The New F

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Luis Caffesse said:
Sony has announced a couple of great sounding cameras - to be sure. Both of these sound like something I'd love to shoot with.
But until they release 5K raw on board in a package the size of an Epic at frame rates up to 96fps complete with swappable smart lens mounts, I don't think anyone has gotten kicked in the balls.

The market is definitely growing, competition is heating up a bit... and all of this is great for us (the users) - but I don't see a 'death blow' here.
(especially considering we don't know the pricepoint yet).
Just my 2 cents.
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I'll wager $18,000 for the F5 solo, just the brain. Which happens to have an ND wheel. F55 happens to HAVE GLOBAL SHUTTER.
 
vanvideo said:
Actually, the AXS-R5 2K/4K RAW recorder for the F5/55 is also the 4K recorder for the FS700, via a new interface adapter, according to the Sony press release.
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Ah thanks, I missed that note. So I guess the question is answered. Though I'm still curious what the FS700 firmware update that adds support for this interface will involve...

And it will definitely be interesting to see how the 4k RAW from the F55/F5 differs from the FS700 4k RAW using the same recorder. I wonder if the sensors are the same/similar... FS700 lacks a lot of the gamma/color enhancements of the F5, but in RAW mode, they may be quite similar...

Also will be interesting to see if FS700 will also support 2k raw modes, since the FS700 seems to be able to process 2k 240fps in its SSM mode, which might translate to 2k 240fps RAW, whereas the F5 spec is only 2k 120fps.
 
my gues is about 28000 for f-5 , vuefinder. shoulder mount and 1 tera of media
probably 40 for f55 with same setup
 
You can bet one thing, the cost of the F55 over the F5 will around the same price as the AXS-R5 external recorder itself, or perhaps slightly less.. which I can see costing $10k (rumors said $20k)

So:

F5 $18,000 ?
F55 $23,000 ?
AXS-R5 $15,000 ?
 
bill totolo said:
I thought they were gunning for the c300/c500 in price. We'll see.
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That would be interesting, but they certainly are offering a lot more than Canon's offerings. Price and feature-wise, seems like the C300 is closer to the F3, and the F5 would be C500 territory, whereas the F55 would justifiably be even more.

As for the RAW recorder, who knows... Sony isn't known for making their recorders affordable, though. I certainly hope it isn't anywhere near the cost of a camera, but that's probably hoping for a lot. Then again, it sounds like the R5 unit is uncompressed 16bit RAW only, which works out to 384MBps for 4kHD, which is pretty unmanageable and unworkable in my mind since that's 20min of footage per 512GB card. That's just too much data for any set I usually work on...
 
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nyvz said:
That would be interesting, but they certainly are offering a lot more than Canon's offerings. Price and feature-wise, seems like the C300 is closer to the F3, and the F5 would be C500 territory, whereas the F55 would justifiably even more.
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Ned already said C300 and C500... price should be announced tomorrow.

I think we already know Canon's offerings were a bit underwhelming spec-wise... shouldn't be a surprise that they're getting out-spec'd at close to the same bracket.
 
Kholi said:
Ned already said C300 and C500... price should be announced tomorrow.

I think we already know Canon's offerings were a bit underwhelming spec-wise... shouldn't be a surprise that they're getting out-spec'd at close to the same bracket.
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On second thought, I feel the F5 HD ready will go at $15-16,000. Look at all the cameras they have released and the competitive price they carry. Fully loaded F5, $22,000.
 
the bigest looser in that game right now is alexa
sony shoot hight tv market more then the epic users as noone in my reagion even think to shoot with epic and waist money on transfers for tv . and tv + web is 99% of the world wide work
 
tomer said:
the bigest looser in that game right now is alexa
sony shoot hight tv market more then the epic users as noone in my reagion even think to shoot with epic and waist money on transfers for tv . and tv + web is 99% of the world wide work
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Not necessarily, TV productions LOVE Alexa's 4:4:4 ProRes workflow - and there's substantial amounts of money saved in the speed of that workflow. Unless the SR 4:4:4 recording on the F5 and F55 can be run through post equally as rapidly, Alexa will still have an important advantage.

But good lord, is it ever an exciting time to be making motion pictures for a living!
 
Grug said:
Not necessarily, TV productions LOVE Alexa's 4:4:4 ProRes workflow - and there's substantial amounts of money saved in the speed of that workflow. Unless the SR 4:4:4 recording on the F5 and F55 can be run through post equally as rapidly, Alexa will still have an important advantage.
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I'm pretty sure we'll be able to load HDCamSR files direct into Resolve and Avid with no issue and play realtime. That has been the main advantage of the Alexa for us (even with REDROCKET, a fast 8-core and a good GPU we never could get 100% non-stuttery playback from Epic footage) and if the F5 / F55 does it too... awesome.

Grug said:
But good lord, is it ever an exciting time to be making motion pictures for a living!
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So true!

nyvz said:
As for the RAW recorder, who knows... Sony isn't known for making their recorders affordable, though. I certainly hope it isn't anywhere near the cost of a camera, but that's probably hoping for a lot.
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Haha, me too!

nyvz said:
Then again, it sounds like the R5 unit is uncompressed 16bit RAW only, which works out to 384MBps for 4kHD, which is pretty unmanageable and unworkable in my mind since that's 20min of footage per 512GB card. That's just too much data for any set I usually work on...
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It is approx 3.6 : 1 compression according to the FDTimes article:
http://www.fdtimes.com/2012/10/30/sony-f55-and-f5/

I think that's the same compression ratio as used by the F65.

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com
 
I know they won't but they keep throwing around game changer. Make the f5 close to 10 grand and you truly have a game changer. Dumb dream but here's to hoping.
 
I speculate 17K for F5 with mount but no raw recorder, 22k-25k for f55, again with lens mount and no recorder. Global shutter indeed sounds great, but, sincerely, as a motorsport shooter, the rolling shutter has not been much of an issue with the Epic. Heard the Scarlet is a bit slower but in the Epic camp it works great. In flash scenarios I hardly get the "half Frame" nightmare of, say , DSLR's- but it happens.

The Epic is safe and still better value if my predictions are true, but the Scarlet, it really needs a bump at least in 2K frame rates to be competitive. Love the Highlight rolloff of the MX sensor, and am confortable with the dynamic range- but of course the more the merrier!

Lets see some images in users (not high end production) hands. Then, lets judge. Would love to play with a sample of Sony 4K raw just for comparison sake!

And, by the way, the Epic and Scarlet are dropping in price. Win win situation for everybody.
 
Well, you never know and don't hold me to this...

But I have a hunch that the F55 puts down a better 4K master than Epic.

Just... a hunch.
 
SPZ said:
I speculate 17K for F5 with mount but no raw recorder, 22k-25k for f55, again with lens mount and no recorder. Global shutter indeed sounds great, but, sincerely, as a motorsport shooter, the rolling shutter has not been much of an issue with the Epic. Heard the Scarlet is a bit slower but in the Epic camp it works great. In flash scenarios I hardly get the "half Frame" nightmare of, say , DSLR's- but it happens.

The Epic is safe and still better value if my predictions are true, but the Scarlet, it really needs a bump at least in 2K frame rates to be competitive. Love the Highlight rolloff of the MX sensor, and am confortable with the dynamic range- but of course the more the merrier!

Lets see some images in users (not high end production) hands. Then, lets judge. Would love to play with a sample of Sony 4K raw just for comparison sake!

And, by the way, the Epic and Scarlet are dropping in price. Win win situation for everybody.
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I'm not liking the ENG form factor of the new F's. I think I prefer the DSLR style of the RED's. But we'll see. The New F's seem to be modular enough.
 
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