The new camera body from RED: Weapon

Jay Birch said:
It's so embarrassingly transparent. Same with the C300 launch.
Yes, it gets us talking, but as the dust settles to the ground, it will likely be filmed on an Arri.

Maybe it is because i'm European, but the bullish "we are at war" approach of RED just doesn't sit right with me. Especially when a billionaire posts it from his private island. They are a mature company now, they are part of the establishment. Very much at the upper end.
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I'm not sure why announcing a product to throw off the attention on a competitors product should be embarrassing. Sounds like a pretty solid business move to me.

You know, from the guy who started designing handgrips in his garage and leveraged that to be able to afford his own island and upend the cinema market. Dude's been at "war" his entire life - he just happens to win a lot of the time. Don't hate the player, hate the game.

If you don't like what he's selling don't buy it, but you don't have to crucify someone for brashness either.
 
Joncarr said:
Sucks for your friend but get a better agent. The only people that get a "free" rental and it's only the camera brain, are the directors and DP's who work closely with RED to develop the cameras. People like Michael bay, David Fincher, Steven sotorberg, and of course Ridley Scott and their DP's. They get the beta cameras first cause they put it to work and find out what works and what doesn't work before camera goes into production. So no one at RED tries to convince a producer to shoot RED. Maybe a producer wanted you to use a RED, and it's your right to decline. But don't take it personally and take your time online for Christ sakes to be angry at a camera company, not that they couldn't give 2 shits. There not canon and Sony. ;) (joke) they are the camera company that want to be in your face and if you can't handle it, then just walk away. You seem to really hate RED? Try not to be bias, I'm not a fan of canon or Sony. But I don't read threads and try to bash them everytime I see a opportunity.
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Way too many things here to respond to or correct.....but I have been in this business for a bit (notice my start date in my avatar) and I don't post things that aren't true......


Jim Martin
 
Gillvane said:
No real specs yet on what will be inside red weapon.
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There never are. Not for years. Need I say "scarlet"? This is the Red way -- announce vapor three years in advance. Why does this tired old marketing tactic still work on you people?

If it's not for sale, it doesn't exist.
 
Bruce Watson said:
There never are. Not for years. Need I say "scarlet"? This is the Red way -- announce vapor three years in advance. Why does this tired old marketing tactic still work on you people?

If it's not for sale, it doesn't exist.
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I think it's gonna be at NAB. That's coming up pretty fast.
 
Liam Hall said:
It's not. What is embarrassing is all people writing "wow" when they don't realise they've been had again.
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The honest truth is...all consumers are being had most of the time. Its business...and the house always wins. Our job is to figure out our economics to win with what is available to us. Even great deals are just very well timed business strategy. RED is by far not the most guilty of this. They are just on par with most...with the exception being strong innovators. If anything...they are more lenient and actually listen to their customers. Thats better than most.
 
Obviously Weapon announcement was timed to coincide with Alexa mini , I suspect in a very rushed fashion to wave the flag and say Red is still innovating & not sitting on the fence. It seems some are arguing against this adaptability, this willingness to push with new ideas , concepts. In other words do what the others are doing and drip feed features to the market maximising profits limiting innovation.

IMO the only reason we have mini is because Red developed the DSMC and it was capturing major share on certain types of work ...so Arri pushes back. The only reason we are no longer paying for 1/2 million dollar film camera systems is because Red created the Red One....so Arri pushes back with the "Iconic & Now" camera Alexa. What ever Weapon is ...this is Red trying to push back against Arri . Win or loose may the innovation continue ...this year NAB will be very interesting .
 
Ebrahim Saadawi said:
Not everyone is as cool or understanding as US/UK officers who speak English and know what a camera can look like. So yes It's a real concern here and deserves a discussion at least.

Maybe make bodies/cases of the new camera without logos/names at all upon request?
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Given the choice I'd pick an Arri over a RED for most any project, but that doesn't mean REDs aren't fine cameras. However I am in the camp that considers "Weapon" a very stupid name. I've been thru the Carnet dance all around the world, & it's often unpleasant, & occasionally hostile, so why complicate it with a juvenile naming convention?
 
Liam Hall said:
It's not. What is embarrassing is all people writing "wow" when they don't realise they've been had again.
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I'm afraid I don't understand your point Liam. How have they "been had again"? There are no reservations being taken at the moment, there is no master switch making MX or Dragons try and turn into an oven glove when you power them up on set. There is no one peering out of bushes when you unload the camera truck. All RED did is give people a heads up that a new camera is coming down the line, and if they want to upgrade (which you don't have to do!) just make sure you go Dragon before NAB. That's all. That's it.

There never are. Not for years. Need I say "scarlet"? This is the Red way -- announce vapor three years in advance. Why does this tired old marketing tactic still work on you people?

If it's not for sale, it doesn't exist.
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RED definitely announces products before they are ready and shipping, yes. But vaporware? Come on.

The holier-then-thou attitude is tiresome. It reeks of nose snubbing superiority and I don't understand what people get from it. Like, do you feel good that you vocalize your disagreement with how one company markets its products? Hey, there are a certain group of people who shout till they are blue in the face in support of RED, it's equally as tiresome. But really, take a step back and look at the product. No good for you? Fine, move on and shoot something else. I don't know, I think being that passionate about something is a lot more healthy then condemning something you do not have to buy. But who knows, I may be off my rocker.
 
Bruce Watson said:
There never are. Not for years. Need I say "scarlet"? This is the Red way -- announce vapor three years in advance. Why does this tired old marketing tactic still work on you people?


If it's not for sale, it doesn't exist.
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I don't think a phrase with the words "you people" has ever been welcomed by anyone but the person who uses it. It's especially bad when trying to convey an opinion.

Are you a RED owner/operator? What was your bad experience outside of your opinions on marketing tactics?
 
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William_Robinette said:
Don't hate the player, hate the game.
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Thank you "Ryan", from "The Office".


Anyway. Too bad Arri is now making Red even less useful as a product line. I'm glad though as I've had nothing but problems when using rental Reds in the past. We just don't build electronics that well, I hate to say. Japan and Germany will probably always lead the way in these areas.
 
It's just the same beta camera they have always had, just version 256......Just be sure to bring your back up "weapon" an Arri.
 
VinceinLA said:
Whatever. Red is basically dead. It was interesting 8 years ago but Arri won that race by far. Now with the Arri Mini, professionals won't be looking elsewhere for size or anything else.
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Funniest post of the night folks…give this guy a round of applause.

Seriously, the amount of Red hate on this forum is embarrassing, given that founder of DVXuser/REDuser is now President of RED.
 
William_Robinette said:
I'm not sure why announcing a product to throw off the attention on a competitors product should be embarrassing. Sounds like a pretty solid business move to me.
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It can be a good tactical move once. However, if you do it everytime, then people know that you are sore.

Remember the Scarlet launch to coincide C300 launch? The words uttered like "we bring a bazooka to a knife fight" still makes me squirm. And who had the last laugh? C300 became a huge hit.

RED's nomenclature is based on its tactics. It wants to create a loyal group of people like a "cult". I repeat, Cult not a brotherhood. So all the branding and communication uses the words like Bomb EVF, Bomb Squad, Fire Chief etc etc. As happens in a cult, the members stick with you till they have their last drop of blood. RED wants to have such a loyal group of people who will keep on buying again and again. So they won't mind paying a premium for things including accessories. On the other hand, a Sony buyer can tomorrow buy Panasonic and then Arri or Canon etc.

However, I must admit, even by their standards "Weapon" is the lousiest name given so far. First camera was RED one. Then came EPIC. Fine, the EPIC signified that this camera is the top of the game. Then it started going downhill as far as branding is concerned. Dragon is supposed to breathe fire... However, the moment you add it to your Epic saying Epic Dragon, the meaning of the imagery is lost. Dragon also evokes archaic imagery. As opposed to Epic which is such a positive name. We all love our Epics. Do we love dragons? No. We are taught to fear dragons. So on a psychological level, the branding went downhill. And now this weapon. Is it an ice pic? Is it a knife? Is it an Atom bomb? To me this name "Weapon" is a damp squib.

A brand which is seen as a rebel when it started, mellows down with age. Now RED is not a rebel anymore. It is one of the Establishment. It is one of the big camera companies. It is not a Black Magic or AJA launching a new 4K camera. So the imagery which had served the purpose for RED in the beginning will not work now and hence needs to be hauled up and changed.
 
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