The Odd Squad

This short oozed quality. A pleasure to watch and had a smile on my face most of the way. The only thing that pulled me out briefly (as others have mentioned) was a bit of the ADR. We were outside but it sounded like we were inside.

Great job overall - you've got a bright bright future.
 
yeah I'll see you there dood

I'll hook you up with those settings next couple of days -- gotta writting deadline and I'd have to get out the camera, transcaribe the scene settings, whine, whine, whine.
 
Jack Daniel Stanley said:
yeah I'll see you there dood

I'll hook you up with those settings next couple of days -- gotta writting deadline and I'd have to get out the camera, transcaribe the scene settings, whine, whine, whine.
Click to expand...

want some cheese with that whine?

take your time! no rush! if you get to it, you can just get it to me on Sunday.

Thanks!

-Robert
 
Ought2bCommitted said:
Hey Jack-

So how about those camera settings? :furious3:
.....
Click to expand...

here ya go dude!

ODD SQUAD
LENSES
1. Anamorphic for establishing, soak up the set shots, and green screen shots.
2. Letus 35mm adaptor with a Nikkor 50mm f1.4 lens for close ups and mediums – basically any time I could
3. Century Wide angle for the 2 shot in the car.
4. Stock lens for moving guerilla shots with no focus puller.

SETTINGS
  • DETAIL LEVEL +7 (cranked to compensate for Letus softening)
  • V DETAIL LEVEL +7 (cranked to compensate for Letus softening)
  • DETAIL CORING +5 (high to minimize noise caused by Letus and sharpening, not full so as not to soften image further)
  • CHROMA LEVEL +7 (to get as much info in camera, and adding saturation in post can add noise, whereas you can always de-saturate easily)
  • CHROMA PHASE 0
  • COLOR TEMP +2 (to offset the magenta shift that is more prevalent with chroma cranked)
  • MASTER PED -12
  • A. IRIS LEVEL -3 (low to keep gain down and minimize noise)
  • GAMMA CINE-LIKE (lowest noise setting to offset Letus and sharpening)
  • KNEE MID
  • MATRIX NORM (lowest noise setting to offset Letus and sharpening)
  • SKIN TONE DTL ON (hoping it would help with noise)
  • V DETAIL FREQ THIN (sharpness)
  • Progressive 24p ADVANCED
Was gonna back the detail off for non Letus shots but it was just too crazy on the first day of shooting so I shot stock lens stuff with these settings too and just kept them no matter what lens I used.

SHED
LENSES
Entirely shot with the Anamorphic Adaptor except for the shot of the Mom and Daughter walking away from the shed.

I was pretty happy with these settings except that the camera was very warm with the chroma cranked even when correctly white balanced.

Also with the Thin Line Setting and the Anamorphic, we got some dancing lines in the herringbone blazer.

SETTINGS
  • DETAIL LEVEL -5
  • V DETAIL LEVEL -2
  • DETAIL CORING +3
  • CHROMA LEVEL +5
  • CHROMA PHASE 0
  • COLOR TEMP 0
  • MASTER PED -12
  • A. IRIS LEVEL -4
  • GAMMA CINE-LIKE V
  • MATRIX ENRICHED
  • SKIN TONE DTL ON
  • V DETAIL FREQ THIN
  • Progressive 24p ADVANCED
 
Jack, some questions:

First, why didn't you just program the different scene settings in advance for the lens you'd be using? Then you could just switch to Scene 4, Scene File Setting 5, etc.

Master Pedestal to -12 ... what does that tend to look like vs. having it set to +12, etc. I thought having the pedestal in the negative REALLY crushes the blacks?

A. Iris Level -3 ... I guess I'm backwards or confused on this. Is that stepping the light down, or opening it up further? If you're saying less noise, then I'm assuming it's opening up the camera further ... yet does not act like a gain & induce noise?

Gamma CINE LIKE - I would think Normal would be the least noisiest, but it's not? Is this from Barry's or someone else's instructions or actual results you've tested?

Skin Detail On - I would also select this, but not from a reduced noise stand vs. just hoping that it would help bring out that much more detail from an already softened picture because of the adapter. Have you tested with it on and off to see if there's a difference?

Sorry for all the Q's, but appreciate you posting these! Just want to understand some of the why's a little better.
 
I am also wondering why I don't have all of these settings, like detail coring... what's that? I cannot find that setting in my camera.
 
Brandon, go into your Scene File settings, and that's where you'll adjust it ... top choice in the main menu, I believe.

Just make sure you go to the VERY end of that menu after your adjustments, so you can save & overwrite the scene file setting ... otherwise, once you turn your camera off & on, it's all reset back to what you had it before.
 
Envision said:
Brandon, go into your Scene File settings, and that's where you'll adjust it ... top choice in the main menu, I believe.

Just make sure you go to the VERY end of that menu after your adjustments, so you can save & overwrite the scene file setting ... otherwise, once you turn your camera off & on, it's all reset back to what you had it before.
Click to expand...

Ok, I'll look again tomorrow. I know where all the settings are, but I could swear I don't have all the ones listed here available to me.
 
Envision said:
Jack, some questions:

First, why didn't you just program the different scene settings in advance for the lens you'd be using? Then you could just switch to Scene 4, Scene File Setting 5, etc.
Click to expand...
Like I said the first day was so crazy and I just didn't have time to think about it. The day before, my GF totalled our van/grip truck and thay blew 16 hours of the day and I still had props to build and paint. So I didn't get to set down with barry's book and DVD / or look up my settings for Shed and see what setting I used for the Ananmorphic.

So since I already shot on anamorphic and stock on day one, I just kept the settings uniform. One of the actors was 4 hours late to set due to make up and it was just crazy and we barely got it in before we lost the light.

Of course it would have been best to program f5 for the ananmorphic and f4 for the stock and use f6 for the letus ... so just error.

Envision said:
Master Pedestal to -12 ... what does that tend to look like vs. having it set to +12, etc. I thought having the pedestal in the negative REALLY crushes the blacks?
Click to expand...
this should be a sticky everywhere or be a banner somewhere
http://www.dvxuser.com/articles/MP/
Notice I shot both Shed and ODD Squad this way. Did you watch my BTS on SHED?
The lights are very bright but the image on the tape is dark and conytrasty. Master Ped along with gamma curves done in post is how this is achieved. NBC shooter said dropping the master ped that much was a revalation to him after watching the BTS for Shed. Basically it gives you a very contrasty image that to me is more filmic and more asthetically pleasing, and as you can see in ODD Squad there is plenty of details in the shadows. Disjecta shoots with his down to -5 or -6 I think.

So it increases contrats without adding noise like some S curve gamma tweaking can.

Envision said:
A. Iris Level -3 ... I guess I'm backwards or confused on this. Is that stepping the light down, or opening it up further? If you're saying less noise, then I'm assuming it's opening up the camera further ... yet does not act like a gain & induce noise?
Click to expand...
My logic was a little flawed on this one in retrospect. Yes it stops down, in fact when you use Cine Like gamma it defaults to -3 to under expose slightly since there is no blowout protection in CINE LIKE.

But my thinking was that it allows the camera to accept lower light without engaging any sort of autogain or anything. But its sort of irrelevant because I rarely use the auto iris.

But you are right, for a scene that should be open the auto iris would instead be at llike f.3 so it would be darker, but then you can manually pop it up.

I think the camera just auto set it to -3 since I used CINE LIKE and I thought I set it that way to keep the gain from coming on, but I was confused 2 months after the fact when I was writing the settings down.

Envision said:
Gamma CINE LIKE - I would think Normal would be the least noisiest, but it's not? Is this from Barry's or someone else's instructions or actual results you've tested?
Click to expand...
For the MATRIX yes -- NORM is the least noise inducing.
FOr the GAMMA however only CINE-LIKE D is known to add noise and CINE LIKE give the most range from the darkest dark to the brightest bright as per barry's book.

This is from disjecta's FAQ on his webpage
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]"I changed [the Matrix] to NORM and made sure gamma was set to Cine-Like (not D or V) and the noise level during low light shooting is drastically reduced."

[/FONT]
Envision said:
Skin Detail On - I would also select this, but not from a reduced noise stand vs. just hoping that it would help bring out that much more detail from an already softened picture because of the adapter. Have you tested with it on and off to see if there's a difference?
Click to expand...
Skin detail ON does not enhance "detail" in the skin, on the contrary it applies a slight blur to anythying it percieves as skin tones to smooth out wrinkles and such.

Envision said:
Sorry for all the Q's, but appreciate you posting these! Just want to understand some of the why's a little better.
Click to expand...
 
I've got a question, you said you shot with the me66/k6 mic. Did you shoot with roll off on or off? (that red slider switch on your mic). I've been shooting with it on, but that's how it was when I got it and never attempted to turn it off. It actually sounds better with it off.
 
Ok... all I've got settings wise is

Detail Level: +1
Chroma Level: +3
Chroma Phase: 0
Color Temp: 0
Master Ped: -6
A. Iris Level: 0
Gamma: Cine-Like
Skin Tone DTL: Off
Matrix: Norm
V Detail Freq: Thick

No detail coring setting here. What's the deal? By the way, I am trying to get the best settings for the upcoming kid's show we're shooting in two days. I'll be shooting it 30P.
 
I read (looked at the pretty pictures since there were like 8 words in Jarred's article) the master pedestal article and was confused as to the two columns. They reference a setup of 0 and 7.5. I'm sure it is something simple but I don't know what they mean. Enlighten me please.:dankk2:

Quoted from Jarred
"yes Leigh, although it doesnt really matter, everyone that knows anything will recommend you shoot DV with 0 setup. Then adjust your master ped to whatever you want."
 
dj200423 said:
I've got a question, you said you shot with the me66/k6 mic. Did you shoot with roll off on or off? (that red slider switch on your mic). I've been shooting with it on, but that's how it was when I got it and never attempted to turn it off. It actually sounds better with it off.
Click to expand...

It should always be off unless you are in windy situation or maybe on a car with a rumbly egine or something.

That roll off switch just rolls frequencies off at the low end of the spectrum. It cuts frequencies that don't overlap human speech or do so minimally, but are at the heart of wind thump and some other basey noise.

So yeah to get the full frequency response always use it set to off.
 
briceman said:
Ok... all I've got settings wise is

Detail Level: +1
Chroma Level: +3
Chroma Phase: 0
Color Temp: 0
Master Ped: -6
A. Iris Level: 0
Gamma: Cine-Like
Skin Tone DTL: Off
Matrix: Norm
V Detail Freq: Thick

No detail coring setting here. What's the deal? By the way, I am trying to get the best settings for the upcoming kid's show we're shooting in two days. I'll be shooting it 30P.
Click to expand...

It's because you have the 100, not the "A".
 
Alex DePew said:
I read (looked at the pretty pictures since there were like 8 words in Jarred's article) the master pedestal article and was confused as to the two columns. They reference a setup of 0 and 7.5. I'm sure it is something simple but I don't know what they mean. Enlighten me please.:dankk2:

Quoted from Jarred
"yes Leigh, although it doesnt really matter, everyone that knows anything will recommend you shoot DV with 0 setup. Then adjust your master ped to whatever you want."
Click to expand...

The set up refers to the absolute black level. The rest of the world uses a setup of Zero (superblack) and North America NTSC uses 7.5 (black) The setup of 7.5 sometimes called "The Pedistal" and then can be manipulated via teh Master Ped or Master pedestal.

And what Jarred said is right -- the setup really ony applied to ananlog equipment and gets some extra play in at the dark end of the scale because its a cheat -- it boosts what's percieved as black. But shooting digital you should always use the full range which is a setup of 0.

So you can forget about the setup and what it means -- just set it to 0 then play with your Master Ped.
 
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