The SONY FS-700 & The Odyssey7 - Let´s hope to see some affordable HQ-Output!

Dear Cuervo,

Thank you for posting that information.

I feel that HD-SDI is always a 10-Bit or 12-Bit word, never 8-bit.

In our testing of cameras, using very sophisticated HD-SDI analyzers which we have in our lab, we never saw an 8-Bit word, but we did see 8-Bits in a 10-Bit word.

I feel that the Sound Devices Pix 240 is sophisticated enough to report that the data is actually 8-Bits even if it is in a 10-Bit word.

When we have seen in the past is that the two least significant bits, in the 10-Bit word were zeros, from certain cameras.

The Sony EX1, EX1R and EX3 had 10-Bits in a 10-Bit word.

Respectfully,


Dan Keaton
Convergent Design
 
cuervo said:
FWIW....
The data screen on my Sound Devices Pix240 says I'm getting 8-bit from the SDI port on my FS700. While I'm capable of recording 10-bit with this recorder, the feed from the camera is only 8-bit. If it was 8-bit in a 10 bit word, I suspect my screen readout would say 10-bit.
Click to expand...

yes, current FS700 only has 8bit data. AVCHD(means 8bit420) internally and uncompressed 8bit422 externally, it's confirmed by Sony year ago.

hope we will have 10bit422 out this time!
 
We have this topic going in more than one thread, so I will re-post this here:


This is now on Sony's site? Is this news? Also does anyone have an address and know the rules for sending the FS700 for the hardware upgrade?

http://pro.sony.com/bbsc/ssr/product-NEXFS700UK/

The NEX-FS700UK started as a 4K sensor Super 35mm camcorder capable of a vast array of high frame rate (HFR) and recording options to the superb on-board AVC-HD recording capability. The NEX-FS700U now features an upgrade that enables full 2K RAW up to 240fps or 4K RAW up to 60fps recording to Sony’s AXS-R5 RAW recorder. This “open architecture” update also enables 2K & 4K recordings onto compatible third party recorders.

Upgraded NEX-FS700UK camcorders now record Linear RAW with 12-bit precision to the HXR-IFR5 RAW interface plus AXS-R5 memory recorder (sold separately). This system enables continuous, FULL 2K resolution recordings at: 23.98, 25, 30, 50, 60, 100, 120, 200 & 240fps. It is also capable of continuous FULL 4K RAW recoding at: 23.98, 25, 30, 50 & 60fps. This system can also record 120fps at 4K resolution in 4 second “bursts” that result in 20 second at 24fps. It is possible to simultaneously record to the AVCHD format (except HFR mode).

Convergent Design’s Odyssey 7Q records 2K, uncompressed: Cinema DNG up to 240fps and 4K DPX up to 30fps when connected to the FS700U.

The upgrade also enhances other key creative controls; increasing the camera’s ISO range; from 320 ~ 20,000 to 320 ~ 64,000. It also adds S Log2 and 800% 709 gamma curves widely enhancing its exposure latitude HD capability.
 
Hi Dan,

Is it possible to have more infos about 4K dpx format with the Odyssey? Im very confused about uncompressed vs raw. Also, what would be the bitrate in that mode? Would be helpful to know this, especially regarding disk space and media management. Thanks very much for all the infos you already gave, and for the time you spend with us.

Alan
 
Alan Nogues said:
Hi Dan,

Is it possible to have more infos about 4K dpx format with the Odyssey? Im very confused about uncompressed vs raw. Also, what would be the bitrate in that mode? Would be helpful to know this, especially regarding disk space and media management. Thanks very much for all the infos you already gave, and for the time you spend with us.

Alan
Click to expand...

Good quition and how about the sound when recording dpx format?

Thanks
Bader
 
This is the only confirmed info as per Michael's post above:

Michael Erlewine said:
This is now on Sony's site? Is this news? Also does anyone have an address and know the rules for sending the FS700 for the hardware upgrade?

http://pro.sony.com/bbsc/ssr/product-NEXFS700UK/

The NEX-FS700UK started as a 4K sensor Super 35mm camcorder capable of a vast array of high frame rate (HFR) and recording options to the superb on-board AVC-HD recording capability. The NEX-FS700U now features an upgrade that enables full 2K RAW up to 240fps or 4K RAW up to 60fps recording to Sony’s AXS-R5 RAW recorder. This “open architecture” update also enables 2K & 4K recordings onto compatible third party recorders.

Upgraded NEX-FS700UK camcorders now record Linear RAW with 12-bit precision to the HXR-IFR5 RAW interface plus AXS-R5 memory recorder (sold separately). This system enables continuous, FULL 2K resolution recordings at: 23.98, 25, 30, 50, 60, 100, 120, 200 & 240fps. It is also capable of continuous FULL 4K RAW recoding at: 23.98, 25, 30, 50 & 60fps. This system can also record 120fps at 4K resolution in 4 second “bursts” that result in 20 second at 24fps. It is possible to simultaneously record to the AVCHD format (except HFR mode).

Convergent Design’s Odyssey 7Q records 2K, uncompressed: Cinema DNG up to 240fps and 4K DPX up to 30fps when connected to the FS700U.

The upgrade also enhances other key creative controls; increasing the camera’s ISO range; from 320 ~ 20,000 to 320 ~ 64,000. It also adds S Log2 and 800% 709 gamma curves widely enhancing its exposure latitude HD capability.
Click to expand...
 
hey dan i haven't seen anybody ask this but maybe i missed it. will the 7q be able to do anything for the highest frame rates of the fs? 480 and 960fps?
 
here's the another small test i did with S-Log2 equipped FS700, the test camera i had borrowed from Sony Japan.

ISO test with one candle :
https://vimeo.com/67725129

banding test with changing aperture :
https://vimeo.com/67727948

those are extremely under/overexposed footages for checking the noise and banding produced by "S-Log2 in 8bit world" issue. i know many people talked about this nonsensical function but i personally am trying to find the way bit more useful...or just pay $$$$ to get raw recorder :)

please grab the original ProRes file and see the noise and banding stuff 8bit recording produced.

Cheers,


freiheit
 
The banding (or lack of) with the S-log2 is great! It is a real issue I run into even in light friendlier environment with internal AVCHD right now.
 
Dear Friends,

We are wanting to shoot some more footage, at different frame rates, and under different conditions.

We may (or may not) have a solution to what Adam Wilt found.

But, we have discussed this internally, and we hope to have a great solution for 2K up to 60 fps.

This is something that we are going to implement and test, to prove that our theory and implementation is correct, prior to promising this.

There is another possible solution that we will be testing for footage from 60 to 240 fps.

Please rest assured that we will do everything in our power to resolve this issue, if it is in our means to do so, with the very technical tools and processing power that we have built into the Odyssey7Q.

Respectfully,


Dan Keaton
Convergent Design
 
olgagroza said:
Well. Adam Wilt testing FS700 in 4K RAW and I see
degradation resolution in 2K mode in Super Slo-Mo.
HD AVCHD 24p vs RAW-2K 240p

So... Odyssey7Q will make RAW 2K in slomo the same poor?
What can you say Dan?

best reg
Olga
Click to expand...

This is very bad news. What ever happened to "no windowing, no artefacts". I can't understand how that can be said with such confidence and then turn out to be false.

I appreciate the effort your team is going through Dan, and I will be interested to see what solution there might be for this issue. It's just that (in my opinion) most people would be using the Odyssey for its 2K. Now that 2K is crippled, that jump in quality that people were expecting is going to be much less impressive. Raw yes, but no aliasing or other artefacts? No. That was the main reason for me to get the 2k raw recording option.

Unfortunate. But we will see what happens.
 
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From what I understand, 2K is no more crippled than the 1080 240 fps currently is... We're not losing anything by using the Odyssey, we're just not gaining the clarity that the 4K output would provide.

Also, the degradation only occurs with the Super Slo-Mo. From what I've read, the general 24-60fps 2K recording modes will not have these issues.

While I'd love to get access to the 4K stream (even compressed) to get a crisp 240 fps, I still expect the Odyssey to be a fantastic external recorder. I'm just hoping, as Dan has hinted that they're working on, that CD can get a 10-12 bit 422 (or 444, even) recording from the 2K RAW stream. That's what I'm most wanting in an external recorder right now - a way to get better than the 8-bit the camera sends out now.
 
Dan, sort of off topic question: I have had trouble calibrating my OLED smallhd monitor. Any word on calibration accuracy of your panel/software? Thanks!
 
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