not forgive poor execution (audio, acting, cinematography--probably in that order, too) if they're paying money to watch your material.

YouTube is a free-to-view site for the most part, so there's a LOT of forgiveness there. Start asking someone to pay for any of that and we'll see how much story is king holds up.
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Anthony Todaro said:
Mike - From a writer only point-of-view, I look for people to produce my stories, as you know... lol. I can say from experience after getting tons of reads the ones that hit, the work I do that is requested most and the ones that get optioned by independent filmmakers, are the clever low budget stories. The stories that have character and are simple to produce get the most attention.

Memento is an example I always use. That film could have been made on a shoestring with no name actors and been good. It's better because it wasn't but the story was solid. Yes it was low budget, but I'm talking NO BUDGET. It didn't feel like it was written for budget. Some of these indie films I watch are horrible. I'm talking features. Few are good and even fewer are great.

I think your post about starting with a good script is key. But the question is, what's a good script? The answer is the best story you can afford to make, IMO. Once I started to consider easy production and no budget in my writing it was much much harder. This is a good thing. It challenges one to find cleverness in plain site rather than relying on amazing effects. The film BLOWUP is another one I look to for inspiration. Not that it's the most amazing film on the planet, it's a great one, but that's not why. It's intriguing. It's known for being an original in so many ways. The idea is so simple but the way it was executed on the page and in camera is nothing less than brilliant. So brilliant, De Palma just had to 'borrow' it. Lol.

It's in the writing. Find a writer or a story that is nothing less than amazing. Don't even think about rolling one frame until you are captivated by the script. If the story hurts you or affected you in any moving way that's a good sign it's worth shooting.

I've seen that in your shorts so I know you know. I'm just saying that there are smart writers out there with this in mind. Before I sit down to outline a feature length script, I already know what the range of budget is in my head just by the story. A space opera can't be done for $1k. It could but it's not going to live up to the competition. If you have something ingenious on your hands it might revolutionize but the odds are against you. Mainly in your viewership. An audience watching a movie with some epic looking box art will be disappointed when they see the finished product and it's not what they were expecting.

I know my budget going in, even if it's a spec. A screenplay is like having a child. Some people plan for it, some people don't. The last thing any filmmaker wants is a amazing concept that can't execute without money. I just saw a movie called, ELIMINATION. Good example of a cool concept and an extremely failed production. I think most of the problems with it could have been dealt with on the page.

A clever story that has complex and interesting characters will always win over effects. Your gut is dead on. Go with it. Trust your writing or trust your writer. Get those pages to a point where they blow you away. Tedious attention to the story will pay off ten fold when it comes time to get distribution, IMO.
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I just wanted to touch on this post. Really well put, Anthony. I think we are on the same page. (No script pun intended)
Maybe I should get you to help me write the feature. :)
 
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